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long final
22nd Mar 2002, 15:04
I don't even know if thats the right term for them, but could someone explain why sometimes we can see them, and other times cannot.. .Thnaks. .LF

RVR800
22nd Mar 2002, 15:57
Function of saturation old chap. .. .If saturation becomes 100% then the. .exhaust water vapor will condense its. .got nowhere to go . .. .Clearly as one climbs the colder it . .gets and the air is capable of carrying . .less and less water vapour hence the contrail. .is normally associated with jets. .. .You can get it with any aircraft even a . .light aircraft flying high in the winter . .months - Dont tell the GA guys though as they. .will be too proud...

peanutter
22nd Mar 2002, 16:20
As a general rule of thumb, the ambient air temperature needs to be at least -30 degrees celsius.

Justforkix
22nd Mar 2002, 16:29
I thought the technical term for them was chemtrails!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

long final
22nd Mar 2002, 17:08
As simple as that, Thanks.. .LF. .Edited because nothing is ever that simple ...... . . . <small>[ 24 March 2002, 17:07: Message edited by: long final ]</small>

PorcoRosso
22nd Mar 2002, 18:23
In the early days of Daylight Hihg altitude bombing, during WWII, contrails helped german to spot and trace B17 & 24 formation. Therefore, intensive researches were made to find a way to consistently reduce those "here we are" advertising signs.. .Finally, a man was able to design a kit to be fitted on the exhausts of the A/C. At this stage germans engineers had devellopped efficient radars and needed no more to have the incoming raid to be reported visually. The brillant system was given up.. .Amazingly, since a couple of years, NASA started researches on the same subject, as it is thought that airliners contrails create an artificial "cloud coverage" with potential effects on environment. They are using the WWII works to devellop "contrail reducing kit/engine" for tomorrow's civilian jet ..... .I can't remember the name of this WWII era engineer, but at least, his work maybe usefull.

PPRuNe Towers
22nd Mar 2002, 18:26
RVR800 is just a puppet of the establishment. Take his word at your peril - only Just for Kix [Hmmmm = JFK........] has the guts to point you in the right direction.. .. .We can't help - we know the whole site is monitored but a search engine should put you on the right track.. .. .Got to go now - there were some funny clicks on the modem speaker.. .. .Rob

Tinstaafl
22nd Mar 2002, 23:22
Don't be so paranoid, PPT!. .. .Erm...can you speak up a bit? Preferably facing toward your smoke alarm.... .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

BEagle
23rd Mar 2002, 04:14
These trails are only present when our controllers at E*****n order us to select the world-dominance tank valves to "OPEN"..... .. .There's nothing mystrious about this process, we've 2634,erg i76577675rhch;fdj;f'dhdf 'foi 'ri\ryfcchjis; fi\ gk\fwer' lr \ekf pweofj 'w fwwijf\ wdfn ., lkgj fgerj \w ff \weffhipufl gx.afl DCH\WEqlkd\ . .. ...why is that car parked outside? Can those be 'cammo dudes' at the door? No - it's only Elvis and Mr Kennedy after all!

Checkboard
24th Mar 2002, 12:03
Actually, RVR800, when the saturation is 100%, you are in a cloud and can't see any contrails!. .. .The effect is a combination of saturation and temperature, as the contrail is made up from ice crystals.

Kaptin M
24th Mar 2002, 15:36
I've noticed on some days there is an EXTRA assistant with the refueller, and usually dressed in white overalls. This guy usually operates a small valve that seems to come from a separate tank, however the hose from this separate tank connects to the main refuelling hose.. .. .Almost uncannily the day AFTER I have seen this man in white, our passenger loads are chokker block full. I've also noticed that whenever WE fly through another aircraft's contrail, I get this URGE to want to travel forever.. .. .Funny that!

Mycroft
24th Mar 2002, 16:06
Just wished I'd had a camrea with me a couple of months ago. At sunset sky was clear except for large contriail, which due to position of sun was strongly illuminated with red light - could have made fortune from chem-trail guys

Eboy
24th Mar 2002, 18:14
Luckily, there remains at least one uncensored source of contrail/chemtrail information. Look at the evidence, then you decide . . . <a href="http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm" target="_blank">http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm</a>

BEagle
24th Mar 2002, 20:56
Hell, boys - looks like we caught us a live one....

PPRuNe Towers
25th Mar 2002, 05:43
Hey Beagle,. .. .Do you think it's time we reissued that doctored Boeing Tech manual page we created here at the Towers a couple of years ago.. .. .Lovingly crafted in Photoshop it showed the extra equipment on board for pumping the chemicals into the efflux......... .. .Caused great fun and high panjandorum over on the err, alternative sites.

Cyclic Hotline
25th Mar 2002, 06:13
Far from wishing to perpetuate the speculation over the health hazards of those tell-tale trails in the sky, I feel I must point out conclusive confirmation of con-trails indicating a serious health hazard to those on the ground below.. . <img src="http://abcnews.go.com/media/World/images/rt_tora_bora_011214_nv.jpg" alt="" /> . .Afghanistan 2001

Checkboard
25th Mar 2002, 11:17
It's good to see that the US are using more than explosive munitions on the Afgan problem.. .. .This is an area of the world that has been denied to the majority of airline trafic due to the strife in the area, and catching up on the spray denisty over Afganistan should produce the same complacent reactions in the population as the chemtrails that have been in use over the US and Europe for the last thirty years.

loggerhead
25th Mar 2002, 12:25
In Australia, they do a lot of advertising with aircraft using smoke. When an OZ girlfriend came over to visit last summer, she looked in the sky, found a load of airline contrails and asked why where they practicing so high! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 07:26: Message edited by: loggerhead ]</small>

Evening Star
27th Mar 2002, 16:01
Was over in The Lakes yesterday and climbed the Old Man of Coniston. Wonderful day, bright sunshine, clear views and overhead could see a patchwork crossing of contrails. And at the head of each trail was a tiny glint full of people travelling off to strange and interesting places. Maybe some chemical affected me, but I suddenly felt the urge to book a ticket and also fly off to some strange and interesting place.....