Oxford Air Training?

[Flap30]

Fellow PPRUNERS,

I need some advice, and I can sense that some of you may object to the same old questions coming up, but if you can't ask here then where can you?

Having failed my BA CEP I am looking into the best way forward in terms of training. I have pretty much decided on Oxford, but there are lots of negative issues raised here. Does anyone, perhaps with hindsight, have any opinions as to the standard of training at Oxford?
Cheers!

Flaps

[Chirpy Pilot]

every school has its good points and bad ones and Oxford is no exception. I finished there as a self sponsored student about eight months ago. I found it an excellent school especially on the flying instruction. Ground school was OK, but because Oxford had more student than it could handle, self sponsored students where give low priority over B.A. students resulting in delays over availability of aircraft. However, though this was frustrating, I still believe that Oxford on your CV is a plus with Airlines and I believe that this helped me get my first job with an airline. However, when you finish your course , do not stop keep current and I would recommend doing a flying instrauctors course and showing apotential employers your determination and eagerness to continually learn. And yes I know this is expensive, but it could make all the difference

[Willy Jazz the cans 2]

.......and Oxford's a really good night out as well! :)

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I'm on my way!

[Flap30]

Thats Sounds Better!
If anyone else is ex Oxford, how many people on each course? Any really useful tips before I start? Really would appreciate some info from pilots who have been through it!

Cheers

Flaps

[Needmorecash]

I found the instruction for the tech exams better than the nav exams.
Techs I got a partial but navs not even that.
Several BA cadets and self sponsored students were on the Pete Lines brush up nav weekend I did.
I also heard the rumour of BA taking precident over others with the flt training.

[EX FTE]

I am there just now and would agree with Chirpy; I think OATS on the CV does add a little something. And when it comes time to compete for jobs at the end of the coure I think that the airlines will ask "where did you train" and "show me your log book". That reinforces his point about keeping current, adding experience etc.

Good luck

[Hect1]

Why not check out other schools that perhaps do not have a huge number of students, offer JAA ATPL courses and train BA cadets as well.

Where you will be person! not a number.... check out www.aviation.wmich.edu (http://www.aviation.wmich.edu) I think you'll be surprised !!!!!!

[Loony_Pilot]

I agree with Chirpy Pilot, as ex-OATS myself, I got constantly bumped to allow sponsored cadets to train, it took 5-6 months to do my twins training and I was available every day to fly.

There was also a marked difference between the quality of Tech and Nav instruction (the Tech instruction being considerably better)

OATS is a good school and it does look good on your CV in some respects..but don't go there just cause OATS has the advantage of being able to use "Oxford" in its name.

Its a matter of personal preference in the end, go to one of the reputable schools that trains sponsored cadets as well.. cause if the airlines accept the level of training there I figure it must help slight;y in the future.

And when you finish try to get on the ATP scheme in Southampton, they're you're best bet at a job but make sure you're completely ready before you go there.

Wherever you go you'll get messed around a bit.. this is "probably" the most peverse industry in the world when it comes to how you get employed...

email me if you want any more details on going from zero to ATPL (or at least my own story..:-) )

[Loony_Pilot]

Just to add to my above post, I also recommend you going on the Pete Lines course, I did and passed Met and Nav with flying colours when I was at serious risk of failing 1 or both.
By the way I'm not on comission.
:-)

[pilotp01]

I notice that the general view is that OATS is a good school and it does look good on your CV.

However, at a recent OATS seminar they quoted that 75% of their full-time self-sponsored students had found an airline job within 3 months of graduating.

Would ex-OATS students agree with this or is the power of Oxford on the CV being slightly exaggerated?

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PPO

[Loony_Pilot]

Hi,

75% getting jobs in 3months??? Sounds like typical OATS hardsell to me.
They've been no help to me since I graduated and I know lots of people that havent got jobs, plenty seem to wait a year or more before getting an interview.

