Vandals destroy more aircraft

[Fly Stimulator]

I read about the vandalism at Felthorpe recently with anger, but today I found out how it actually feels when I got a call this morning from Redhill to say that five aircraft, including mine, had been badly damaged by vandals ramming them with a stolen car.

According to the police who I spoke to, this is the sort thing that happens when the nation's youth are on holiday as they are at the moment.

My own aircraft (the CT in the blue covers) was only eight months old, and needless to say I had all sorts of plans for the summer until today.
Might be a good time to check the security at all your fields - I would hate this to happen to others as well.

http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/damage/G-KATZ%20tie%20downs%20in%20foreground.jpg



http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/damage/RANS%201.jpg


http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/damage/Cessna%202.jpg

http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/damage/Jab.jpg

[Monocock]

Genuinely sorry to see those pictures.

Words fail me when I think of the kind of jeaulous pricks who could do such a thing.

I wish you and the police the best of luck finding the culprits.
When I see things like this happen I can't help wondering where our army get their enthusiasm from to defend this country like they have for the past five weeks.

Try and keep smiling



:(

[FNG]

That is truly appalling. You have my deepest sympathy. I dread to think how vulnerable most parked or hangared aircraft are to vandalism and arson. I have seen adverse comment about the new security fencing at Sywell, but perhaps we all face that in the future.

I despair at the cause. I live in an area where million quid houses are a few minutes slouch from some wretched estates. The streets are patrolled by the blank faced, hooded top wearing youths of the underclass. They look into the brightly lit houses with their books, paintings and antiques and at the shiny cars parked outside and think only of destroying what they see: they don't appear to have any aspirations even to get things for themselves. Part of me sympathises with their hopeless situation, the other part of me would like them to be force fed to their parents on live television. Arrrgh, it is hateful to turn into a Daily Telegraph columnist.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Utterly utterly criminal.

My deepest sympathy to everybody whose aircraft were damaged, and I hope most sincerely that the culprits are caught and suitably and severely punished.

Fly Stimulator, if I can do anything to help with the wheels of insurance, officialdom, etc. in getting the CT up again as fast as possible, give me a call. Although, under the circumstances, I do hope that your insurance replaces it with a new aircraft.

G

[flyingwysiwyg]

Fly Stimulator,

Really sorry to read this :(

Hope you and your colleagues at Redhill get up and flying again ASAP.

I'm not going to waste my breath giving an opinion on the Amoebas that did this.

:*

FWyg

[MLS-12D]

I certainly hope that you and the other aircraft owners are insured - not that insurance money can do much to help salvage this flying season for you :mad: - but it is appalling to think that eveyone's insurance premiums will be adversely affected by such stupid, pointless acts. :{

I'm not holding my breath about the vandals being severely punished if they are caught. No doubt they are underprivileged, misunderstood and disadvantaged youths more deserving of sympathy and encouragement than condemnation.:rolleyes:

[rustle]

Fly Stimulator

I'd say this is unbelievable, but sadly it isn't.

Chin up! One day we, as a society, will deal with these vermin.

I can't turn the clock back, and I can't help fix the damage, but if you need a flying-fix whilst your's is repaired - give me a shout :)

[Davidt]

I hope these ba*tards are caught and flogged, but more likley they'll get a few hours community service.

deepest sympathy to all the owners

[Andy_R]

Absolutely horrifying to view these pictures. Speechless :*

My heart goes out to all those affected. Not nice, feeling so helpless to offer any assistance.

[Unwell_Raptor]

You have my profound sympathy. I am involved at the lowest level of the criminal justice system, and it does me no harm to be reminded of the horrible experience of being a crime victim, even though my wife and I have been victims ourselves in the last few years.

The loss you suffered is a form of defilement; these weren't just any old school aircraft, they were personal - even more personal that any car could be.

Looking forward, as my father always encouraged me to do, let's hope that you soon get back up to soar above the scrum on the ground, and to remind yourself that those vandals will never be more than earthbound oafs, you will continue to climb and to soar in the clear sunlight.

Good luck.

[ModernDinosaur]

Fly Stimulator - my vocabulary fails me. I can't even begin to imagine how you and your fellow pilots feel at the moment. As others have said, if I can do anything to help, you only have to ask.

