Student pilots

[Evil J]

Just wanted to do a quick straw poll among stident pilots and for that matter instructors.

How many of you are taught to (or teach) to announce that you are a student pilot when flying solo??

I only mention it because as an ATCO I find it very helpful and am sure that I deal with more student pilots than are declaring such. There is ofcourse no requirement too but I think most ATCO's if they know they are dealing with a student pilot will be little more "touchy feely"-this would mean for me, identifying the aircraft to enable me to make sure he/she isn;t getting lost, and to be of immediate assistance if they do. I won't assume such familiarity with local landmarks or the ability to re-route or re-gain track after a deviation say for example where a zone transit has required a course alteration.

[Evo]

I was taught to taught to say it - "G-ELZY is a PA-28, student solo from...". Usually got me excellent service, especially from Boscombe :ok:. However, it also caused Solent to refuse my request to transit their class-D (Bishops Waltham -> Romsey) on my QXC, so it doesn't always help :(

[Circuit Basher]

When I was learning in Canada (Shearwater, NS), there was a colour coding scheme used when booking out on the radio with ATC:

Red - Student Pilot
Yellow - PPL < 100hrs
Blue - PPL >= 100 hrs
Green - Instructor / CPL

This worked very well. Also, when I was completing my PPL @ Bournemouth, when booking out by phone, we sometimes used Code A / B / C / D (similar categories to above) - that seemed to die out.

I fully endorse Evil J's suggestion that it should be a standard part of the booking out routine. Certainly in Canada, it seemed like the ATCOs were a little bit more precise with their instructions, gave you chance to digest each message and gave you info in 'bite size chunks'.

[FlyingForFun]

Not a student or an instructor, but hope you don't mind me replying.

I wasn't taught to say that I was a student, although I was made aware the option was available if I chose to use it. I think it's better not to. After all, some time fairly soon, these students aren't going to be students any more. Nothing magically changes when you pass your skills test - you don't suddently become confident at R/T or suddenly become able to hold your height to 20' and your heading to 2 degree when asked - those things come gradually over time. So I think it's important for students to be treated exactly the same way by ATC when they are students as they will when they are no longer students.

(How many of us were just a little shocked when we first ripped the L-plates off our cars, only to find that suddently every other driver starts hooting at us because we're going a little slower than them, or being a little more cautious at junctions? I think the green P-plates that new drivers have now are great, since they avoid that - but there's no standard R/T to say that you're a "recently qualified pilot".)

FFF
----------------

[knobbygb]

Same answer as FFF really. Never announced myself as a student.

I always assumed ATC people could prettey much tell your level of experience by how confident your radio work was. I didn't want 'special treatment' as I believe the best way to learn is 'in at the deep end'. I was confident during my student solos - if I didn't think I could do it, I wouldn't have attempted to.

Reading back over the above, it sounds a bit like I'm 'full of myself' - perhaps a bit over confident. I don't think so - I assure you that I wouldn't have hesitated to declare my inexperience if I'd got in any kind of trouble and really needed help.

I once had an approach controller start giving me instructions in a non-standard manner. Because I'd messed up the readback of a zone clearance into class D at an 'international airport', she read each item to me, one at a time, and insisted I read back each one before going on to the next. She spoke s l o w l y too. This made me feel like an idiot, and I made a pretty bad approach and landing because I was flustered. She must have thought 'Oh God, another student who isn't really ready' - in reality my instructor was in the right seat - giggling at my mistake. Form then on I was always a bit paranoid about getting the 'kid gloves' treatment.

[Maxflyer]

I completed my solo cross country qualifier last week and during transit of the Cottesmote DMATZ I got a little flustered on one of my calls. I now feel that if I had made it clear I was a student I may have received a little more latitude. My fault and nothing less than profeesionalism shown by the controller. Equally a good learning experience.

[gasax]

Back in the dim and distant days of '84 & '85 we were all told to announce ourselves that way (Tayside Aviation).

And it had its uses, particularly in terms of not be shunted to the back of the queue or vectored all over the place. Having said that I have almost never heard it on hte radio since.