All the flying schools will tell you that you'll easily get a job afterwards but the truth is somewhat different, at least in my experience.

[Jet A1]

OATS would be a really good organisation if it was run who had a member of staff who actually knew anything about the industry -- When I was there it often felt that the place was run by clerks and got their gen from PPRUNE ---- The instructors though on the whole are a good bunch and offer good advice and high quality instruction !!!!! But they dont give the job advice etc -- Thats left to the clerks !!!

[Flap30]

Cheers Guys! Its really useful to get peoples opinions.
How many people on a course roughly? Also, I know that it is going to be a really hard year, but are there some good times as well!?

[Visual]

Flap 30...

There are exactly 18 per course!

And...wait for it (teasing the crowd) there is 1 good time the day you pass your IRT and get outta there.....

Chow Vis

[Going Around & Around]

Generally the stuff given matches with what I found at OATS. The 75% figure has been pretty much flogged to death in wannabees over recent months and is not accurate!!! No question!
However, there are definitely some airlines that will take you for interview on the nod from Oxford (some may even ask for your reports post finishing) which definitely helps if you don't have any contacts!
The vast majority of the people you deal with directly in your training are very helpful and, I believe, good at what they do, unfortunately, it's the faceless "wonder how they got the jobbers" that ruin the hard work done by the others.

As for good times, well, you are right, it is sodding hard work, but there are also ample opportunities to have a good time outside of the school - particularly in the states! Happy days drinking beer in the warm az sunshine (post flying - obviously)!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hmmm,

"However, at a recent OATS seminar they quoted that 75% of their full-time self-sponsored students had found an airline job within 3 months of graduating."


NO WAY. Utter tosh. I would be amazed if they even collated the figures to back this up.

Thats not to say that any other flying school has better figures mind. This consideration is totally erroneous when it comes to choosing a school.

If you get "the nod" from any long standing FTO then the airlines may well look at you. That ain´t unique to OATS.

That said they have just dropped their prices and a 734 sim would be very useful experience from your MCC.

Cheers

WWW

[Going Around & Around]

quite right www. never meant to imply that other FTOs don't have at least as good links (be suprised if they didn't) - but can only speak from personal experience.

[Hap]

The feeling seems to be that Oxford tend to favour the BA cadets over self sponsored students. Is this the case for other full time courses? (Such as Cabair...)

I've just got my medical certificate and I'm fast approaching decision time....

[moggie]

Give BAE Flight Training at Jerez a call. Equal numbers of self and airline sponsored trainees and cheaper than Oxford (BAE price INCLUDES food and acommodation).

The package includes MCC on an EFIS jet sim (Hawker 800) and just ask OATS where BA and Aer lingus are getting their MCC done? OATS it ain't!

[F/O Speaking]

CSE-Cash Swiftly Extracted

I left oxford about 2 years ago now as a self sponsored student. It took me 6 months to land my first job with an arline and that is good going. This rubbish about 75% in 3 months. I dont think so? Unless things have changed drastically since i was there. Also dont expect to get much help from them when u leave. (Once you`re out the door with an IR in your sticky mitts, you`re no longer signing any checks!)

As for BA Cadets getting priority; that certainly goes on, even though they obviously don`t admit it. Think about it this way. You are a one time customer, BA come back again and again. Which customer would u look after the best?

Having OATS on your C.V. though is a definate bonus. I am pretty certain that it makes a big difference in the recruitment department of the airline that I fly for.

As for the training at OATS. In general it is absolutely first class and worth the extra money.

On a final note and to finish my rambling. If I had to choose again, I would go back to OATS.

[Pilot Pete]

I also left OATS 2 years ago as a self improver. I personally don't think having it on your cv makes the slightest difference. If the airline will take a 250hr CPL holder (as it was then) then you must have done an approved course, and lets face it any of the approved schools train airline cadets so therefore none is valued more highly.