It saddens me that such a thing could happen at Redhill, especially after all the recent "security improvements".

Oh, and flyingwysiwyg - please stop insulting amoebas.

With heavy heart,

MD.

[Fly Stimulator]

Thanks very much everybody. I still feel gutted at the moment, but I do very much appreciate the moral support.

I was due to spend Easter at a charity fly-in in Ireland and I'm still planning to make that, albeit for a much shorter visit now, in an aircraft borrowed from a friend, so the bastards haven't grounded me yet!

My aircraft is insured, but I suspect that the time required to process a claim, whether write-off or repair, will consume the summer at least.


Thanks again,
FS.

[Bottle Fatigue]

I can't understand why anyone would want to do this.

Make sure you get back into the air as soon as possible FS, just to spite the sods who did it.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Fly Stimulator

I'd like to echo what everyone else has said - my deepest sympathy.

Glad to hear you're going to be airborne again soon :D

If what the police said it right, I'm totally and utterly ashamed to be in the same generation as those worthless sh!ts :sad:

tKF

[Whirlybird]

Fly Stimulator,
I can't really add much to what everyone else has said. I felt quite sick even just looking at those photos; I really feel for you. Glad to hear you're at least going to manage to fly over Easter.

KentishFledgling,
Age/youth and generation has nothing to do with it; no-one in any way associates you with these b@stards. There are good and bad of all ages.

[Mr Wolfie]

Fly Stimulator

I feel absolutely gutted for you & all the other aircraft owners. I can't believe how dignified & expletative-free your original post was. If it happened to me I would be boiling over. Your measure & composure does you credit.

I can't offer any more than moral support, but best wishes, & I hope that the insurance bods get you sorted out and in the air again ASAP.

Mr. W

[QDMQDMQDM]

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how I'd feel if someone did that to my beloved yellow peril. I hope you're back in the air soon.

QDM

[niknak]

I fail to understand why anyone would do this sort of thing.

However, I do not subscribe to the small minded arrogance of MLS and FNG who automatically blame "the youths of today", whilst having absolutely no memory or understanding of that age group, or tolerance of anyone under the age of 18. :sad:
They also obviously have an insight as to who actually perpatrated the crime, so perhaps the plod should be knocking on their doors first.

The damage at Felthorpe was arson, deliberate and well planned according to the police and fire brigade, it wouldnt suprise me if this was a similar sort of thing.

[FNG]

Thank you, niknak, for altering the tone of this thread with your insulting rermarks. Would you prefer me to comment admiringly on the excellent planning and daring execution of the raid? A crime of this type has every indication of an act motivated by anti-social impulses, of the kind frequently demonstrated by a-socialised young people. Absent extreme nimbyism, which is not impossible but seems unlikely, there is no other likely motive for what appears to be pure vandalism. If you read my post, you might notice that I exposed myself to a different type of flaming from yours, by indicating that it is even possible to regret the conditions which generate the typical perpetrators of anti-social behavior, ranging from graffiti, through joy riding, to this sort of thing. I even said, and now repeat, that I can sympathise with the socially excluded (although this does not detract from my unequivocal condemnation of this incident and of its perpetrators). No one has flamed me for that, this being perhaps a reflection of the usually tolerant and good mannered ethos of this forum.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Come on chaps, if you want to criticise anybody but the perpretrators of this crime, this isn't the place to do it. Pprune has Email and messaging for private discussion, and it's best kept there.

G

[FNG]

Private discussions are fine if people display reasonable manners. It seems legitimate to discuss here what sort of people might have done this.

[Hersham Boy]

How upsetting to see - particularly as a fellow Redhill flyer. I hope the claims are smooth, if nothing else. You have my sympathies.

It looks, from the pics, as if the aircraft were down on the Cloudbase 'corner'? Maybe a 'security improvement' is required down that end, too...?

Hersh

[Circuit Basher]

Fly StimulatorWords (and insurance) are obviously inadequate at the moment. All I can offer is heartfelt sympathy and hope that you are able to get the CT (or its replacement) airborne with minimal delays.

It's pictures like these that make me feel that Sharia law is not all bad!!

