Hardest exam?

[Pilot16]

Hi.
Which PPL ground exam did you find hardest?

[Aussie Andy]

Air Law - because you basically have to learn it by rote: do it first, do it now! Buy the "Confuser" as only that way does salvation lie :ugh:

The others, if you have an interest in aviation, you will find easy by comparison as they are much more interesting.. but still you need to drill yourself with the Confuser!

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Andy :D

[Evo]

Air Law is very dull, which makes it hard to sit down and learn it, and there's a fair bit to learn for the one about how aeroplanes work (forgotten what it's called :) ). Neither are too bad, but they are probably the hardest.

The one that took me the most work was Nav, but only because I had to figure out the whizz wheel. That took me a while, but after that the exam was easy. Spent a fair bit of time on Met too, but I learned a bit more that was really necessary for that one. Tried to learn enough to be happy that I could understand what the assorted Metforms tell me - promptly went and got stuck under a TAFd PROB30 TS at Shoreham, so that plan didn't work :)

[High Wing Drifter]

Agreed, air law is the hardest. Performance involved learning information by rote but not as much. The technical exam is very interesting (they are all are really) so, in my book, not too hard.

I was suggested elsewhere in this forum, do the confuser tests at least twice before taking the exams. The confuser is so good it is virtually cheating.

BTW, I might be a bit dense but pages 60 and 227 in the Air Law/Met Thom book do not look right to me.

[knobbygb]

Air Law, not just because of the content, but because most people do it so early on in their training. With just a few hours under your belt, much of the detail bears little relevance to real life flying and so is difficult to remember.

Looking back on all the exams now, if I had to sit them all again, I'd say air law would be one of the easiest because you 'use' it every time you fly (the others to a lesser extent perhaps).

Mind you, still neither know nor care what year the Chicago convention was signed in :p

[megnrose]

High Wing Drifter

Unless you got a diff book to us, Page 60 is just a drawing showing qnh/qfe, and 227 are cloud photo's?

You got me worried, as they seem OK to me:confused:

[ETOPS773]

I found Navigation the hardest...map was faded too :mad:

[High Wing Drifter]

Megnrose,

First of all the page 60 bit. Moving into colder denser air would make your alti under-read and not over-read? Wouldn't the air pressue be higher in cold air than in warm air as pressue is a function of density? Therefore your tendancy would be to climb on the same QNH.

The cloud one (page 227) gives a way of calculating cloud bases. However, it does not take into account the dewpoint lapse rate of 5deg/1000' which would make the DALR 2.5deg/1000' and not 3deg/1000'. I noticed this from the confuser. Got the question right in the exam too.

[Airbedane]

I found AirLaw the hardest, but Nav was the one I failed - couldn't get to grips with the computer...!

A

[Mr Wolfie]

Air Law is not hard - only tedious. (Come on, why do you really need to know what year the Chicago Convention was signed).:hmm:

I personally found the Met exam the hardest - which surprised me because it was the one that superficially looked both the easiest and most interesting.

Mr W

[Evo]

Sad thing is that more than two years after taking Air Law I still know which years the Paris and Chicago conventions were signed in! All of the potentially useful stuff is long gone though... :confused: :)

[megnrose]

High Wing Drifter

Relief here:D
It would seem that my copy is different to yours. The comments re flying into High Pressure however are still there, and as you say A over T. but now on P62, however I cannot see any reference to the other thing. P227 is definately just 3 cloud photos. It is the very latest issue however, with reference to the NPPL therein.
To get back to the original thread, my husband failed the Met paper first time round, back in '89

[rustle]

High Wing Drifter

"Moving into colder denser air would make your alti under-read and not over-read?"

megnrose

"The comments re flying into High Pressure however are still there, and as you say A over T

Either one of you is trolling (registered yesterday, both and only posts this thread), or you need to re-read the MET book to see where you're going wrong. ;)

[megnrose]

rustle
I do not understand the term "Trolling", perhaps you could explain.
I am concerned over what I assume from your comments is a mishaprehension.
Is cold air, as I thought, denser or not. If so, I believe that as the pressure depends on density, the cold area would be a higher pressure than its surroundings. I have looked in my husbands old Birch & Bramson, which tells me that flying into a LOWER pressure area will result in a situation where one will be lower than the altimeter tells you. This I understand.
I had not looked into MY Thom book, only having had it for less than a week, untill the posting from HWD made me look.
The part I have trouble with now results from the statement in my book that it will be, if my understanding of pressure/ temp /density is correct, the other way round.
I almost wish I had not looked after reading the post originally :confused:
Please feel free to educate me if I have it wrong rustle.
I will take it up with my instructor next week anyway.

