Paying to become an ATCO?

[Caledonian]

Hi Folks,

Wonder if you could help me, l have been looking into becoming an ATCO for a while now and have relevant aviation experience with work and a ppl but that appears to be no use whatsoever if you dont have the academic qualifications to match of which l dont.

So just wanted to know how feasible is it to apporach an organisation who provide training to be an Air Traffic Controller and pay to be an ATCO, l realise this could sound desperate to some but am looking at all avenues possible to get in.

Does anybody know anyone who went down that route and if so.......how much did it cost??? was there a job on the end of the training???? did they pay for it themselves or have an understanding bank manager??? do other ATCO's look down upon self funded ATCO's??

Lots of questions l know but look forward to your replies, thanks a lot in advance.

Cheers
Caledonian :ok:

[Chilli Monster]

I did it for my Aerodrome Rating, with no job at the end of it.

After I passed the course I mailshot every non-NATS ATC unit looking for a job and got 30 rejections. I was relatively lucky inasmuch as I got a job as an assistant with the chance to validate my licence 2 months after.

It was a HUGE gamble. I've been lucky in that I've since got someone else to pay for my APP and APR courses. There are no guarantees that you will pass the course, which for ADC only is in the region of £15K plus - then you have to get a job and until you do you are an unknown quantity. Nobody is going to be beating a path to your door to employ you.

Be very sure you want to risk the money - and then be prepared for some heartache along the way.

[vintage ATCO]

As CM says, it is a huge gamble. An Aerodrome Course will cost you around £15K plus, if you don't live within easy commuting distance of the college, accommodation costs. These are over £200 a week. If you don't 'live in' you miss out on the camaraderie of the other students. It all helps.

There are assessments throughout the course. You could be chopped at any of those, so don't pay a lot of money upfront if you can avoid it, or get a cast iron guarantee of a part refund if you do.

After the course, if you pass, you still don't have a job. And you are a unknown quantity. You cannot get a student licence until you pass a course so can't 'have a go' and demonstrate your abilities beforehand (I still don't think we have got this right.) If you don't 'validate' your rating in a certain time then it will lapse (is this two years, I forget?)

I was the manager of a large ATC establishment once and use to receive many letters from students pleading to come along and validate their ADC ratings. We couldn't help them. I don't think I ever employed anyone who had self-financed, not because they were considered a lesser being, there was just a low staff turnover and when we did recruit we were always over subscribed with previously qualified applicants, a known quantity.

Sorry to sound so negative. No one would look down on you if do self-finance but it is very very tough to get your foot on the first rung of the ladder. Still, we are suppose to be short of ATCOs for the next few years so there ought to be jobs. Speak to ALL the smaller airports and see what they think.

Good luck to you. Send a PM if I can help further (I can't offer you a job, alas!)


------------------
vintage ATCO
www.stevelevien.com

[FoxRomeo]

Could you imagine working on mainland Europe? Here in Germany many of the non-DFS airports are desperately trying to get controllers. The costs are around €32k these days.

Drop me a line, if you need more info.

FR

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I wish you luck, but luck is the operative word. I recently retired after 30+ years as a Heathrow ATCO and my only "qualifications" are 2 "O" levels and a cycling proficiency test certificate. Educational qualifications are required by most employers but you'll find out through life that they mean very little; you either have the aptitude or not. I've attempted to train people with 1x1 degrees who just didn't stand a chance... but some ex-ATCAs with minimum quals have sailed through.

When the Min of Aviation turned me down as an ATCA I applied to every non-State airfield in the UK and 2 responded. I spent 6 months working at a tip in southern England before getting the sack for refusing to dig weeds out of the runway! I then got into IAL, which viewed aviations interests and enthusiasm to be far more important than "O" levels and I went from there. If you have no luck in the UK try abroad. It might be worth it just to get the experience and a foot in the door. If you do that - as I did - you'd very likely get into NATS (the best UK employer despite what the moaners say) based upon your ATC experience.

[niknak]

I would avoid doing it yourself and then applying to airports directly, as has already been said, the UK is awash with chopped NATS cadets who have an aerodrome rating and loads of enthusiasm for someone to take them on, we get about 4 such applications a month, and turn them all down because we only have future vacancies for atcos with all 3 ratings.

Try approaching SERCo Aviation, Sally Johnson or Peter Sands, offering to pay for your own aerodrome rating would hopefully put you one step ahead of the many other candidates who approach them.
If you fit the bill they'll send you for a college assessment, you may then be one of the lucky ones who gets the approach procedural and approach radar course at their expense.

But take on the advice already given, and the fact that if you are lucky enough to be selected, you'll be on an absolute minimum wage until you've passed all three courses.
Be prepared to work harder than you've ever had to before, if you know a good therapist that might help. :E
Posting will be then to wherever SERCo's needs are, not necessarily anywhere near your current home.