Sorry that you have been visited at your airfield by the great unwashed. Maybe if you find them, you should point them at your local ATC Sqn so that they can not only be exposed to a bit of discipline, but also brought into contact with those who have a love for aviation and maybe have some respect for flying machines instilled in them. I certainly know that many of the young hooligans we get in at 13 yrs old at our Sqn leave with a slightly increased awareness and respect for things avian.

[TheKentishFledgling]

niknak - I don't want to fuel this debate at all, but I don't think it was "small minded arrogance" at all.

In Fly Stimulator's first post in the thread, he says:

According to the police who I spoke to, this is the sort thing that happens when the nation's youth are on holiday as they are at the moment.

which I think implies the police think it is the "yoofs".

tKF

[stiknruda]

Dear Oh Dear. Behaviour like this is intolerable - whether 13 or 31.

Should they bring back capital punishment - I would have no qualms about pulling the lever or pressing the button. Scum!

Fly Stimulator - I have a two seat vintage taildragger that you are very welcome to come and fly until you are sorted, aeroplane wise.

On a +ve note, I have a close friend who lost a Pitts in the Felthorpe conflagration. We did some joint research and he is now the very proud owner of a far nicer Pitts. Hopefully you will be as fortunate.

Stik

[keendog]

Those of you with damaged aircraft should bear in mind that if your aircraft is uninsured, if the police manage to identify the driver (this is crucial) and subject to a possible argument about the extent to which the airfield is a public place then you may be able to claim for the damage against the Motor Insurers' Bureau or the insurers (if any) of the vehicle that was stolen/used.
It would therefore be worthwhile having the damage surveyed at an early stage, keeping the pressure up to identify the culprits and, if the driver is identified, consulting a solicitor with experience of road traffic claims who does not give you a blank look if you mention the term MIB.
Further suggestions available if needed.

[Mike Cross]

It hurts that there is so little one can do.

When faced with an injustice you want to publicise it, but that would do nothing to prevent future incidents and might encourage copyists.

Catching and punishing the perpetrators would do nothing to deter others and there is no way that they would have the means to redress the wrong they have done.

Good luck with the claims and I hope you are all back in the air soon.

Mike

[jayemm]

This is a dreadful story, my sympathies to all those whose aircraft were damaged by this mindless or malicious act.

I just hope this story doesn't hit the news in anyway, since the real morons are the copycats who pick up that this is another form of destructive entertainment. No amount of comment on the idiots who did this will make any difference (apart from venting anger and frustration), and unfortunately I can see on the horizon the potential for increased security measures (and therefore cost) for airfields and aircraft owners.

[FlyingForFun]

Can't think of anything to add, except to say that you're welcome to a flight in my Europa any time I happen to be flying and don't have another pax lined up - hopefully if several of us make similar offers your entire flying season won't be totally wasted.

Jayemm, I'm afraid it's too late - I read about this, and saw similar pictures, in The Sun before I'd even logged on to PPRuNe this morning.

FFF
----------------

[DamienB]

Utter scum... many sympathies Fly Stimulator.

Given my own experience of having my car smashed up Xmas before last, I don't hold much hope of the Police being any help at all I'm afraid. I could ID the person who did it - I saw them do it - they were a known scumbag, yet they refused to arrest them as it was 'my word against his'. More to the point the back seat of their panda car was full of folders and clothing so it'd have meant too much work clearing it out to get the scumbag in the car.

The baseball hat/hood brigade seem to be intent on mindless destruction no matter where you are the country these days. :mad:

[phnuff]

Words fail !! and so does the law because if they were caught in the act and given a good kicking, it would be the kicker not the car driver who gets the worse sentence.

(I think I may be turning into a Mail reader, and words fail at that prospect too!!)

[Fly Stimulator]

Thanks again everybody, both for the messages here and for the PMs and offers of flights while I wait to see how long it will be before my aircraft is either repaired or written off.

Although I have no reason to doubt the policeman's educated guess as to those responsible, I wouldn't want to condemn the whole of today's youth as a result. Redressing the balance a little there's a young local lad who helps out at Redhill to earn money for flying lessons and who is the exact opposite of the kind of pond life responsible for yesterday's vandalism.

