Flight deck visit

[ukhomerj]

Can someone please advise me on the best way to ensure a flight deck visit. I understand that sinced 9/11 life at airlines has changed dramatically, but are visits at the discretion of the Captain.

I will be flying to Crete with one of the tour carriers, and was hoping to sit in the jump seat for a landing.

I am a mature student PPL pilot, with ambitions to become a Flying Instructor, as I will be too old to become an airline pilot by the time I have completed all of my required training.

Any advice will be great.

[AlanM]

It doesn't look good me thinks.

They have even stopped the official Famil flights for ATCO's (we were entitled to one a year)

Good luck anyway

[M.Mouse]

If it is an ailine operating under a British Air Operators Certificate then it is contrary to the regulations that we have to adhere to.

Cannot speak for other countries but it is becoming almost universal that jumpseat access is severely restricted.

Great shame but a sign of the times.

If you ask, a quick visit before or after the flight is probably the best that you will be able to achieve.

[Jetdriver]

Not allowed in the UK or US or most other countries any more. You can often ask for a visit on the ground.

Alan ATCO famil flights are still permitted subject to the usual constraints.

[Bright-Ling]

I think you will find that us ATCO's are still not allowed on the flight deck - even on famil flights.

But this has been done to the death on here:(

(If yr airline allows ATC fam flights please let me know!)

[Devils Advocate]

As it presently stands, nobody except the operating crew are allowed to be in the cockpit of a UK registered airliner - this is a regulation passed down from the UK DfT ( Department of Transport ) and enforced by edicts from the UK CAA.

There are however ( and of course ) some exceptions to this use of flightdeck jumpseats, e.g. it can be used by company staff, ATC people on famil fights, CAA staff doing checks, people with permission of both the company Ops Manager/Director and the Captain - and always requiring the permission of the Captain.

The rules are such that we now have to lock the cockpit door prior to starting the engines, and the door must remain locked at all times ( albeit with some obvious exceptions ), until after the engines are shutdown.

The exceptions to the flightdeck door being locked are when a cabin crew member requires a visit for operational reasons and / or to enter to tend to the needs of the flight crew, e.g. to bring me in a cup of tea or some grub or when I wish to stretch my legs ( in all senses of the phrase ). In the latter instance, prior to me leaving the flight deck, we must summon a member of the cabin crew, they then go through the door opening procedure to gain entry into the cockpit, I then leave it, and they lock the door behind me....... and it’s all done in reverse when I want to come back in again – it’s a right ‘ole rigmarole.

Coming soon, i.e. in the next few months ( as required under the new official Dft & CAA edicts ) will be surveillance cameras that will monitor the gangway area immediately outside and to the sides of the flight deck door with a television monitor installed on the flight deck – which I must admit might actually come in handy to see if there’s any top totty onboard. ;)

So, all in all I would rate your chances of getting a cockpit visit, whilst the aircraft is in flight, as between "some chance and no chance !" – about the best you could hope for is a quick peek during the disembarking process – sorry.

Alternatively why not go down to your local airfield and book a 'trial lesson' for yourself ? That way you’ll certainly get to see out of the front as well as have the thrill of flying the aircraft yourself, and it’s really not that pricey for a quick 30 minutes of aeronautical fun.

[Jetdriver]

Breit-ling.

They are, and my airline does. I was doing one on Monday but my roster has changed. You say "even on famil flights " actually it is ONLY on famil flights that have gone through the proper authorization procedure.

[Bright-Ling]

Conflicting stories.....!

I think that it is great that your airline allows it. Are yuo at Liberty to say which one?

[Meeb]

Devils advocate, did you even bother to read ukhomerj's question? He states that he is a student pilot, so I imagine he has had more than a 'trial lesson'.

You are also wrong regards use of the 'jump seat'. Non operating crew are allowed to use it at the discretion of the commander. The occupant muct be company personnel.

DA, try harder, there is enough drivel on here these days without peeps not reading the blooming question... :mad:

[Devils Advocate]

You have my apologies about failing to take ukhomerj's student PPL status into account - very much indeed a case of rtfq. :O

I have also edited my post above to make it somewhat clearer - I hope (?).

Further, and to help clarify the position on what is and is not allowed in repsect of access to the flight deck and use of the jumpseat(s), I've cut & pasted a section from Part A of my company's Operations Manual - which is a CAA approved / controlled document - and I'm confident that most other airlines version of this reads similarly:


Operations Manual – Part A - Procedures

8.3.12 - Admission To Flight Deck

8.3.12.1 Passengers are not permitted to visit the Flight Deck at any time. The Flight Deck door is to remain locked after takeoff and access by authorised personnel only is permitted in line with company procedures.