[Bear 555]

I think the hardest exam is the first one - whatever you look at.

And in the same vein, the easiest one is anyone after you buy the PPL Confuser!!! A wonderful publication....

Seriously though, Air Law is not the most exciting subject but remains a favourite for the first subject. After that it can only get better.....

Bear555

[rustle]

megnrose

Unreserved apologies if this is/was a genuine query :)

Assuming all other things equal - i.e. QNH and humidity - colder air (than ISA) will cause your altimeter to over-read and and warmer air (than ISA) will cause your altimeter to under-read.

Imagine you have a 2500' tape measure dangling from the aircraft.

Imagine also that you are at an indicated 2500' on the altimeter.

On a cold (colder than ISA) day, the tape measure will read less than 2500'

On a hot (warmer than ISA) day, the tape measure won't be long enough ;)

[FlyingForFun]

Megnrose,

You are half right. Cold air is denser. And density/pressure are related. But not the way you are relating them.

Pressure is simply a matter of the weight of the air above you. At surface level, your altimeter will always read correctly if you have the correct QNH set. As you go up, there is less air above you, so the pressure decreases. In "standard" air, it decreases at a "standard" rate.

In cold air, because the air is more dense, it's all squashed into a smaller space. So, as you go up, the weight of the air above you decreases faster than the standard rate - in other words, the pressure is lower than in standard air.

The phrase to remember is "when moving from high to low, watch out below" - that phrase works for both pressure and temperature.

FFF
---------------

PS - A troll is someone who posts messages which are purely intended to cause arguments.

[knobbygb]

This whole argument really sums up the PPL exams. There is a whole lot of stuff in there which is interesting, and would be good to know, but is not really essential.

Rather than remember 'high to low - watch out below', I tend to work on more practical stuff such as: 'set the proper QNH, plan your route (height) properly and you won't hit anything'. Point being, you don't REALLY need to understand the mechanics of it all at the PPL level, at least. Same is true of a lot of the other Meteorology stuff, although I admit it is interesting if you WANT to understand it. Buy's Ballot's law (tailwind = low pressure to your left) is another one that's interesting but completley useless for most PPL's in the UK.

Pass the exams, forget 50% of the content and you should find the stuff you need to remember sticks automatically because you'll use it regularly.

When I get in the situation where I'm lost, flying over mountains, inadvertantly in IMC with a radio failure, I'll quite happily admit to being wrong. :uhoh:

[Holloway]

Ive got two exams to go, Nav and flight planning and im struggling with them! I think its cause im not amazing at maths! Ive got ground school this week!

[FlyingForFun]

Knobby,

I believe there are places in the world where this is very relevant. In very cold conditions, when doing an instrument approach, it may be necessary to adjust your decision height or minimum descent height to take the temperature into account. Otherwise your indicated 200' can become considerably less.

It's been a little while since I learnt this, but if I remember correctly it's 4% for every 10 degrees below ISA - so if the outside temperature at sea-level is -35, you need to take 20% off your indicated altutude. That means you're at 160', not your indicated 200'. Which could make the difference between making an early impact with the ground or not. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I've remembered the forumula incorrectly.)

However, I will grant you that although some airlines who fly into cold airports include this in their standard operating procedures, it's not very relevant to the average British PPL ;)

FFF
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[megnrose]

rustle & FlyingForFun
Thank you both for an explanation, which I must say makes more sense to me than the book. (Don't even think..'Well she's only a woman' ;) )
I am a very very long way from getting a Licence, if indeed I do. I really just want to get an interest in the subject because my husband flies now and again, but even he had a problem, not with the flying into low pressure bit, but the density/pressure bit.

