when is a runway clear?

[tradesmansentrance]

Whilst taxying my little plane around Londons premier airport today , my attention was drawn to a B777 under tow which somehow had become stuck in the middle of runway27L , poor chap . Two goarounds and some visual switches later , the beastie was removed , runway cleared and normal excellent ops were resumed . I pondered and pontificated with my codriver , as to the need for such panic driven shennannigans and whether another way was possible to resolve this problem . Could one not just declare a reduced landing distance beyond the obstruction , with a message "undercarriage clearance cannot be assured , pilots to use caution on landing ". I mean we are simply considering a displaced threshold here and what with a little seat of your pants flying based on a tweaked glidepath , well thats why they pay us the greenback![ I do however accept that most displaced thresholds are not 80ft high and weigh 125tonnes ] Big it up to the Essex lad who handeled the mini crisis today so professionnally , I beleive his name is Trevour , well done Trev mate.

[Bealine Lima Golf]

Stone the crows, I was towing that blaady aeroplaane!

Blaady froightening I can tell you. We was halve way 'cross 27 Left when saddenly the tug just packs in. The first thing I've done was look right to see a set o' bleeding landing lights caaming right for me. I told the Tower straight away and he says "Lima Golf, your havin' a laff ain't yah?", to which I replied, "Nah mate, straight up, she's a gonna".

Anyway, the geezer in the Tower was a diamond. He told every inbound aircraft to ****** off while we tried to sort it aaht.

That bloke will always be welcome on my Manor!!!

[vintage ATCO]

Cor blimey, all the important people read PPRuNe then!! :D

The 'obstacle' needs to be outside the Cleared and Graded Area, 105M from the centreline, 75M nearer the ends. Within the Runway Strip (150M from the cl) it can be treated as a 'temporary obstacle'.

Yes, it is possible to re-declare the distances so that the obstacle is outside the runway strip and below the approach/take off climb surfaces but it ain't a five minute job. And really the new threshold needs to be marked visually. Proabably quicker to get the errant aeroplane off the runway!!

VA

[Erman the german]

I was on the flight into London today. On the bus of crews this afternoon, the Commander, Johan, was joking about London accents (he went to Chelmsford College).He does a grate "cockeny" accent and had us in stitches (apparantly like the tower controllers at heathrow.He said it was hard to change runway at a late stage as he was laughing so much.next time he hears Trev on he will say hi. who says us german's have no sense of humour!? and Trev is welcome to an upgrade anytime. We think you are a special person.:D

[Captain Spunkfarter]

Erman you old sod!

When was it...Munich 1989??! Me with those three hosties, you having to wear Pampers after a night with the Barry the steward?

Call me.

[Wet Flaps]

Bealine Lima Golf

The fault for this incident lies at your door.

You should tell the Tower if you're going to be slow to cross, and if you are unable to expedite.

Shame on you.

[Bealine Lima Golf]

Wet Flaps

Hold up a minute.

We was doing our best. The Tower should've given us a bigger gap. I mean, with a wind of 240 degrees at 9 knots, a normal landing interval of 72 seconds just isn't enough to cross a 777 under tow. Any Tom, Dick and harry knows that.

I take back what I said about the geezer in the Tower.
I think he should be sorted ahht.

[Wet Flaps]

Bealine Lima Golf

I happen to know that the individual who was in the Tower today is the best of the best of the best.

If they bite his ass off, then I'm handing in my goddam badge.

If he goes down for this, I'll personally hunt you down, you worthless piece of sh*t.

God, my life is a sham.

[Captain Spunkfarter]

Hey fellas, Woah!!!

This thread has thrown up some very interesting points, and will hopefully create a foundation for wider debate. In the meantime, I've created a little four-line stanza which encompasses all the points put forward.

I like to call it "Shooting the Gap"

Continue approach, you're number eleven
I'm desparate to cross this big Triple seven
He says he'll be quick, you know it's a lie
"Oh my God, they're all gonna die!"

[Point Seven]

Don't you mean the controller was the breast of the breast?

The definition of a clear runway is "a strip of tarmac that heavier than air jets can be landed upon provided The Ringraider is not in the Visual Control Room" Mats 1 App E.

[GT3]

My wife and kids were on board that flight that had to make a severe turn skyward. I wouldn't want them flying into that place again!

[vector4fun]

Not being all that familiar with the famous "dry" British wit, I don't know how much of the above was meant in jest. (I don't think watching Benny Hill counts.) However, I'd like to say a few things about go-arounds, (as we call them).

I wouldn't, and never did, solo a student pilot who couldn't safely go around in an under-powered trainer. To suggest a common go-around in a modern airliner piloted by two professional airmen in VMC conditions is in any shape or form "dangerous" is as silly as suggesting Elvis is still alive and shagging bags at KMEM. We have another saying in the States; "Sh*t Happens". If you're working a busy facility, and at least a couple a day aren't going around, then you're not running your final tight enough, or not getting your departures airborne in a timely manner.