There's a story from the local paper here (http://www.theflyingschool.co.uk/will.htm) about his recent first solo, achieved just after his 16th birthday.

[Tiger_ Moth]

What a shower of B*****DS!!!! So sorry FS, if someone did that to my plane (if I had one) I'd want to hunt them down and beat them with their own shoes. Really sad thing is they're probably under 18 so they'll get some pathetic community service sentence or something and walk away from court laughing as they go off to mug someone or nick something because they know the law is ridiculously weighted in their favour. If only you could give the pr**ks a damn good beating then they might stop.

[tacpot]

I am very sorry about your loss. I cannot comprehend how someone could enjoy destroying something as beautiful as an aircraft. I hope the scum are caught and are made to replace or rebuild every one of the damaged aircraft.

A very sad day.

[Sir George Cayley]

Just seen this thread so a bit late in adding my sympathies, having owned a number of beloved aircraft I was shocked to see such wanton vandalism.

I was also disturbed to learn that an article had appeared in the "popular" press. Copy cat crimes appear to be a fact of modern life so are other airfields potential targets?

My home base has dozens of a/c parked out and is wide open to vehicular access. In fact tyre tracks are sometimes found on the morning inspection. We have a security guard but I wouldnt want to think of him attempting any heroics. Lives are still more important than machines. (Though in some cases its a close run thing)

Sir George Cayley

The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door

[MLS-12D]

Will Coombes, good on you! An inspiration for young people everywhere. :ok:

[Wolram]

Hi FS - Really sorry to see those pictures - I havn't been to redhill
,so i; speaking blind as it were -is there no way that security
cameras ,which are now very cheap and easy to install , would stop this in the future , we successfully stopped some fly tipping
just by erecting official signs saying 'hidden security cameras' .

I feel very concerned that deserted aerodromes are going to
receive more and more of these attacks , these youths ,and I'll bet a pound to a penny it was youths , get really fired up on booze and glue !! its frightening what a few 'kids' can do .

Our local junior 'mafia' threw half a brick at my wife's car whilst
she was returning from friends recently , the police woman who
eventually came said there was nothing she could do ,when I said
I felt like giving them a good thrashing she said to make sure
they were hit on the body so that marks would not be visible !!

Later that night 'allegedly ' a man in dark clothing jumped out on these young people , in fact they were in a back lane drinking , and beat the crap out of four of them with a walking stick 'allegedly' . whoever that was I really don't know :ok:

However - on another matter attacks could come from other directions - first hunting ,( I think that a lot of the anti protesters
don't care too much for the fox - they just assume that the guy on the horse in a red coat is a 'toff' despite the fact that these days he could be a clerk, lorry driver , postman or whatever )
I think these vandals assimilate flying with being awfully rich
and only for toffs - so if they can't have they want to wreck it for us !! ...

FS - once again really really sorry mate - put it behind you
as soon as you can and if you need to borrow any dark clothing
:E

Wolram

[411A]

According to a friend of mine, who has worked for the FBI for sometime, if this were to happen in the USA, the culprits, when apprehended, would face...
20 years in the federal slammer plus a $250,000 fine,
at a minimum.
Locally, a thief who was caught stealing radios out of parked aircraft, has been held in the local county jail for over a year (no bail allowed) awaiting trial. He faces 10 years and a $150,000 fine.

The TSA means business, and all local public general aviation airports will ultimately be required to provide increased security (fencing, card-operated gates, etc.) and federal funds are available for the purpose.

My recommendation would be to shoot the perps on sight.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Following on from 411A's post..........

A good friend of mine got back from America a few weeks ago, and said that while they were there, they saw two kids pissing against a wall late one evening.

Two police officers saw this, and straight away the kids went with the police to the station, where they'd have been given a $xx fine, which had to be paid before they left the station.

My friend spoke to an American bystander when they saw this happen, and this person said that the kids simply wouldn't not respond to the police officers, simply, cos they carry guns.

Now I know from having seen things like this happen in this country, that if it happened in a UK city at night, the kids would laugh, and run from the police, and nothing more would happen.

tKF

[Flyboy-F33]

Cant find the words to describe how this makes me feel.

