First Type Rating

[Egon Toast]

Hello all,

Any opinion(s) to air on the subject of first Type ratings? I have a few questions;

- How hard are they compared to ATPL Exams and the Initial Instrument Rating?

- What sort of time period is a realistic goal for completion?

- What exactly do they consist of ( Sim:Ground Exam:Aircraft)?

Any advice, anecdotes, speculation or facts gratefully accepted!


Cheers,

E.T.



:):)

[shimmydamper]

It depends what kind of airplane
My first was a turboprop, first 2 weeks of ground
this included: systems,limitations, procedures etc, but also the company CRM,safety etc. since I just joined the airline.

After all this you do a exam, if you pass, you went on to the procedure trainer, this took us a few days.
In here we learned the correct callouts and procedures used by the airline.

then the fun stuff starts, 12 session in a full flight sim.
during the first sessions they take you by the hand, how to start the engines, how to taxi etc. the whole course is outlined in a trainingbook so you know exactly what to prepare and do.

the last few session we did so called Loft sessions, this is basically flying from A>B with all kinds of problems happening.
You finish the sim sessions with a typerating exam, this consist of n-1, prec. appr.,non pres. appr., abborted To, go around, what you do depends of course on the issuing authority.

the last step was circuittraining in the real thing.
After this you wait till the authorities put the rating on your license

Now it is time to start line training.

My first jet type took me 7 weeks from start to linetraining
basically followed the same route as the turboprop rating.
except that the groundschool was compterbased

For me was the typerating "easier" than the ATPL stuff.
the ATPL stuff was very diverse and for multiple AC.
the type is about 1 AC, but now you need to learn everything about it.

Advice?
Preparation is the keyword I think, look at the training handbook and see what you are going to do the next sessions and review the stuff.
before you go in the sim make sure you know the callouts and procedure for your new airline, If you have to spend time in the FFS and work on your callouts you loose valuable expensive simtime.

anecdotes?

a few, the best landing I ever did in training was the very first one. the rest sucked bigtime!!!!
another one, during a smoke in the cockpit drill, the smoke machine would not stop. I could not see my finger, even if I put it in my eye!!!
:O eventually the trainer pressed the emergency stop button!
and we "evacuated" the sim

S

[Maximum]

The groundschool side of things has nothing that's in itself difficult, BUT you will find generally there's a hell of a lot to cover in what will seem like not enough time.

Add to this the fact that you'll have to know it inside out to answer all those tricky exam questions. Plus the computer based training usually doesn't cover everything you need to know, so you have to start delving deep into assorted manuals and trying to sort out fact from fiction. Some autoflight systems and FMS can be pretty confusing and detailed to begin with. So prepare for two or three weeks of late nights and constant study.

Once into the sim you'll find it all comes at you fast - again a lot to cover in minimum time. Make sure you know all your flight profiles and calls beforehand, or you'll never catch up. Of course, in the real world you won't have had time to look for them because you'll have been too busy studying in groundschool. After each sim session you won't be able to review what you did, 'cos you'll be too busy again trying to prepare for the next session.

But amazingly you'll eventually find you're at the end of it all, doing your skill test, and hey - you've passed.

Then comes line training, and the learning curve starts all over again........ ;)

[Egon Toast]

:ok: Cheers Chaps, very useful information indeed.

In the interests of getting ahead of the game slightly, any reccommendations for books, cd roms, websites etc that might be of use to someone (hopefully) about to get their hands on their first Boeing?

Also, in terms of standard calls and profiles, I understand these have to simply be committed to memory; is there any way to get started early on these?

[Maximum]

Yup, profiles and call-outs need to be memorised.

If you've got a start date, try getting the flying manual early from the training department.

[Splat]

Superb thread, and very interesting.

If you will excuse my ignorance, but after the TR "Then comes line training, and the learning curve starts all over again........ " - can someone elaborate? I would have thought (and I plead ignorance again) that as line training is flying the line, without emergencies etc., I'm curios to know what I'm overlooking.

TIA

S

[4Screwaircrew]

Line training takes you through all the aspects of managing the operation of the aircraft and time. When to carry excess fuel when not to, ensuring that as far as ATC can permit you are at the best level for your weight the temerature the route you are flying. Keeping all the paperwork running and trying to ensure that all the ground servicesyou need are ready for your arrival. If you arrive somewhere that you don't normally uplift fuel and today you require it if you failed to request it on the descent you may not get it in time to allow an on schedule departure.