[flower]

The term TYRO appears to have gone out of use, but I did find that useful to hear.
As an ATCO myself I certainly would not refuse zone transit /entry to a student pilot or I hope treat any differently in terms of service , however it is fair to say most students (and this applies to any student in any discipline) are unable to do as much at a time as an experienced pilot. Thus we may take more time over the RT with you simply because we are aware that you are more likely to have less thinking time.
This shouldn't be thought of as a slight but just us trying to take into consideration your lack of experience.

[Barney_Gumble]

Great minds and all that Fleur....

I was just thinking of the term Tyro. I used it during pilot training and it seemed to work ok, but then as I became more confident I phased it out and by the time I had bluffed my way through my skills test it became obsolete in my r/t.

Barney

[Evil J]

Some good points.

Firstly, personally I would be more likely to grant a zone transit to a student pilot (although I rarely refuse them) as I would consider the implications of refusing to the in-cockpit workload (I am an experienced PPL BTW). Whilst when I'm planning a zone transit I always have a route around the zone planned (and in the GPS!!) I would not expect this of a student PPL-similarly I would be less likely, like I said in the original post to bring the student through on a route that wasnt requested as I know fuill well that picking a trasck that you have been taken off (without a GPS/radial or good line feature) is bloody hard work!!! In such an instance I would hold the a/c outside the zone, explain the situation and then allow it through on its planned track when traffic allowed. Also being about as GA friendly as an ATCO's come I would endeavour (its all subject to workload) to monitor the progres on radar for as long as possible. If you didn't tell me you were a student PPL the chances are that (as I don't work at a LARS unit) at the zone boundary outbound you would get "squawk 7000 continue with en route frequency"!!


As far as tyro is concerned, as I understand it this means inexperienced, not just student (as I believe its a military term generally only used in emergency situations; "tyro pan" for example") so don't see why this couldn't be used by anyone newly qualified who didn't feel particularly confident.


FFF your point is very valid. I think the compromise would be to not announce yourself as a student unless you found yourself out of your depth when you could explain to the controller that you are a student pilot and could you have clarification. I am well aware from my flying that some ATCO's particularly with regard to zone transits give some pretty nefarious clearances that leave me wondering whether or not it constituted clearance to enter controlled airspace; its no wonder rthat student PPL non-ATCO's sometimes get confused.


Good discussion though. This is what pprune is about isn't it????

[flyingwysiwyg]

When I did my second solo cross country flight to land at Gloucester it was on a really lovely day with brilliant vis and bright sunshine. This was great, but did mean that the world and his wife seemed to be flying to Gloucester or routing over head.

When I finally managed to get a word in edgeways I elected to say that I was a student pilot and I have to say I was glad I did as the nice chap in the tower couldn't have been more helpful, even asking a couple of other calling aircraft to standby while he made sure I understood what I was supposed to be doing.

I think this pretty much halfed my workload and allowed me to make an uneventful landing......He even guided me around the taxi ways to the parking......I certainly wouldn't expect this treatment all the time, but when I was learning it boosted my confidence and really helped me enjoy the flying.

Thank you that man!

:ok:

FWyg

[topcat450]

When I was learning we had a company callsign and a Number...like speedbird 22 but not as flash, when we were solo student we added a "Sierra" to the end...ie...Speedbird 22 Sierra.

I think that was an arragement with the on-site ATC and don't think it gave me any special treatment when talking to others.

Small point of note, I've never flown using a G-XYZQ callsign, always a company one. It's easier when you hear the company name, your ears prick up, is it the same when using G-XY...?

[Fancy Navigator]

Hi Folks
As a Student Pilot, I also use a company name (Speedbird, for example) + 4 + the last two letters of the registration of the plane... in brief, something like "Speedbird 4 AB".... I do not know if a controller would recognise that I am a student pilot? Any controller could maybe tell me about this....
Cheers:) :cool:

[Hersham Boy]

I was a student until recently and always used the term 'navigation exercise' in the initial call into any non-home frequency. I intended this to show I was in training, whether I was solo or not.