If anyone should find the names and addresses of the perps. please forward them, as I have a number of friends that would like to pay them a visit with a view to pointing out the error of their ways.

http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/anym/hanged.gif

[Fly Stimulator]

Spoke to the police this morning. No leads yet, but they raised no objections to my proposal to take the perpetrators a few thousand feet up and then let them make their own way home from there.

[F-Nick ATCO]

To all that had a/c damaged,

We are really sorry to see what happened and our sympathies go out to all of you.

If there is any way we can help, don't hesitate to contact us.

F-Nick :( and "us upstairs"

[knobbygb]

I wasn't going to reply to this thread - words honestly failed me. The only thing I could think of saying was somthing along the lines of 'Wouldn't happen in the USA' - wasn't going to bother, but having read 411A's comment I have to agree (for once). One of the things I really hate about this country is the attitude of 'If I can't have that then nobody else is going to either'. Anyone who wants to do somthing a bit different here (whether that be learn to fly, start their own business or simply have their own opinion about how they live their life) is onto a loser, and I personally can't wait to get out of this sh1thole.

FS, sorry if my comments are of no particular help - as you can tell I'm just a little bit annoyed by this, and other such things. You're obviously dealing with this in a rational, calm and considered manner - good luck to you, you deserve better.

[treadigraph]

That really stinks FS, I echo all the thoughts of the others and wish you a speedy and happy resolution, and a slow and horrible retribution to the b@ast@rds concerned.



When I used to visit Redhill as a kid, what sticks in my mind most (after the treasures in the Tiger Club hangar; and my thanks to the people therein who were always glad to see us!) was the horribly efficient airfield security guard (has my mind added Jack Boots to the image unfairly?) who would order us off the airfield pronto. Is that level of security now absent?

I can recall an arson attack on a Rallye at Biggin a couple of decades ago - is overnight vandalism at airfields more common now, or is this a (fortunately) rare occurence?

Treadders

[Tim_CPL]

I know this will not make you feel any better, but as an ex-pat living in TX, it is comforting to know that this type of crime over here, is a federal crime, for which you WILL get time in a state Penitentiary :-

U.S. Code, Title 18

Section 32. Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities

(a) Whoever willfully -
(1) sets fire to, damages, destroys, disables, or wrecks any
aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United
States or any civil aircraft used, operated, or employed in
interstate, overseas, or foreign air commerce;
......

shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not more than twenty years or both.

Ouch!

Good luck finding the d**k h***s and the loss adjusters.

[Fly Stimulator]

shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not more than twenty years or both.

If only! :sad:

[whats_the_use]

shocking photographs. should be shot.

[White Shadow]

Oh, Fly Stim, that's awful.
I had a flight in a CT yesterday. Can't believe anybody'd do that to a lovely aeroplane - or to any of the others.
Makes you weep.
Hope everything goes OK with the insurance.
WS

[BuzzBuzz]

Absolutely disgusting......................

Gone are the days when you only had to worry about things being stolen out your aeroplane! I had a radio stolen and that was sickening enough......I cannot even imagine how all those affected are feeling.

I hope those idiots are caught and taught a damn good lesson.

How are the insurance companies reacting?

[sennadog]

Fly - absolutely terrible to see G-KATZ on his side like that. I just read about it in the local rag (which I'll save for you) and discovered what had happened.

When he comes back from the doctor's can you also get them to re-stencil the port and starboard markings correctly on the covers to save me the confusion?:ok:

Sorry to hear about this and the Cloud Base aircraft as well. Bagsy take the offenders for some Spinning when they are caught!

[Fly Stimulator]

When he comes back from the doctor's...
I'm afraid that's still an if rather than a when at the moment. :(

The insurance claim process is underway, but there is no decision yet on write-off vs repair. The only certainty seems to be that nothing is going to happen quickly.

[BlipOnTheRadar]

FS

I really sympathise with you. I cannot imagine what you felt when first seeing the result of this act of mindless vandalism.

I agree that the perpetrators should be hunted down and executed, they have proved themselves to be worthless human-beings and their absence will only be missed by the fact that ones pride and joy will remain in the same condition as one left it.

The only people I know who have such a disregard for general aviation are employed at Aviation House... maybe the police should pay them a visit.