[High Wing Drifter]

FFF,

Thanks for the clarification. I am glad I raised the issue now :) When are you going to publish "Fun's Guide to Flying"?

Thanks again.

[rupetime]

Ive got 11hours towards my ppl - obviously thinking ahead towards air law so that it doesnt delay any possibility of the solo,
air law seems to have a lot of content but i wonder really how much of it i need to know for the exam - do i need to know every aip number regarding each regulation - i just wondered how much of this is required to pass the air law?


also are the exams set in a formal manner or are the conditions reasonably relaxed ?

rt

[Kingy]

Knobby,

In a popular vintage aircraft, when flown solo, it is impossible to change the altimeter in flight - It's in the front - you are in the back. So it's a case of adding or taking 30ft's as you go and the old rules of thumb are very relevant in order cross check yourself. It's surprising how easy it is, especially when the workload is high, to get it all the wrong way around.

What I'm trying to say is, what is irrelevant to you as a PPL may be very relevant for someone else.

Kingy

[knobbygb]

Fair enough, I was being very general. Just trying to point out to the students that flying isn't generally as complex as the PPL syllabus sometimes makes it look and not to worry too much about it.

rupetime - exams are sat 'formally' - no notes or outside help allowed, although I suspect it's up to individual clubs/examiners just how strict they are. For mine I was sent off to a room on my own and nobody bothered checking up on me at all - could have had a Thom book on the desk or called someone on my mobile if I'd been so inclined. For the nav exam you are obviously allowed a CPR-1 style computer. I asked if I could use an electronic calculator and the examiner didn't know! I didn't use it - no need.

Read the PPL confuser for sample questions to get the level of details you need to learn - it's an absolute 'must'.

By the way, I sat my exams at a flying club, not in a manor of any sort ;) (sorry, couldn't resist that - I won't mention the grammer or punctuation either.)

[Edit: rupetime, not fair! If people comment on somthing odd you typed, leave it for all to have a laugh, otherwise my post looks silly :O It's all done in a light-hearted manner, no offence intended, honest! - for those who didn't see, he wanted to know in what manor the exams were conducted.]

[buzzc152]

Just wait until you do ATPL exams !!

[KCDW]

I didn’t use the confuser for my PPL – somehow was totally oblivious to it’s existence. As I said with my IMC (where I did use the confuser), I think it’s as close to cheating as you can get – you are almost given the answers, so I am not sure of the real value, which is probably why my instructor didn’t recommend it.

Anyway to answer the original question. The one I failed first time was technical…. I’m just not made that way… I just look at an engine diagram and my eyes simply glaze over :)

"I just ride 'em, I don't fix 'em"...

[flyingwysiwyg]

AIR LAW :yuk:

And to add insult to injury I didn't complete all my exams in 12 months and had to re - sit it!!!!!!!!! :{

My tip: Keep a log of the dates you did the exam in the back of your log book

[Saab Dastard]

Air Law, without a doubt, then Met.

I found all the others easy because I had come across much of the information before or had an interest in the areas before.

The Confuser was very useful to understand the format of the exam, but I agree it can be "abused".

Regarding Nav, if anyone is interested, I am sure I can dig out a piece I wrote on why the "jiggle" method is employed using the wind-side on the CRP1 :8

Recommendation from someone who nearly found himself in flyingwysiwyg's position: "Do one exam a month" - wish I had, it would have made the last 3 weeks much less frantic! :rolleyes:

Actually, you now have 18 months to complete them all (does that include the FRTOL?) so you can comfortably make that one every 2 months!

Cheers

SD

[jonathang]

Met takes the biscuit .

When will I ever understand ;)

JG

[ratsarrse]

The Chicago Convention was in 1944. The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organisation) was established in 1947 and is based in Montreal. *Sigh*
Articles, annexes, JAA, CAA, ANO, AIP, AIS, AIC, AAAArrrggghh.

Can anyone guess what I'm doing at the moment?:D

[Ian_Wannabe]

Hollaway...... tell me about it, lacking the gift of finding maths easy really does screw your mind up when trying to figure out navigation questions!

Glad i'm not the only one.......