As for TYRO, I wouldn't hesitate to use this now if I found myself in a spot of bother, serious or otherwise. You really want the chaps on the ground to know your not a several 000' hour pilot who's not that flustered, right?!

Fancy Navigator- as for using 'Speedbird', I like it! Might confuse you for a BA flight though, praps? :D

Hersh

[flower]

Fancy Navigator,
that wouldn't mean a thing to me i'm afraid, The only way I would know if you were a student would be for you to tell me that you are.

The business of using a name also as opposed to using the aircraft registration can lull myself into believing that the aircraft is in some way a professional flight not a training flight or an ordinary PPL out having fun.
My personal opinion is that if you are a PPL not a commercial flight you should stick to the Aircrafts registration as your callsign, in the event of an incident occuring if we have no registration it may be far more difficult to identify you or set up a search. Amongst my colleagues it is seen as rather pretentious to call yourself anything other than you aircrafts registration.
:p

[Barney_Gumble]

Hi Folks,

Just a word from a low hours PPL....I still use the term TYRO on occasions, if I am undertaking a procedure or transit that I have little experience of, because I still consider that I am inexperienced in many flying things.

For example the first time I went across London City zone I asked for a transit and then said I was a low hours PPL.

I know it is not universal, I am just extending the invitation in the notes under para 9.5 in CAP413 where it states, albeit linked to the emergency message section, that inexperienced pilots are invited to use the term TYRO when talking to mil units or D&D. In my mind it doesn't hurt to say so when undertaking a procedure for the first time.

It might go something like "........I am a low hours PPL and TYRO in this procedure......". I would even say I have received a better service insofar as the r/t might be given slower or more explicitly.

Barney x

[Northern Highflyer]

I was told to say I was a student but felt "confident" enough in my RT skills to not use it in a flight although I would have said so if I had been in any sort of trouble.

That said, when I did my solo QXC, the airports I was flying to were contacted in advance by my instructor to say I was coming, so they knew who I was and why I was there by my call sign without me having to say anything. I noticed they were far more easy going on me than when I did it with the instructor sat next to me.

Made the flight more enjoyable and boosted my confidence - thanks guys. :ok:

[Miss Bigglesworth]

Evil J, Since Evil Halo has taken over position as Commander of R/T on the Bigglesworth flying outings perhaps it's a good idea to declare student identity. It all gets a bit too confusing from 'the other side'. Hehe! (Sorry Halo!)

[Evil J]

If I was you M'am I'd be more concerned about Commander R/t's sexuality!!!

So when you comin to visit???

[Miss Bigglesworth]

Well, it is always up for debate Evil J but I'm not sure what it does for my own reputation!

For the record, my two pennies worth on a very good post. As you know my r/t used to be the worst of the worst (I'm better now that I know that those thoroughly decent chaps and chapesses across the radio waves are just that, thoroughly decent. crawl.) I always found that it was helpful to me to declare that I was a student if I was having a bit of a bad day. Somehow it eased a little bit of the pressure knowing that atc were aware. If I was having a particularly good and confident day I didn't bother.

We're hoping to come and visit sometime within the next 3 weeks, whilst my 30-day rule is still valid. And that'll be it for a while, no more money. Perhaps you can take Commander Halo up sometime soon?

[SKYYACHT]

Evil J,

I am glad there are controllers such as yourself out there who help us all in GA. I note from another thread, that Training Flights are now classified in the MATC as category Z - Basically, no priority, bottom of the heap, rather than just as a normal flight with normal priorities. So, will I now expect ATCOs to request me to classify my flight, on initial call, or will the "two on board, VFR to the East..." type of call still suffice. I suppose that it all depends on the commercial demands of the system.

How did it go up at Nottingham on Sunday?

I suggest Beer and Curry soon by the way. Perhaps get in some aviating too?

Cheers,

Blue Skies and Tailwinds......

[camaro]

Same as Barney and Flower...

When I learnt to fly I was taught to use "Tyro" and continued to do so for a little while after getting my licence. As has be mentioned already, it's a term that is not heard very often these days.