Those that want to "eliminate" go-arounds, can lobby to increase the minimum spacing on final 30%, realizing that they also just reduced the acceptance rate at that airport by 30% as well.

Then we can all watch those airline companies go bankrupt 30% faster......:hmm:

[tradesmansentrance]

Vector

What the **** is your post about ?

[Gonzo]

I don't know how much of the above was meant in jest.

I think the operative word should be all of the above.

And also the use of the word wit, when applied to these gentlemen, is dubious at best.

Gonzo.

[Thames]

Gonzo,

You wouldn't know wit if it bit you on the bum (or maybe that's yr dream) Are you saying that the above never happened?

Vector,

I thought that the German's had no sense of humour. I can now add yanks to that list.

YOU ARE BOTH BENNY'S

[Gonzo]

777 blocking the runway, I can accept that.

I was referring to.................oh, never mind.....it'd be wasted.

:p

Gonzo.

[Bombay Bad Boy]

Lima Golf....

From wot I've read, you did the right thing mate. Hey, who's to know when a tug is gonna pack up ! And like you said, you informed the tower controller imediately.

I'd say any controller with common sense would know that a 777 being towed is gonna be slow crossing and if your relying on an expedite, the controller is setting himself up to get his fingers well and truly burnt ! In this case, your tug packin up is no-ones fault.


Wet Flaps (ya plonker)...

Wot a stupid thing to say ! If the controller issues a crossing clearance to the tug, the controller obviously thinks it can get across in time.

How many Tug drivers have you had come back to you and say.......
"Nah, sorry tower, i aint crossing this time, I dont think youve given me a big enough gap to get across" ??????

Knob cheese comments like yours let the side down mate !
"totally unacceptable"

BBB:}

[Thames]

BBB

Get yr arse down to a busy ATCO2 unit.
Then criticise a busy unit.
Otherwise stay at the quieter unit.

Gonzo

Are you suggesting that people are trying to be funny on here?
You should be reported. This is a forum for professionals only.
A disgrace to the job.

[jobsfortheboys]

BBB

Some of this thread is factual and some is humorous , so please do us all a favour and try and distinguish betwixt the two .

Secondly you are talking out of your feckin arse regarding EGLL operations .

Stick to what you know which is plainly nowt .

Right , that Turkey should be almost defrosted by now ...... slightly moist and refreshingly cool......mmmmmmmmmmm.

[Captain Spunkfarter]

Throw it away, throw it away!!!

It's a gusty night
And it's gonna be tight
My face goes white
And it all turns to ****e.

[Gonzo]

Thames,

Are you suggesting that people are trying to be funny on here?

Yes, I am. Some of you guys are trying to be funny. Of course, one or two are just trying.

Hey, jobsfortheboys, at least whoever it was didn't get two BA 777s mixed up, eh? :rolleyes:

And have you sussed it yet?

Gonzo.

[Bombay Bad Boy]

Jobs for the boys....

Youve got a point mate, missed the humour a bit and should have read the thread more carefully. Dont know about LL ops and dont really care, I'm having far too good a quality of life to get involved. Furthermore, it doesnt matter what unit your at if you have an aircraft on tow crossing the runway and the tug dies whilst an aircraft is short finals, your still in the same situation ! Like lima Golf, said... controller was a diamond!


Spunky......

Forget the film career, your becoming a bit of a poet in your old age ! Serious proposition coming up with sheds of cash, even bigger than yr extra deserved £15k a year mate.


BBB

[Point Seven]

BBB

Wind your neck in. This whole thread has been done by three folks as a bit of a laugh. Stop wandering around firing off. Mind you, no jets=lots of time to type.

[Gonzo]

Okay, I think this is getting a bit out of hand here.

I'm up for a bit of banter as much as the next guy, but use your common sense please. For those who do not know LL and/or Capt Spunkwotsit, jobsfortheboys et al and what they get up to (or not, thus having to compensate by spending lots of time here!), it could be difficult to differentiate between serious and wind up.

In fact, I seem to remember that I heard Capt. S say on Tuesday "Hey, what sort of wind up can we get going on PPRuNe this afternoon?" (I think that was just after Liberty X Express:rolleyes::D )

Anway, Vector4fun and BBB were more or less trapped by something which they thought was at the very least a semi-serious thread, and then get abuse in return.

Gonzo

[GT3]

Liberty X Express

on that subject, did they need those steps? and did you notice the captains name was P. Waterman?

[Bombay Bad Boy]

Definately had me going hook, line and sinker. Just found the chill pills in the tuck shop cabinet and swallowed the lot, Wet Flaps - can I have my mud back please that a threw atchya, thrown in error !

The Watch loved the poems though, its had us in stitches today. We're looking forward to "a poem of the day" maybe ?

BBB