When I was in the States, the town where I stayed had a curfew for teenages. Any found outside after 22:00 were arrested. Sounds like a good scheme. Knowing the rules and deliberately breaking them is virtually a confession of perpetraing nefarious activities. Why can't we have such laws in this country?

Once again I am deeply saddened by you post and heartbreaking pictures, I hope you return to the sky as soon as possible.

BlipOnTheRadar

[TheKentishFledgling]

When I was in the States, the town where I stayed had a curfew for teenages. Any found outside after 22:00 were arrested. Sounds like a good scheme. Knowing the rules and deliberately breaking them is virtually a confession of perpetraing nefarious activities. Why can't we have such laws in this country?

As it's grossly unfair on those teenagers that are responsible and don't go around committing mindless acts of vandalism and such like??

:* :confused:

tKF

[BlipOnTheRadar]

TKF

Point taken, however the responsible, well balanced, well behaved majority who respect other people and their property can always have a parent or guardian accompany or transport them. It is the deviant few with the intention to harm or destroy that which does not belong to them, that are being singled out.

It may be draconian, but it is effective.

I can't imagine any parent agreeing to take their children joy-riding or vandalising parked aircraft.

Just my opinion, if you find it offensive I'm sorry. Our experiences determine the way we think and behave.

BlipOnTheRadar

[FNG]

"Blunkett proposes new legislation: all teenagers to be preceded on foot by man with reg flag".

That is the sort of thing which Blunky would probably go for, but don't mind Radar Blip, TKF. You will have noted Blip's moderate suggestion of executing vandals and the gratuitous side-swipe at the CAA (I am told that the CAA has an alibi for the night of the incident). Probably just winding you up. No one could seriously contemplate a generalised curfew.

Best of luck, Fly Stim, with the insurance claim.

[Whirlybird]

Fly Stimulator,

That's just terrible, and I really feel for you, and I don't know what to say...if I haven't said all this on this thread already.

But let's not use this terrible incident as an excuse for teenager bashing. TKF is absolutely right; you can't impose a curfew on all young people because of what a few do. So, it was the young this time...but it might not have been. A pensioner knocked a friend of mine off her bike and seriously injured her when he stepped out without looking...so do we keep all pensioners off the pavements? People from London can't drive properly on our North Wales mountain roads, so maybe we should ban the lot of 'em. Come to think of it, a red-haired albino thief was caught in the next town last week; so let's impose restrictions on all red-haired.... I'm sure you get my point.

[Bootlegger]

Just a few points here.......(Firstly), great sympathy for the owners of the aircraft...........(secondly), i hate the fact that a lot of people in this country, not just teenagers, resent the fact that others have achievements/assets. Im no analyst, so i dont have the answers...but in other countries i find people more easy going about the fact, and not screwed up with self devouring envy. (Saying that......) before taking up my flight training...i was expecting fellow pilots to be "snobbish"....this is not the case at all......they are probably the most "down to earth" people i know.
(Thirdly,)......im quite surprised at the total lack of security at some general aviation aerodromes........in the middle of nowhere, with no security guard etc...i know it costs money but....... .
Its not just theft /vandalism....but after 9/11 there's other threats.
I love flying and i know how i would feel if some W*nker had deliberately damaged my aeroplane...........but keep your head up, what "goes round comes round"........the authorities will catch the crooks...probably think it would rehabilitate them by giving them a trial flight....YOU take them to 3000ft....and chuck the b*stards out.......................simple aint it ;)

[BlipOnTheRadar]

I apologise to one and all

...for suggesting that we should live in a crime-free society. I am deeply sorry.

Catching and imprisoning criminals is indeed a violation of their human rights. I stand corrected.

Please accept my apology, I admit it, I was wrong.

BlipOnTheRadar

[BlackRat]

You might be interested to know that it would appear that it was NOT teenagers. The local constabulary are actively seeking out an individual who they wish to talk to regarding this terrible act.

[Tiger_ Moth]

Blip, your ridiculous idea is almost as infuriating as those vandals. By your logic if I wanted to go to see a film that finished after 10 I should be accompanied by my mum because I'm 19. How about just making the sentance harder for those who are caught vandalising/mugging etc rather than imposing idiotic laws that punish the majority for the mistakes of the few. I agree with TKF. They should just make it so that anybody commiting a crime who is under 18 is not immediately dealt in a completely ineffective and stupidly leniant way.