8.3.12.2 Provided only that the safety of the aeroplane will not be compromised, authorised inspectors from the CAA and company Auditors are permitted to enter and remain on the flight deck in flight when suitable facilities exist (e.g. a jumpseat), for the performance of their official duties.

8.3.12.3 Staff members, both on and off duty, may be carried on the flight deck, when suitable facilities exist, at the discretion of the aeroplane commander.

8.3.12.4 The Captain will ensure that:

(a) All persons carried on the flight deck are made familiar with the relevant safety and operational procedures;
(b) Admission to, and carriage on, the flight deck does not compromise safety.

Note: The Captain has the absolute authority to refuse admission to and/or carriage on the flight deck for whatever reason.


8.3.13 - Use Of Vacant Crew Seats

The Captain has full discretion in the use of any crew seat except that in no circumstances may any spare flight deck seat (“jump seat”) passenger be permitted to occupy any operating crew member’s seat or touch any of the controls.

A CAA Flight Operations Inspector travelling on duty has authority to occupy any spare flight deck seat (“jump seat”), and the Captain may decline such a request only if he considers the Inspector’s presence prejudicial to flight safety.

The occupancy of a vacant flight crew seat on the flight deck or crew seat in the cabin by a person who is not a member of the operating flight or cabin crew is permitted providing the following conditions detailed below and in para 8.3.13.1 are complied with:

(a) any applicable AFM limitation is observed:
(b) the person is assessed as able to operate self help exits in compliance with para 8.2.2.1(a)(i) above;
(c) the person has the permission of the Operations Manager and the aeroplane commander;
(d) the person is in possession of a valid passenger/staff ticket;
(e) the aeroplane commander ensures that the person is properly briefed on safety procedures and equipment, and relevant operating procedures;
(f) the aeroplane commander emphasises the importance of avoiding contact with, or operation of, any control or switch;
(g) multiple seat occupancy is not permitted.

It is Company policy to support the international practice of carrying representatives from Air Traffic Services and other similar bodies on route familiarisation flights where it is Company’s view that the individual will benefit from observing take-off and landing procedures from the jump seat.

The following additional guidance is given to Captains on use of the “jump” seat(s).

There is nothing in law to prevent the Captain from allowing use of the “jump” seat(s) by passengers for take-off and landing. On occasion it may be desirable or necessary.

Normally, Company staff may be accommodated without concern, but in all other cases the Captain should take account of factors such as the following:

(a) Is the passenger known to him personally?
(b) Has the passenger any legitimate reason for being on the flight deck, i.e. with knowledge and experience in a relevant field of aviation, or as a representative of an aircraft, engine or equipment manufacturer?
(c) What is the age and physical and mental state of the passenger? The minimum age should normally be 12 years.
(d) Might it be better to put cabin crew in the “jump” seat(s) thus releasing additional seats in the passenger cabin? - see paragraph above.
(e) Passengers travelling on flight deck “jump” seats must not be served nor consume alcoholic beverages.

As can be seen, the part relevant to ukhomerj's request seems to be 8.3.12.1 - indeed technically even a quick peek is not allowed.

W.r.t. other people ( who are not staff ) occupying a flightdeck jumpseat the section 8.3.13.c has a nice little 'and' word in it, i.e. the Operations Manager / Director needs to give permission too, i.e. it is NOT just on the say so of the skipper ( albeit that other airlines Ops Manual might be less restrictive ).

[Duck-U-Suckerz]

Can't see anything in that which would stop;
1/ A Wife, Son or other Fam/member,
2/ Keen PPL student,
3/ ATCO,
4/ Deadheader,
From obtaining permit form the Ops. manager and Skipper to have a Jumpseat Ride if it was prearrainged.
But it would seem to preclude one from just 'popping one's head around the cockpit door on the off chance.
In fact if this is currant, it dosen't sound anything like as bad as we thought it would be when Danny started his poll on the subject.
Or am I missing something?

[ukhomerj]

We have received the tickets, and the flight is an Air 2000 from Manchester to Gatwick, collect more passengers, then off to sunny Crete.
So this begs the question, what sort of turn around time will the crew have, and would I be the proverbial pain in the backside asking for a flight deck visit.
I sometimes get the impression that you commercial airline boys look down on us poor PPL people, and especially students.
Should I just sit quietly in the back and swot for my Air Law exam.