That said, once it's all over, you're in the best career I can think of, other jobs may pay more, but few give you the quality of life without the need to work 9 days a week and take the work home with you.

Alternatively, you could approach Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd, they would probably look at you favourably, but you'd only get the Aerodrome and Approach Procedural ratings out of them, followed by a posting to anywhere but Inverness, where the only real traffic is within their airports group.

Very best of luck.

[flower]

Caledonian,

You do not actually state what your academic background is. Last time I looked NATS still asked for GCSEs and for the applicants to have studied upto A level standard, but did not require actual A levels.

Have you looked into NATS recruitment, it may be worth applying even if you feel your academic qualifications fall short, if you have relevant Aviation experience they may waver on the qualifications.

Another route to look at is to actually gain employment within NATS in another department and from there try to get a chance at the selection tests.

I concur with Niknak its a great career , I wouldn't want to do anything else.
Good Luck
xx

[Caledonian]

An insight into my qualifications, l left school in 4th year (16 years old) with 6 GCSE's of which 1 is any use to NATS and no highers, l went to work for a helicopter company in operations and aircrew and now at an aircraft handling agent doing dispatch for the past 3 years, l also have a PPL Fixed Wing.

When l asked NATS if that was any use they said we will use your aviation background as 1 GSCE and my PPL as another so need another 2 GCSE's and 3 highers before they would be interested.

l will get the qualifications if l have to but this is why l am willing to pay for my training as it wont be such a gamble for them to take me on as l know l will pass and even if l didnt it would be me who pays for it and not company who were to take me on.

Sure appreciate all the replies so far, it has given me a good insight into what l want to do and if anyone else has any other useful information then please share it.

Thanks very much
Caledonian

[Scott Voigt]

Wow, only 32K Euros a year for a tower controller. No wonder they can't find anyone to take that. Even living on my retirement I don't think that I could afford to live the way I should be a custom in Germany on that...

Scott

[spekesoftly]

Scott,

It's not clear to me whether the €32k mentioned by FoxRomeo refers to salary or training costs?

[FoxRomeo]

the €32k mentioned above are the training costs at the ATC-Academy. Quite a stiff price, even considering German standards. Usually however, you'll be able to negociate a deal with your future employer somewhere in between you or them paying all of the costs.

Done that, you may expect between €0 and €2k during training, and €3k to €4.5k when rated.

For the collegues from the US: a C172 will cost you about €150 to €200 pr hour. Makes you wonder, why we still have some kind of aviation over here.

Cheers, FR

[Barnaby the Bear]

I spent months looking for an ADC only position. They are very very rare. I competed against numerous other applicants and the daft SATCO recruited me. But what I am trying to say, is that you really need ADC and Approach Procedural in order to stand a reasonable chance of finding a position after your training. Therefore alot more money and risk.

It is a fantastic job and I highly recommend it. But I would be very careful before handing over large sums of money which you could lose.

Good luck in whatever you decided.

Just so that you can have an idea I earn less that £25k doing ADC only!:{

[Evil J]

Caledonian,


I think some people are being a little harsh and negative. There are no certainties in life but the tower only jobs are out there, and getting more and more common with the increasing controller shortage.

All of the failed NATS cadets that I know-those who REALLY wanted too got jobs TWR only somewhere. OK they weren't pulling in big bucks but they were gaining experience and in most cases extra ratings eventually.

If you wanna do it speak to the colleges, find out how much its gonna cost, speak to the bank about a career development loan (u don't have to pay it back until you start earning) and if you like what you hear go for it.

If you want more info about some places that I KNOW hire tower only people or on the above PM me.

[Barnaby the Bear]

I don't want to be negative. And I can only go from my experiences. I spent 9 months calling and writing to just about every non NATS aerodrome that had ATC. I found that they required APP.
I wouldn't want to disuade anybody from becoming an ATCO.:}

P.S the reason for Non-Nats applications was, they don't take on Non APC rated ATCO's to work in the tower.:{

[hitthefan]

it is tough but the only advice that i would offer is this :
If you are determined to become an ATCO then approach HIAL first with a proposal, at least that way you would you would be assured of a job at the end of the course.
as for adr only HIAL are the highest wage payers especialy if you you dont object to living in SHETLAND. I here that they are earning more as an ADR controller than the most of the Serco guys & dolls !:{

All that said I stayed with friends to cut down on the living expences.

need any other info send a pm

"You know its going to"

Hitthefan

[fweemer]

Sorry hitthefan
I fear you are sadly misinformed re: Serco Shetland pay.
Toodling off to count my hard earned spons...