[Whirlybird]

Blip,

I don't know about teenagers, but why don't you GROW UP!!!!!!!!!

[Aussie Andy]

Whirlybird - not sure you can be both red-haired and Albino!?...

Sorry, couldn't resist :O

Andy

[TheKentishFledgling]

BlipOnTheRadar

If you think you're the only person here who'd like to live in a crime free society, I'll tell you now I think you're very wrong.

I don't think you were wrong at all thinking it's important that criminals should be caught - most people on here would definatley agree with that!

I quote from your earlier post.....
Point taken, however the responsible, well balanced, well behaved majority who respect other people and their property can always have a parent or guardian accompany or transport them.

Are you saying that teenagers shouldn't be allowed out without a parent / gaurdian after certain hours? If this is so, what happens when the young adult reaches the age where they are allowed out alone? Surely it would be rather daunting for them? And could it not be seen as punishing the many for the errors of the few?

To go off at a slight tangent from the original thread (I hope you don't mind, Fly Stimulator)................

I'll admit that I drink in pubs, even though in the eyes of that law I'm not old enough. My parents are aware of this, and know that I am sensible enough to behave properly, and know that if I get asked challenged on the age front, I won't lie or argue at all.

Many of my friends also drink in pubs, and I know of many people my age (and older) that also do, but face bigger problems than myslef and my friends.

I'm generalising horrifically here, but I would say that the people that face problems with pubs more are the "yoofish" people that have been spoken of in the thread.
From my experience, they will also be a lot less welcome in most pubs than the people that know how to behave (like I think / hope I can).

As a result of going to pubs, I've spent a fair time walking from one place to another on streets that are often invested with yoofish figures that have problems interacting with normal human beings.

If the police want to stop crime, in my opinion, they have "got to get" these yoofish figures. As I said in an earlier post on this thread, I think our police force fails miserabley in this respect - but we can't change that.

Stopping under 18s (or whatever) going on the streets alone isn't going to help anything - it's going amplify the problem tenfold. By saying kids can't do something is only going to make it worse.

If the police really do want to solve the crime problem in this country, they've got to change the way they act towards kids, and cut out all the bureaucratic crap and get on with their job - again, see my earlier post.

This is all purely my opinion, and I could understand if you think I'm contradicting myself, admitting in one breath I drunk in pubs, but then saying in the same breath that young offenders should be dealt with more harshly. But my overall view is that you have to look at the severity of the crimes, and punish accordingly.

tKF

PS Very said Whirly!!!!!

[BlipOnTheRadar]

I can see I have trodden on a few toes, that was not my intention. I have apologised in my previous post and I apologise once again, please accept it.

I am sorry. :(

BlipOnTheRadar

[TheKentishFledgling]

BOTR - S'cool mate - put it down to a bad day :8

tKF

[Ian_Wannabe]

C'mon guys I think you're being a bit harsh on old Blip here.

He was merly suggesting a soloution to the problems of the area, if it worked in the USA why could it not work there?

I see your point also, i'm 18 an i'd be mighty pissed off if I was restricted in any way because of certain individuals, but as long as the police do their job in finding the offenders then all would be well.

We live in a sick world where people get their kicks from destroying others properties, we have to live with it and do drastic things to counteract it.

[Whirlybird]

Blip,
No problem. It's a very long time since I was a teenager :( , so I was just defending others' trodden on toes...and making a point.

Ian,
The point is actually about prejudice. Teenagers did this (although we don't even know that!) so all teenagers are bad. A dangerous deduction. Today it's teenagers, tomorrow old people, women, blacks, rural dwellers, Jews, people who fly taildraggers, anyone with dark hair... Do you see what I'm saying? DEFINITELY punish the offender(s); I'm for dropping him/her/them out at 3000 foot without a parachute. PC and kid gloves have NOTHING to do with this!!!! But let's punish the one(s) who did this, not others who appear superficially to be like them, but aren't.

[eyeinthesky]

The best thing that could have happened to them during their little waltz around the airfield would have been for a fuel tank to have ruptured and a convenient spark taught them a lesson they would never forget.