NPPL seperate skills tests?

[juggernaut]

I have recently discovered that a student who is undertaking training for the NPPL must complete the Navigation Skill test before doing his or her solo cross country. The GFT is done at the end of the flight training when all exams are also completed. To me this is a crazy situation where it is compulsory for an examiner to complete two seperate skills tests with all the additional paperwork and hassle with weather. The JAR regulations mean I cannot test people that I fly with so it means that I frequently travel 100 miles to do tests. Recently I visited another school 7 times to complete 3 full tests due to weather. This regulation means that I am considering whether its all worth it. It seems strange that a Jar PPL student can do his NFT after his solo qualifier and NPPL cannot. Anyone else care to comment?

[BEagle]

Yes, I do.

The reason is that the NPPL was developed by established experts in their fields, not by JAA politicians. It was decided that an applicant's navigation skills should be tested by an Examiner before the applicant set off on a solo navigation exercise with 2 intermediate landings rather than after; i.e. - not good enough to pass the NST then no, you can't fly your solo cross-country until you are good enough.

The GST is flown at the very end of the course and looks at GH skills - a combined NST/GST similar to the JAR-FCL PPL Skill Test was viewed by most as being unfairly long for a pilot with perhaps only 32 hours of experience. The GST doesn't need to be conducted by the same FE who conducted the NST, so I don't really see your problem. If you need to travel twice, then charge appropriate travelling expenses if you must.

It's only JAR-FCL PPL Skill Tests which may not be conducted by an FE who has also instructed the applicant; that doesn't apply to NPPL Skill Tests nor, incidentally, IMC Rating Skill Tests. UK FEs are considered by the NPPL Policy and Steering Group as having sufficient integrity to avoid nepotism.

NPPL paperwork is designed to be far simpler than JAR-FCL paperwork; it's a shame that many UK FEs are unaware of the correct paperwork. It's all in the appropriate syllabus at www.nppl.uk.com .

[Mister Geezer]

The NPPL NFT can only be carried out if all the ground exams have been passed.

[juggernaut]

I am well aware of the NPPL regulations, my question is why is a NPPL student subject to entirely different regulations to a JAR one. He must complete all the ground exams and pass the NFT before solo qualifier. The JAR student does not. I doubt any instructor would send a student solo if he was not up to standard, NFT or not. I still think the 'experts' have got it wrong. On the subject of cost - the poor old students have enough expense to put up without paying for examiners twice! :confused:

[BEagle]

1. It's a NST, not NFT.

2. What you charge for Skill Tests is your own business; however, I charge £150 for a JAR-FCL PPL Skill Test or £75 for either a NPPL NST or GST. So the cost is the same - unless you're charging large travelling expenses.

3. The CAA 'recommends' taking the exams at intervals throughout the JAR-FCL PPL course so that an applicant's theoretical knowledege backs up the stage of flying they've reached. The only manadatory requirement is that all exams must have been passed before the applicant may take the JAR-FCL PPL Skill Test. It's the same for the NPPL and no, the theoretical exams do NOT have to be completed before the applicant takes the NST. Individual RFs and FTOs may - as I do - impose local rules to ensure that the applicant's theoretical knowledge keeps up with the flying training stage reached.

[juggernaut]

I charge £120 for a full skill test and no charge for a retest. I don't charge anything for travel. I am concious of the candidate paying £120 per hour for the aircraft and £9.00 per landing. Therefore a test can cost nearly £300 as it is. Its my personal view that an examiner should not test anyone who he/she has trained so in this case I think that the Jar regulations are correct. Its not just the skill tests being seperate that I dont agree with. Last week a nppl student sat the navigation ground exam. He was somewhat non-plussed by the radio aids questions in the paper!

[BEagle]

Which is why I wanted to evolve 'NPPL' versions of the current exams with the JAR-specific questions removed, but introduce a 'JAR-upgrade' paper to be taken later by those wishing to upgrade to a JAR-FCL PPL which would incorporate all such questions. But the CAA wouldn't accept that........

The FE handbook specifies when JAR-FCL applicants shall be allowed a 'free' PPL Skill Test re-test, I abide by those. But I don't consider that a 'partial pass' where the applicant has failed an element merits a free re-test.

[juggernaut]

What a mess!
JAR PPL 5 hours nav dual
5 hours nav solo
solo qual 150 nm
no test required till end of training

NPPL 5 hours nav dual
5 hours solo
solo qual 120 nm
nav skill test required before solo qualifier
GFT at end of training

nav exam - contains questions on nav aids despite no requirement under NPPL. so NPPL students have to study radio aids in order to pass the ground exam - even though they are given no training on them. Its time there was some standardisation between the two licences.

[BEagle]

Sorry - I don't agree.

The NPPL was evolved by those in the industry who are aware of those aspects of the JAR-FCL which they consider to be inappropriate for basic day VFR. The exam question is a different topic, that may well change in the future.

It is now possible to start with a NPPL with Microlight aircraft rating, then add a simple SEP rating at a later date when the applicant can afford it. Then, when the required JAR-FCL total of hours and mandatory training items have been achieved and the medical upgraded - all of which costs money - an applicant can upgrade to a JAR-FCL PPL(A).....then an IMC rating.....then a Night qualification.....then a CPL(A).....FI(R) rating....IR(A)....ATPL etc etc. Think of it as a modular, more affordable way of learning to fly.

After all, it was industry who said they wanted the NPPL - and the CAA is entirely content with the way it's been achieved.