Red Arrows - Value for money?

[DummyRun]

If we binned the Red Arrows we could afford 'Walkers crisps' in RAF buttie boxes. Discuss.

[StopStart]

Frankly I'm surprised you could want for anything other than "Champion" crisps. They are, after all, champion!

Anyway, having been feasting on MREs for inflight for the last 10 days or so I'm going to suggest that we do away with inflight catering and buttie boxes all together and just get a box of compo instead. And a box of Champion crisps.

:yuk:

[rivetjoint]

I understand you're suggesting that the Red Arrows cost the same as a packet of crisps...but is that per year/per second/per mm height of their non-standard flightsuits?

[FJJP]

Excellent idea. However, none of us are sufficiently qualified to decide on the brand of crisps to be supplied. I believe it would be in the best interests of the Service if at least a one-star was appointed to oversee the brand choice (complete with an office of support staff; also a new-build on a greenfield site may be necessary).

Clearly, this is a case where there must be a series of trials carried out in conjunction with Boscombe Down, to ensure that the chosen crisps can withstand plus 45 'g' down to minus 10 'g', and be at least half-way edible between +75 and -100 deg celsius. It is also essential that the bags be tested to ensure that they do not burst when subjected to cabin altitudes in excess of 60,000 feet. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office will need to negotiate terms with a number of countries to obtain the most favourable annual costs over several years to enable extensive use of their facilities to conduct hot and cold weather tests. Trials should also be conducted to ensure that the chosen bag fits into the standard box without the need for in-flight catering staff to bash the bags with a mallet to fit them in; in addition to having intact crisps, considerable savings would be made in obviating the need to procure the latest mallets. If necessary, Defence funds (limited to single figure millions) could be made available to crisp manufacturers to enable them to redesign and resize their bags specifically for the Forces; the smaller bags would lead to additional savings in the long term, since there would be less crisps per bag and therefore the manufacturer would charge less per bag. Money could also be saved by foregoing any kind of tasting trial, since this has been irrelevant in the past and of little significance in the future.

Consideration should be given to the formation of a Joint Service Department, with a one-star as head of each of the Service Depts, with a 3-star in overall command. This 3-start post will be rotated every 2 years between all 3 Services. The results of the trials should be circulated at the highest level for comment, before being passed to the Procurement Executive for them to process tender applications. Crisp manufacturers' Executive Boards should invite the Executive staff fom the Procurement Executive and the Joint Service Department, together with other selected other staff, to Farnborough and Paris airshows (as corporate guests, all expenses paid, of course) for discussion on the relative merits of their products. Other Flag, General and Air officers of the Services and their staffs must also attend these corporate briefings, since the supply of crisps will be a joint Service affair - it accords with the latest policy on going 'Joint' to make and be seen to make savings wherever we can. It may also be useful for the manufacturers to meet high ranking individuals, who, in the best interests of the Services, might be invited to become Board members to oversee product production and development.

French products should, of course, be excluded from consideration in view of the prevalence of BSE in that country.

After about 9 or 10 years, the chosen product will appear in the butty boxes. If the manufacturer has the misfortune to become insolvent after the process is complete, it will be of little significance, because the structure is in place for the process to be rapidly re-started.

Thus the money saved from disbanding the Reds will have handsomely paid for the whole process and real savings will now imerge. However, it would be useful to retain the Department because their posts would be useful for Innsworth to enable them to post in likely career people due to the demise of yet more front line units (thus losing command posts to assess future CAS-likely candidates).

The recruitment budget will need to be increased significantly to offset the effects of the loss of the Reds.

BWoS would also have to find another way of selling their products abroad, the cost of which would be added to the procurement bill for the British Forces.

The nett result in scrapping the Reds would therefore be a negative saving of several millions.

Since it is likely that this Forum is read by staff at the highest level and the definition of logic does not appear in the Central Staff Handbook, I look forward to an early announcement setting up the new Joint Service Department, at the same time announcing the date for the disbandment ceremonies and the laying up of the Standard of the Red Arrows in Lincoln Cathedral.

[wub]

FJJP:

"BWoS would also have to find another way of selling their products abroad, the cost of which would be added to the procurement bill for the British Forces"

Perhaps they could offer a free lifetime supply of crisps?

[Autorev]

Woooaaah There FJJP!
Nice thinking, but....obviously we first need a working group to assess the feasability of a steering group committee before we implement your idea!