You will see in a number of my posts on the subject of jobs I think getting a job with 250hrs is just good luck (there are so many 250hr candidates applying), ask any ppruner who DIDN'T get a job or even an interview with 250hrs, me included. What the airlines want is hours, multi/jet/turbine/piston in that order, IFR then VFR then single piston at the bottom of the heap. 1000hrs TT with 100 multi the rest single will get an interview with a regional airline if they are looking. More multi but less total could well secure the same interview but 'higher' up the list.

Don't be fooled into thinking, like I did that OATS makes a difference, stand back and try to think about it like a Chief Pilot; I need someone to fly a 737 as F/O. What do I want? A 737 rated pilot of the right demographic age with as many 737 hours on the correct series of 73 as I can find, who fits the company culture with the desire to command, who will work for the package I have to offer. Right, I can't find that, now who? And so he goes down 'the ladder' until the cv's he's got match his requirements as closely as possible. Who matches the requirements least? The guy with the least experience of any sort. 250hrs from wherever. That's the reality, but don't dismay because some do want the 250hr candidates as they can be taught and moulded without the bad habits and the problems of fleet transferance etc etc. And there we come back full circle to too many applicants with 250hrs and not enough vacancies.............

I'll say it again: Don't consider your training as over until you land the first commercial job. If after your approved course you can't find employment, get the instructor rating, go para dropping, go tugging, do anything to keep the hours rolling..................

Good luck

PP

[tailscrape]

Dear all,

1) OATS: excellent school. Good instruction in the air and on the ground. You will have to work hard mind you to make a success of it, both during and after your course.

2) 12 on my course

3) I never once got bumped in favour of an airline cadet.Ever. Not in singles or twins.

4) IRT in 4 weeks.

5) Don't expect any help after you leave. There is none.

6) Do try the ATP scheme. Be prepared, but they do have a lot on at the minute. It could be a good time to apply. The training is good and the people are nice. And - shock horror- they treat you like a professional pilot and do it very well.

To choose a training school you have a lot of choices. They all have ups and downs. Oh, and whilst Oxford is a good night out, Kidlington sucks.

Good luck.

[Voodoo 3]

I left Oxford back in mid '98 when you treated like a person and a pilot unlike today being a number and an object. I only went to OATS because of the reputation of the school and the help given to you once you graduated to help you find a job. However once I left, OATS had all your money, given you a licence and no help was forthcoming in job help. Having spent soooooooooooooo much money there I couldn't help but feel that I had been short changed. Of course you can't sit back and let them do all the work in finding you a job or at the very least an interview but you do feel entitled to something. I don't partiularly care for OATS now and if they did go down the pan, would not shed a tear.

[kalik]

The OATS 75% within 3 months of graduating is actually fact . This information is , however , based on graduates from 1999 to 2000 . Whether this was a particularly bouyant period in terms of recruitment is not recorded .

This industry is cyclical by nature ; Be wary of statistics .

[Antigua]

Hello People,
Thank God I'm well,well past all the nausea you poor devils are going through with OATS etc..
Just to satisfy my curiosity , though , I was talking to a chap from my bank the other day , and he told me the bank, (HSBC), has in place a scheme for self financers going through Oxford. Anyone have any experience of this before I pass this info. on to the son of a friend ,who's involved in the BA cadet scheme application process at the moment , and may need a fallback if this goes the wrong way?
Thanks
Antigua
(ex - Hamble) Fortunately!!
Capt BA 747-400
(If I can do it anyone can)

[Badger1]

Antigua, when I attended the OATS seminar, a lady called Susan Price mentioned this arrangement they have with HSBC. Unfortunately I no longer have the details but it may be worth giving her a call.

[Brian Clough]

Antigua,

If he's hell bent on going to Oxford then I'm no help but whilst weighing up my options I spoke to a good but smaller school on the south coast. They have a deal set up with HSBC and their course is a lot cheaper than Oxford.