Jodels

[Maarten]

Is there a definite guide to all the Jodel types on the net somewhere?
I have started looking around for a (preferably PFA) aircraft which can be operated from a farmstrip (460m) and have seen various Jodels in the PFA mag. The only problem is the type numbers don't mean anything to me.
Are there any 4 seaters that can do this yet still be a permit aircraft? Advice much appreciated.

Maarten

[BlueRobin]

Hi Maarten

I've just bought a share in a Jodel DR221 (well, it's almost a Robin!).

A very good place to start is www.jodel.com which features stacks of history on the Jodel/Robin evolution.

Also, there's a [jodel] group on Yahoo (http://groups.yahoo.com)

In the case of the DR221 for example, it is a good choice IMO as it has a good power/weight ratio & good lift using that wooden airframe and cranked wing. This utilised typically on smaller engines, which are more fuel efficient. They may not have the STOL performance of say a ragwing Piper, but do benefit from a higher cruise speed.



BlueRobin

[Mark 1]

There are a few 4 seaters and 2+2s on permit, though they don't appear for sale very often.

The DR1051 with the 105hp Potez may fit the bill, but be careful about gross weight with 460m, its close to the limit.

The D140 mousquetaire is the best load lifter with 180hp lycoming and approved as a 5 seater. It will lift its own empty weight as payload, but it commands a high price.

You can get plans for the 1050, D140 or DR250, but you need a lot of time and patience, though you would be eligible for a permit to fly.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There is an active UK Jodel owners club, contact details are on the PFA website, it would be worth contacting them.

G

[Maarten]

Thanks everyone for the views so far! During my lunchbreak I read up on the Jodel.com website BlueRobin mentioned and noticed a potential snag. On one of the type write-ups the author mentions his height of 6ft4 as being a problem. I am the same height so I think I might need to look at the Robin DR400 but unfortunately it will not be a PFA plane then.

[formationfoto]

Maarten
Good advice from the others so far so not a lot to add other than height probably would be an issue. I suspect that you might be able to get round this with some design 'improvements' if you are keen on modifying original designs. My first taildragger was a 2 seat (the D11 series) Jodel and arounf three years ago I was able to buy into one again. Great of short strips. Splendid load carrier, benign, just a good and cheap machine. If you can deal with the height issue go for it.

[poetpilot]

I had a D112 (2 seat 65hp) for many years, and a DR1050 Ambassadeur (2+2, 100hp O-200) for many years after that (well a share in each actually).

At the time of owning, I dont think DR1050s (2+2s) were allowed on permit. I think it may have changed, but I wonder if a restriction on seats (i.2. 2 max) might have been placed on 'em?

Even on CofA, a very economic and rewarding aeroplane to fly. That nose down attitude in the cruise was excellent and the performance on 100hp astonishing.

Wish I'd kept me share...

[SlipSlider]

Maarten, I know they are quite different from a Jodel if thats the configuration you have in mind, but for tall pilots an Aeronca Champ is comfortable to fly in, in either seat, is an excellent short field performer and can be operated on a PFA Permit. There are very few 4-seaters on a permit.

My flying partner is about 6'2" and when we were looking for a tailwheel it became apparent that Jodels, Cubs, Condors were simply not feasible. The Luscombe is OK once in, but a bit of a squeeze through the door. A Champ fitted the bill perfectly (and was top of my list in any case).

Quote from an American magazine Pilot Report on the Champ:
"......this is definitely the airplane for a big person. "

And no, our Champ is not for sale :D !!
Good luck in your search
Slip

[Maarten]

As the 4-seat Jodels are in short supply, if I would find and buy a 4 seat Jodel in France, could I then import it and turn it into a PFA aircraft or are you then forced into the CofA route?
Also, how about keeping it on the French register? I have a friend who keeps his Piper on the German register and is utterly content about it all.

[TheKentishFledgling]

Marteen - I see you're from Canterbury...snap :cool:

Do you mind if I ask which strip you're going to be operating from? There's none locally that a Robin couldn't operate into, and all the local strips have Jodels, with Robins at some.

It may be worth popping into the strips and having a chat with the "locals" - I've been to them all quite a lot, and they're mostly a decent bunch :ok: ;)

tKF

[Maarten]

TKF,
I have flown 172's out of Clipgate various times and you are correct is saying that the locals are a very decent bunch. It is however more a matter of finding the a/c that fits the requirements rather than strip knowledge.
Clipgate is rather fun after Manston isn't it?

[TheKentishFledgling]

Marteen - yes, you're right, it's much more fun than Manston :ok:

I'd much rather spend a weekend dossing around at Cligpate than at Manston ;)

If you're around Clipgate this summer, the chances are you'll see me around - I'm often there when the weather's good!

tKF

[LowNSlow]

A quick aside, parts for the Potez engine may be a tad hard to find especially North of La Manche

[gasax]

4 seat Jodels on a permit - ah the holy grail.

There are several being built from scratch or wrecks, that are on permits. This is ONE 4 seater on a permit - rebuilt from a wrecked Germany machine. This was the first 4 seat permit Jodel - the great PFA 'break through'.

There are I think 2 other 1050's on permits - but they are retricted to 2 seats........ (restored under the 'old' rules??).

As for importing any production machine with a C of A, in its home country (apart from homebuilts and they are a real problem directly with the PFA!!!), it cannot be put on a permit. The CAA stopped this process (which is what resulted in so many Jodels, Cubs etc coming into Britain in the first place) in the mid 90s.

So unless you build it yourself forget 4 seats on a permit - you cannot import.

If you really need 4 seats then its C of A, (or better still N reg) or I suppose possibly leave it on the F, G or whatever.

To say the rules are frustrating is something of an understatement!

[DamienB]

A mate let me have a bit of stick time in his Jodel couple of weeks ago, including handling an approach and landing (my first tailwheel landing - ooh hang on, my first landing full stop!) and I loved it - so smooth. Pretty much sealed the fate of my spare cash for the future (i.e. now earmarked for getting a licence). Have had a go in an Islander and a C172 before and they both flew like supertankers in comparison.

Are all Jodels such fun to fly, or is this very much dependent on how good the builder was at doing Airfix models as kid?

[BlueRobin]

Yes, fun to fly. Only flown factory-built.

Even the later straight-wing Robins are fun. Get yourself over to Sywell and have a go in the HR200.

Maarten - the PFA mantra is that if it's wrong, there's not much burueacracy in the way of you or someone fixing it. For example, moving rudder pedals is an option.

Suggest you attend somewhere like the Aerofair at North Weald, a Jodel fly-in, or better, the PFA rally. With latter, you can explore all types. Don't forget to hassle owners and sit in the various aircraft!