[chippy63]

FJJP,
Excellent methodology, but aren't you being a bit optimistic on the timing? 9 or 10 years sounds a bit unrealistic, bearing in mind the need to choose the correct type of potato, and ensure that sufficient quantities can be produced securely and to the right standard? Suppliers to be security vetted, of course. You may wish to infiltrate Macdonalds' HQ, since they do have some of the best spud men in the business. Or maybe do a tech transfer agreement.
Also, to boost export sales, would you consider local assembly under licence?

[rivetjoint]

Presumably a non-potato version will have be to introduced to respect the beliefs of non-potato eating religions?

[tarbaby]

Another committee should be formed to assess the effects of the oil that the crisps are cooked in. If the crisps are to replace other foods in the butty-box the calorific content of the crisps must be equal to or exceed the energy content of the deleted foods.

[Art Field]

Since MOD are unaware of the EC regulation requiring crisps to be contained in an airtight form of packaging and to be consumed within a set period after manufacture those who have had sight of the draft requirement report that it only states that the crisps should be contained in a paper bag and that salt should be packaged separately, a blue twist is suggested. The chairman of the board convened to produce the draft, 87 year old retired Admiral Sir Hardly Worthit was heard to say " Thats the way I've always liked em, difficult to get but somebody must do it, try a chap called Smith".

[higthepig]

Forget the crisps, how about a Kit-Kat?

[fobotcso]

Kit Kat!

In my day we would have insisted on Waggon Wheels.

But seriously, I think FJJP's idea wiith subsequent embellishments is a super plan, but don't forget the mandatory rule that if there is a change of UK government before the end-point that you have to go back to the beginning and start all over agian.

Don't really think its worth starting. If it ain't broke....

[Zlin526]

9 huge egos in close formation???

I'll take the crisps...

Bin 'em and get a 4 ship of tucanos instead.

[Scud-U-Like]

8 out of 10 Red Lemur owners (who expressed a preference) said their red lemurs preferred Walkers Crisps to the Red Arrows.

[fobotcso]

Has anyone spoken to Gary Lineker about this?

[witchdoctor]

You seem to have forgotten to include a £5bn stealth crisp development project and eat-off. After all, you wouldn't want to be caught behind enemy lines without the latest technology in savoury snacks.

Each packet must avoid the use of radar-reflective materials, and come in a fetching range of colours to include khaki, olive, battleship grey and snowflake. Furthermore, the packet shall not produce noise audible to the human ear at ranges greater than 3 feet.

The snack itself must avoid detection by being odourless and having a stealthy crunch, as well as being manufactured in the regulatory colour for each theatre of operation. In addition, it must produce no bodily after effects such as those resulting from excessive consumption of BBQ Pringles. :O

[chippy63]

Good point on the packaging. In order to reduce the number of RAF suppliers, maybe the packets could be made by sellotaping together bits of chaff, then coating the resulting bag with stealth surface coating, or paint, as I believe it's called.
Then, after consumption, the bags could be collected and the stealth coating removed; the bags could then be cut up again and the bits returned to stores for re-issue as chaff.
My God, I had no idea that defence procurement was so complex.

[DummyRun]

Happy days guys!

OK, lets go for Walkers for the first 9 yrs of the procurement plot and then.... and this will show 'em we're mean wheelers and dealers, yup, you got it, we,ll go for Smith's crisps, only with Walker's flavours, Champion packets and El Quaver engines, and stuff them into KitKat boxes and we'll call it the Future Large Eurocrisp.

Just another thought; instead of 9 egos in close form'n why not just paint six little red toy jets on the underside of the support Albert?.... doh! that'll never wake up the truckie nightshift at Akrobleari, silly me.

[rivetjoint]

Good idea about the Future Large Eurocrisps, maybe the people running with it could be called Future AIr LUnch Research EngineerS ?

[maxburner]

Will the new stealth packets be left or right handed opening?

[rivetjoint]

Or have a field-mod to allow them to be universal?

[Big Cat Handler]

What everyone seems to be missing is that the Out of Service Date for the Champion crisp is 2004, so we aren't allowed to even think about its replacement until 31/12/03.:\

[Green Flash]

MaxB

Will the new stealth packets be left or right handed opening?

