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Cyclic Hotline
27th May 2003, 06:01
Some time ago, I read an article in Helicopter World, written by Joe West, that stated that the UN did not publish accident reports relating to aircraft contracted and operated on behalf of the UN.

Can anyone provide any further information on this subject?

Considering the record of these operations, surely it is time that this was changed (if this is correct)?

I have searched and been unable to find a single report anywhere.

4granted
27th May 2003, 13:46
I remember a Un King Air that crashed on Final into Abidjan killing a very high profile UN Peace person from Angola.
It was kept very hush hush and lots of theories went around and still do to this day. The war restarted shortly afterwards before Savimbi finally bit a bullet.
If anyone knows where to find these reports Id be most interested.
4g:confused:

Frangible
28th May 2003, 01:29
Why would they publish such reports? The UN doesn't have accident investigators, does not operate, own, manufacture or register aircraft. They charter them and their crews, and so have no duties under ICAO.

Cyclic Hotline
28th May 2003, 23:55
The reason that the UN might publish these reports is because the families of the civilian UN employees that are killed in these accidents are never, ever, given information pertinent to the circumstances of the deaths of their loved ones! Does that sound fair to you? How would you feel if that were to occur to you and your family?

As noted above;

The UN doesn't have accident investigators, does not operate, own, manufacture or register aircraft.

This is indeed correct, however surely the identical logic would demand that the UN would thus ensure that any aircraft they contract is subject to adequate control and regulation in all the areas mentioned above, to ensure the safe operation of the aircraft and more importantly the safety of those individuals tasked with the duties the UN are undertaking. Remember, these are commercially operated aircraft, contracted under a competitive commercial bid process.

The UN operations have a horrendous safety history with helicopters; operated with inadequate oversight in every aspect of the entire regulatory process (simply search UN helicopter crash on the internet). For example, if somone can explain quite how a Ukranian operated Mi-8 crash in Bosnia is investigated, and under the auspices of which Aviation Authority, I would be very pleased to understand the process.

When you pay the lowest price, you may also get the lowest standards of safety and operation. A far more effective means is to ensure that the contractor qualifies in a number of basic, audited, requirements involving organisational and regulatory capability and the ability to operate safe operations. Selection solely on the basis of (low) price is hardly a sound mechanism to base the effectivity of your operation or the safety of your valued employees? Remember these operations are being funded by money from your pocket.

If anyone could provide me with a detailed accident report from any of these UN accidents, I would be extremely grateful.

dicksynormous
29th May 2003, 20:05
there are to ways to get a un contract.
one is to broker cheap unsafe ex eastern bloc military aircraft or bribe. any combination of the above is also acceptable.
sometimes you dont even need to have the aircraft just say you do.

would you want anyone looking into these practices.

btmtdi
30th May 2003, 17:45
It is up to the relevant government to produce an Accident Report - given the chaotic state of the countries where most of these incidents happen (hence the UN presence) it is hardly surprising that Accident Reports regarding US losses are pretty rare

Frangible
31st May 2003, 22:29
My point was simply that the UN does not have air accident investigators, nor any legal duty to provide them so how can they be expected to produce any reports on these crashes?

If they are allowing dangerous cowboys to fly them around because they bid low then that is a problem for the UN's charter operation and they should change it to make sure they hire professional operators. And certainly there should be an "international AAIB" so that crashes get properly investigated wherever they occur, and not just those in the jurisdiction of countries that have the resources to fund proper enquiries.

Those are different issues, though, and the UN can't be expected to do public reports on crashes where they have no expertise or jurisdiction.

BEagle
1st Jun 2003, 16:41
Having had an aeroplane damaged to the tune of over 47K by some eastern bloc-operated Illyushin under a charter, we tried to claim against them. But the layers of companies within companies we came across was unbelievable. The old commie rust-bucket was registered in one country, insured (hah!) in Russia, operated by a freight company in another country who had the contract placed with them by a cheapo broker employed by the charterer.......

It's all to save cash. Rather than charter from reputable companies, the bean counters find some vodka-fuelled outfit flying clapped-out ex-soviet air force tramp steamers and keep their fingers crossed that nothing will go wrong.