You will also fly the aircraft in different weather conditions with the weight and balance in different areas of the envelope to that which the simulator was set at, it's the real life thing rather than constant emergencies and QRH drills.

In short the honing of the skills you have obtained in the simulator, and development of the time and personel managment skills you will require.

[Egon Toast]

Roger that!

So with all the advance planning to do for the next sector, I presume the PF has to still keep an eye on the navigation and monitor the systems whilst the PNF covers the other tasks in hand?

Have just skimmed through "Map Shift" and IRU alignment loss; do you have time to keep a constant Plot going to confirm the position of the A/C or is it a case of juggling the tasks and including the EHSI in an instrument scan?

[eagerbeaver]

dont wory about it, it will all become crystal in your ground training. I deliberately did not look at anything boeing/aircraft related when I started the 737 technical you never know what garbage might get stuck in your head just coz you read it somewhere. Although on the other hand being prepared is all good too, take my advice and you will be all over the place!

you can check the naviational accuracy on the fix page of the fmc i believe. useing vor/dme

[Maximum]

So with all the advance planning to do for the next sector, I presume the PF has to still keep an eye on the navigation and monitor the systems whilst the PNF covers the other tasks in hand?

It's not quite like that Egon. With experience, planning for the next sector amounts to no more than coming up with a fuel figure based on weather, any RTOW restrictions and expected delays if any. However, just like the proverbial iceberg, there is so much more going on below the surface. This is why I say line training brings a very steep learning curve. And even when you've finished, you'll look back on yourself after six months to a year flying the line and realise just how much you thought you knew but didn't! It's all about a solid foundation of training, and then experience.

In very basic terms, PF will fly the aircraft, either through the autopilot or manually, PNF will "do" the radio, fill in the flight log and get the wx when required, while monitoring PF's actions.

Have just skimmed through "Map Shift" and IRU alignment loss; do you have time to keep a constant Plot going to confirm the position of the A/C or is it a case of juggling the tasks and including the EHSI in an instrument scan?

Full IRS alignment loss would be an extremely rare occurence. No plot is needed - that's why we have map mode. Generally most operators require one position check per hour and before descending towards terrain to ensure position displayed on map is actual position. This is easily done using a conventional VOR/DME position check, and comparing it to the position displayed on the EHSI map.

The full complexity of a commercial operation shouldn't be underestimated, and this is where experience is needed - to anticipate problems coming up, and to take action before they occur. This is often why, if you observe an experienced crew, they appear to make the job look a lot easier than it actually is.

[Go-Around]

So in short, what it is worth revising before embarking on a first type rating?
GA

[FlightDetent]

The new stuff! If by any way possible, get your hands on the A/C OPS Manual and start reading as soon as possible, preferrably at least 3 week before the start. On your own, relaxed schedule.

The ground school will seem like CBT for dummies for the first week, you'll be burning midnight oil sitting back home being just excited. However, the schedule is very tight, on the third week you'll get headache just from thinking about sitting in front of computer with headsets on. The stuff is fairly easy to comprehend, but the amounts just squeeze your brains out. Ironically, then comes the time when you need to start preparing for SIM.

The pre-study won't give you any head start or advantage over other students but simply time to reacharge as the groundschool progresses. Surely you will benefit from that when the SOPs and flow patterns start rolling in.

[eagerbeaver]

If you can get hold of their manuals YES otherwise NO

Also the voices they use on the CBT do your head in, i used one from continental and the mans' pronunciation was bizarre. There was nothing more gutting than opening a new topic and seeing there was 96 pages to work through. Tough but very rewarding at the end of it all.

good luck

[FlightDetent]

I did not make my self clear at all, though. Sorry. What I ment to suggest was to study the systems/equipment part of AOM, FCOM or whatever they call it in advance. It should not be operator specific that much. Do not try too hard, remeber, the point is not to learn more, as all that is required will be covered, whereas to allow yourself for a break later when during CBT lessons the stuff would have piled on yer head otherwise.

I'd leave the SOPs alone until the time is right (this of course includes doing the homework!) and an instructor is around.