Nah, bleedin packets won't open at all, especially in the desert. We'll have to bung a few million squids to H&K to get 'em to open properly. Meanwhile, Aunty Betty will have to lease German & Dutch paprika flavour jobs.:hmm:

[Ex Douglas Driver]

Hang on - to what spec will these crisps be produced? You'll probably have to ensure that they conform to mil-spec, or next time you're running around with the mighty US-of-A, you could have interoperability issues.:ugh:

[BOAC]

AAh! But WILL they have a 'DO NOT DISPLAY AFTER' date on them? Cannot have people turning up to see the 'Red Packets' and missing them.

PS FOBOTCSO - what position does Lineker fly anyway? Is it 'left behind'?

[ShyTorque]

Replace crispy old things in red bags?

That's no way to talk about the world's favourite flying club!

If they were replaced by a holographic image generator and a surround-sound system, how would those manufacturers of second rate sunglasses, cars, etc get by without the cheap advertising?

This could also have a massive effect on the car rear window sticker industry.

And how would future plane spotters learn how to count up to nine?

The Red Arrows have always been the pride of our nation, in fact, our Golden Wonder boys.

Good grief, this is very, very serious. :\

[Zoom]

This is all very well, but we will spend so much time discussing it and paying ex-Air Marshal directors for their out-of-date advice that the Americans will upstage us with the Digital Versatile Thundercrisp and have it in service by Christmas. It will be multi-flavoured, multi-coloured (sorry - multi-flavored, multi-colored) and cost half as much as the British crisp but it will look bloody ugly and won't have any credibility amongst European chefs. But the RAF won't get that one even if it meets their requirements because HMG will insist that we foster European relations by purchasing the feeble, underpowered so-called Multi Snack Euro Crisp, poorly adapted to the Offensive/Defensive/Inactive Potato Snack (ODIPS) role from a 1960s mock demo prototype Frog Jet Trainer Crisp. This crisp will spurn all the latest advances such as the new eat-by-wire technology favoured by the Japanese snack industry, preferring to remain firmly stuck in the analogue crisp era. The German snack industry will demand design leadership over the 27 participating European nations because they have ordered the most crisps, shortly before cutting their order by two thirds on the basis that the German national crisp is superior to every other crisp because it is German. The crisp's spec will be altered on a monthly basis during development as each air force sticks its oar in, its name will be changed every year as the European nations drop out to leave just Britain and Malta in the programme, it will arrive 7 years late, it will be 300% over budget and it will come only in garlic flavour because that is what the Frogs insisted on at the very beginning and we couldn't afford the extra £8bn to change it. In the meantime, the Frogs will have gone it alone with a swing-wing crisp which will look pretty but be too lightweight to do the job properly. So would it not be more sensible just to buy the Russian Revolution Comrade Crisp off the shelf as they have produced some good stuff lately without much fuss and could do with the currency?

[Green Flash]

Bu%%er - forgot about Ivan. Fair point. Perhaps we should be moving into the humaitarian aid role re snack foods and leaving the sound & light shows to those with the tactical nibbles. Bu%%er.:ooh:

[FJJP]

Having recently received a one inch thick glossy report on the state of my company's premesis with regard to access for the disabled, I realise that it is something I hadn't considered.

Clearly, the packets will have to be fitted with special opening tags to allow those with any form of disability to their hands to be able to open them easily. The packets must also be printed with highly contrasting colours to benefit the visually impaired; all aircraft will have to be fitted with a hearing loop, to allow those with profound deafness to be able to hear the crisps - after all, the sound of crunching crisps is a necessary part of the enjoyment process.

In view of this, a specialist streering group will need to be formed, working closely with the various disability support groups to ensure we get it right first time. The new multi-building complex will have to be designed and built to allow free and easy access to all members of this group.

An additional study group will be needed, including specialist legal departments, to examine the multitude of laws and guidelines that must be considered and followed in the design, production and distribution of the finished product. A separate sub-group of specialists in EU legislation will also be necessary, to ensure that, when we hand over complete sovereignty and legal control of our country, we will not leave ourselves open to breach of European law. Similarly, if they product is to be supplied as part of any future joint operation involving the US Forces, another sub-group specialising in US legislation will have to be formed.

Finally, the new 50-building complex, with underground car parking, should be built and properly landscaped in an area with easy access to Central Government. A study should commence immediately to examine suitable 1000 acre sites in Berkshire to meet this criteria. Occupants of any villages re-located to allow demolition of their homes will need to be fully compensated, with additional large sums awarded to them for the inconvenience they will have suffered. However, it is recommeded that this additional inconvenience package should not exceed high 3-figure £millions.