landings outside runways

[Marlboro_2002]

Hi there,



Just wondering, do you always have to land on runways? Is ther any problem if you land on roads, or even a beach? I am assuming that everything is working perfectly and that there is no emergency




Thanks,


Marlboro_2002

[Dude~]

Hmmm...

Yes, you can land anywhere, even the moon... if you have the owners permision.

Try getting surrey county coucil to give you permission to land on the M3, I think not!:cool:

[FlyingForFun]

Also, remember that the 1500' rule still applies on approach and departure to unlicensed airfields, so you can't land an aeroplane in or near a built up area except at a licensed airfield in the UK, even with the owners permission.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Also, remember that the 1500' rule still applies on approach and departure to unlicensed airfields, so you can't land an aeroplane in or near a built up area except at a licensed airfield in the UK, even with the owners permission.

You sure about this, FFF? I thought the low flying rules didn't apply in any situation where an aircraft is landing or taking off. Ready to be corrected, howerver.....

SSD

[Dufwer]

It's my understanding that at an unlicensed aerodrome the only part of rule 5 that doesn't apply is the 500' rule when the aircraft is in the process of landing or taking off. I don't know of any unlicensed aerodromes in build up areas but I would imagine that the 1500' part of the rule would cause a problem.

D

[FlyingForFun]

My understanding is the same as Dufwer's. I seem to recall reading this in Trevor Thom book 2, which I don't have with me. But I do have the Internet, and if I get a chance later today I'll try to find a reference in the ANO, unless someone beats me to it.

FFF
-----------

[Flyin'Dutch']

FFF,

The 500 ft rule does not apply if the aircraft is in the process of taking off or landing.

So those are fine but Touch and Goes are not!

FD

[FlyingForFun]

:D @ FD!

The relevant regulations are all in Rule 5, on pages 235-237 of this document (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF).

Low Flying:

5 (1)(a) An aircraft other than a helicoptor shall not fly over any congested area of a city, town or settlement below:

(ii) a height of 1500 feet above the highest fixed object within 600 metres of the aircraft.

Rule 5 (1)(c) contains a similar restriction for helicoptors - omited for brevity

Rule 5 (1)(d) contains the 1000 metre rule - omited for brevity

Rule 5 (1)(e) An aircraft shall not fly closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.


So those are the rules. The exceptions are listed below:

2(a) The provision of paragraphs (1)(a)(ii) and (1)(c)(i) shall not apply to an aircraft flying unless the aircraft is landing or taking off.

(In other words, they [I]do apply if the aircraft is landing or taking off, so 2(a) isn't relevant to us right now.)

2(d) Paragraph (1)(e) shall not apply to:

(i) any aircraft while it is landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice

So this is the general exemption to the 500' rule, which applies anywhere we are landing or taking off.

The exemption to the 1500' rule for taking off and landing is contained in paragraph 4(a):

(4)(a) Subject to to paragraph (b), nothing in this rule shall prohibit any aircraft from flying in accordance with normal aviation practice, for the purpose of taking off from, landing at or practicing approaches to landing at, or checking navigation aids or procedures at, a Government aerodrome, an aerodrome owned or managed by the Authority or a licensed aerodrome in the United Kingdom or at any aerodrome in any other country.

(Paragraph (b) relates only to practice approaches.)

There is nothing other than paragraph (4)(a) which exempts you from the 1500' rule, and paragraph (4)(a) doesn't apply at unlicensed airfields.

Sorry, SSD!

FFF
----------------

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

So no touch and goes on the company car park at weekend. Drat!

But what constitutes 'a congested area of a city, town or settlement'?

SSD

[ratsarrse]

But what constitutes 'a congested area of a city, town or settlement'?

This would probably be determined in court, when the CAA prosecutes you for doing touch and goes in the company car park...
:D

[Whirlybird]

Helicopter pilots run into all this (no pun intended) quite often, since we frequently land somewhere other than a licensed airfield with a runway. There is definitely no exemption from the part of Rule 5 which refers to congested areas, and no precise definition of a congested area. The only thing to do is play safe and not annoy anyone on the ground...especially in the company car park. :D

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

But Whirls, you'd be OK if the compay car park is at least 3000 feet diameter and you land in the middle - vertically. Arrive overhead at > 1500, then descend. I wouldn't like to think about the engine failure circumstances (I think you call this the 'avoid curve' in whirly things), especially in the subsequent vertical take off. Unless it's a twin :~)

SSD

[Whirlybird]

SSD,

You do indeed call it the avoid curve. But it's only to be avoided where possible, not if the alternative is worse. I saw a picture somewhere during my training of a helicopter in a confined area surrounded by trees, caption: "In the avoid curve, or in the trees?" So for your exaple, I think it would be: "In the avoid curve, or hauled up in front of the CAA?" I think I know which one I'd prefer.;) :D

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

Helicopter pilots run into all this (no pun intended) quite often, since we frequently land somewhere other than a licensed airfield with a runway. There is definitely no exemption from the part of Rule 5 which refers to congested areas, and no precise definition of a congested area.

Balloonists also...
I was led to believe that the CAA regarded a "congested area" as anywhere marked in yellow on the half-million...

The only thing to do is play safe and not annoy anyone on the ground...

Absolutely :uhoh:

[Spitoon]

The CAA were thinking about changing Rule 5 - there was a consultation on it a while back. I can't remember the details and I'm not sure what happened but I seem to recall that it posed problems for unlicensed airports.

[nonradio]

Clearly, an exemption to 5 (1)(e) has to exist somewhere down the line and Touch and goes are most certainly allowed at unlicensed strips/landing sites, since you are landing and taking off ! Practice approaches, flybys etc are forbidden if within 500' of a P,V,V,S and you have no intention of landing...

5 (1)(c) and (a) apply only to aircraft OVER the congested area.