Lapsed CAA PPL(A) > 10 years.. help!

[left_hand_drive]

I’ve found a number of posts here referring to lapsed PPL holders of less-than 10 years but my dilemma is of the more-than 10 year variety.

I completed my CAA PPL(A) (pre JAR-FCL) back in 1991 but unfortunately had to give up the same year because of money, or rather, lack of money. Now I can afford to pick this up again and I’ve already had a few lessons to re-familiarise myself.

The problem: Asking CAA ‘what are the requirements to become current again’, they have just pointed me to LASORS Section C5.1 and Section F. This is where I get the feeling of stumbling through a minefield blindfolded. :sad: I’ve stared blankly at this for a while, following references made to Appendix 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240.

Phoning the CAA and navigating through the switchboard (yes I actually made it!), they told me there is no need to retake any ground examinations and training is at the discretion of my Flying Instructor. I would then have to take a Licensing Skills Test and the CAA would award a Certificate of Revalidation. Needless to say, I cannot get this in writing/email from them and I cannot find any evidence in LASORS to back up this statement.

Any help or advice would be appreciated… I get the feeling that nothing I’m reading is particularly relevant to an lapsed CAA PPL(A) licence holder! AAAAAH!!! :confused:

Thanks, LHD

[Flyin'Dutch']

LHD

Write to the CAA and send them copies of your Logbook etc.

They will then write back with those requirements that you need.

FD

But since you have already spoken to them and got the info your needed from the horse's mouth not sure what you are worried about.

[Mike Cross]

Section F (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_F.pdf) is what you need:-

Where licence holders have been unable to renew
a SEP (Land) or TMG Class Rating for a period
exceeding 5 years from the date of expiry*, they
will be required to complete the following
requirements:
i) Complete the Skill Test in accordance with
Appendices 1 & 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240.
ii) Pass an oral theoretical knowledge
examination conducted by the Examiner as
part of the Skill Test.
iii) The LST/LPC form, completed as a renewal,
should be sent to CAA PLD for endorsement,
together with the appropriate fee as per the
Scheme of Charges.
iv) The Examiner should make no licence entry.
For renewal of an Instrument rating, if held, please
refer to Section E1.
*Where an applicant can show that they are
currently flying under the privileges of an ICAO
licence, and are flying an aircraft type/class within
their UK or JAR-FCL licence, the renewal
requirements will be based on the expiry date of
the rating currently being exercised.

If you have one of the licenses that is valid for life, that is all you need. However if you hold one of the 5 year licenses it's validity will have expired so section C (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_C.pdf) kicks in.

Revalidation for any type/class rating that has
expired by more than 5 years** they may not have
their licence re-issued until such time as an
appropriate valid medical certificate and Certificate
of Revalidation are obtained.

This appears to be a lot less than I had to do.
Under the old rules I had to submit my license and log book for an assessment, which resulted in a requirement to do all of the exams and air tests again.

Mike

[tacpot]

mrcross beat me to it! The text above comes from LASORS Section F1.5 and is applicable to oth JAA and CAA PPLs issued by the CAA. I revalidated my license after a 10+ year gap last year, and had to do all the ground exams plus the Skill Test, you appear to have been let off doing the exams!

I'm not sure I'm very impressed with this change - after a 10+ year break from flying I was VERY rusty and the exams cover some pretty important information, not all of which will be covered by any flying training you do.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Very interesting. I revalidated or whatever it is after a 12 year gap last year too. Had to do all the writtens, skills test and a qualifying XC. Interesting that it has got so much easier to do.

My mate has just revalidated after 14 years, however, and he was told he had to do all teh writtens which he has done. He had a different story from everyone he talked to at the CAA.

QDM

[Flyin'Dutch']

He had a different story from everyone he talked to at the CAA.

Hence my suggestion to write, and get any requirements confirmed that way.

Have fun!

FD

[Irv]

My mate has just revalidated after 14 years, however, and he was told he had to do all teh writtens which he has done.
That changed to 'no exams' during 2002.
He had a different story from everyone he talked to at the CAA.
That's why you now can't get anything out of them now except 'look at LASORS', whether LASORS will or will not help!

[BEagle]

1. Your flying training school will assess what training you need based upon how well they think you're doing - there is no mandatory list of specific requirements. I would certainly require someone in your situation to do some revision navigation training.

2. If you haven't used your FRTOL in the last 10 years, you WILL need to do the RTF theory exam and the practical test. Yes- that IS in LASORS. But if, for example, you've been using the RT as a co-pilot and can produce log book evidence to prove it, then you won't.

3. When the instructors think you're ready, you'll have to take the SEP Class Rating renewal proficiency check, NOT the whole PPL Skill Test. The Examiner will then explain the administrative procedure needed.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

I did it about 18 months ago and it required:

Completing all JAR-FCL PPL(A) Theoretical Knowledge Examinations and the following refresher
flying training:

(a) Dual flying training (P/UT) with a flying instructor, must include;
(i) Instruction in instrument flying; at CFI’s discretion
(ii) Instruction in pilot navigation; at CFI’s discretion
(iii) Instruction in the use of radio navigation aids; at CFI’s discretion
(iv) Stall/Spin awareness and avoidance training (SSAAT) - 2 hrs

(b) Pilot-in-Command (PIC) of Aeroplanes, must include;
(i) Solo general handling exercises - 4 hrs
(ii) Solo cross-country flying, must include (iii) - 4 hrs
(iii) One cross-country flight as per JAR-FCL 1.125(b)
(c) PPL(A) Skill Test

I also had to take the FRTOL

[strake]

I too renewed last year after an eleven year gap and had to retake all exams (except the FROTL) together with what was, in effect, a "half PPL"...some 15 hours flying which included handling, qualifying cross country and skills test.
I have an original "lifetime" licence but when I received my pack back from the CAA had been issued with a "UK" licence with a new number. My reissued ratings (Night/IMC) however still refer to the old licence number:confused:

Shortly after completing my renewal, the CAA then decided ( around Oct I think) that the written exams did not have to be taken anymore:*

That said, I found the written exams to quite useful as reminders and updates to current practice.

What did seem daft was that after the mandatory dual 1 hour of general handling and 2 hours of stall/spin awareness ( you try doing that for 2 hours...it gets stunningly boring so we went off and had fun instead...), my instructor said I was more than capable of passing a skills test. However, the CAA requirement then stated that I had to do 10 hours of solo flying before I could be skills tested. It was all good fun of course but surely the decision as to how much extra flying is required should be down to the CFI?
Perhaps this has changed in the new requirements as well?

[left_hand_drive]

Thanks to all who have replied to my question :D

My licence is of the valid-for-life variety so I'm quite lucky in that respect. It's interesting how the CAA have changed the requirements for somebody revalidating after such a long period of time. If anything, I would assume they would make these requirements more stringent, not less. Could be dangerous couldn't it!

As I've mentioned already, I've started hitting the circuit and I'm rusty to say the least.. luckily the undercarriage has survived my landing attempts so far! Purely for my peace of mind/safety, I'm opting to take ground school lessons, particularly in Air Law & Navigation regardless of these minimum requirements, and of course FRTOL will be on the To Do list.

Thanks again!
LHD

[QDMQDMQDM]

It's very surprising that it has got easier. I found all the stuff I had to repeat was quite useful actually.

QDM