View Full Version : 757 Gear problem out of Linate yesterday (BA569)?
Winkiepinkie
6th Jun 2003, 18:53
Not quite sure where to post this:
While wakeboarding yesterday (05/06/03) evening at the Idroscalo in Milan I couldn’t help but notice the BA569 757 departing. And what a beautiful sight it was (757 = sexiest plane to have taken to the skies). But what really caught my attention was the fact it disappeared off into the distance with the undercarriage lowered. It was still lowered when it was an indistinguishable dot in the distance.
Would there be any reason for this? Was it done intentionally or was there a "glitch"? Could the crew or anyone drop a line to let us know, coz I’m dying of curiosity.
Thanks in advance for any replies, w.
Hand Solo
6th Jun 2003, 20:25
Could have been any number of reasons. Can't speak for the 757 but on the Airbus it's not uncommon to leave the gear down due to failed wheel tacheometers (allows the wheels to stop spinning before the gear goes up) or to cool hot brakes if there are no brake fans fitted. If there really was a serious glitch I suspect the aircraft would either have returned to LIN fairly soon or diverted to MXP where there may have been more engineering cover.
expedite_climb
6th Jun 2003, 20:58
Yup, if a brake is capped off on the 757 then the gear needs to be left down on take off for a period of time (can't find the referance right now). Incidentally this causes a serious performance degradation, of 10 tonnes or so !
chock2chock
6th Jun 2003, 22:33
A relatively rare occasion, but if you live near an airport you're quite likely to see that every now and then. Sometime last week I saw an Alitalia 777 performing what appeared to be a normal SID out of 16R at Fiumicino with all hanging down. You mentioned about a perfomance degradation, well on the 777 those bogies look immensely saggy \o/ \o/ Imagine the drag.
Alitalia has just recieved the 777 and they seem to do quite a bit of traning at night fliying normal and abnormal circuits around the airport. Is flying the aircraft 'dirty' part of any airline training programme?
expedite_climb
6th Jun 2003, 23:19
Yes and no.
If you are doing circuit training the wheels get spun up every time you land which heats them, and then the brakes are applied as you gear up, when the gear goes into the wells.
When I was base training every few circuits the gear was left down until downwind for cooling purposes - so yes its fairly standard when training, but not for a training purpose !
MEL & DDG 32-41-1 B757-200 After TOF the gear must remain extended for a minimum of 2 minutes. Flaps 15 2nd segment penalty is 14.3 tonnes
Tonic Please
7th Jun 2003, 19:44
14.3 tonnes of what? I dont quite understand the answer.
Maximum Take-off Weight. A performance penalty means reducing the load to retain safety margins - 14 tonnes would be...lets see...all the passengers!!!
Tonic Please
7th Jun 2003, 20:15
Gosh! So I guess you just stay on the ground, wait for the wheel wells to cool, and then go, to save leaving the passengers behind?
expedite_climb
8th Jun 2003, 02:05
Tonic, no I think you are confusing two issues here.
The gear is often left down on circuit training to cool the gear.
The issue here is (probably) something different - to do with brakes capped / de-activated due to a fault / leak.
On a normal take off the brakes are automatically applied as the gear is retracted, this is so the wheels are not spinning as they go into the bay.
If a brake is capped off that particular wheel may still spin after take off, so the gear must be left down for min 2 minutes to allow the wheels to stop spinning. This procedure would mean the MTOW is reduced by 14.3 tonnes.
The other option is wait until the engineers come from from base to fix the leaky brake - a long option.
I don't know about performance out of LIN, but from Italy back to LHR I suspect that performance would not have been an issue at all and they may have even got away without leaving any bags behind. (It's an overpowered beast....) To give you an idea, anti skid inop is a similar performance problem (13 tonnes degradation), and I made it make from SSH (Sharm - el - Sheik) to LGW a few months ago no problem....
Expedite
I would suspect that Tonic Please is a journo' looking for some easy info to misconstrue. I would recommend that he be confused no longer.
FEBA
Tonic Please
8th Jun 2003, 02:30
FEBA...
I am not what you say. I am 18, living at home with parents, with many achievements under my belt. Not a journo, so please, do not jump to conclusions. I think I have a good reputation around here for trying to learn things, and you ask questions in order to do that.
I am reassured. Thankyou
FEBA
Tonic Please
8th Jun 2003, 02:53
I am at a loss to see how you came to your conclusion anyhow, but not to worry.
Dan :)
Banana99
8th Jun 2003, 07:21
Don't worry Tonic. It's the standard response on here from some quarters to anyone asking a question. If you don't understand how things work then you must be a "journo" (i.e. a very bad person) asking for information and that is bad. Or, more likely, but not as bad - for nothing is as bad as a "journo", a terrorist.
Note how there are few people on here who try and understand the workings, motivations etc. of a "journo". Maybe they should ask for media training from their employers to find out.
Cue salvos accusing me of being a "journo". The most base of all insults on this board.
bagpuss lives
8th Jun 2003, 07:40
Banana99 = journo :D:D:D
Tonic Please
Maybe they should ask for media training from their employers to find out.
I would recommend you take up Banana's advice , I'm sure the two of will will make fine journo's.
Good luck
FEBA
Winkiepinkie
9th Jun 2003, 19:04
Thanks you lot.
Just the answers I was looking for.
I would guess that we have this MEL at least once a week, it really isnt a big deal but unfortunately it looks unusual and therefore stirs an immense amount of interest :)
Mutt.
Tonic Please
10th Jun 2003, 00:28
FEBA. I dont understand your tone :confused: Are you purposely trying to create an atmosphere of sarcasm towards me and banana99 ?
Just curious.
Dan
Banana99
10th Jun 2003, 06:07
Did anyone see the thicko journalists on University Challenge tonight? They are clueless aren't they. They thing they know everything! Even I knew that that Beethoven tune was written in 1799 and the last one was in 1808. My god. They were 5 years out on the first one and (wait for it) over 10 on the latter one.
When are the Pilot team of professionals on. Wouldn't it be great to see the pilots smash the thicko journos on UC!!!!
Jet II
10th Jun 2003, 15:09
Banana99
Did anyone see the thicko journalists on University Challenge tonight? They are clueless aren't they. They thing they know everything! Even I knew that that Beethoven tune was written in 1799 and the last one was in 1808. My god. They were 5 years out on the first one and (wait for it) over 10 on the latter one.
When are the Pilot team of professionals on. Wouldn't it be great to see the pilots smash the thicko journos on UC!!!!
If you are the current standard of 'Professional pilot' then a word of advice - don't go anywhere near UC.
The question about Beethoven was to the Politicians:rolleyes:
Banana99
10th Jun 2003, 18:54
You're quite right - I was wrong.
See I can't be a typical pilot - I can admit when I was wrong
ETOPS
11th Jun 2003, 00:24
Getting the subject of journalists and pilots on University Challenge within a thread that started with Boeing 757 gear problems must deserve some kind of award........
Tonic Please
11th Jun 2003, 00:45
I was thinking that myself ETOPS, buty decided against saying anything :rolleyes:
Dan
expedite_climb
11th Jun 2003, 15:57
Now about that shop on the high street that opened up yesterday .....