Lydd airport

[troddenmasses]

I flew down to Lydd on Friday, and was very impressed by everything that the airport had to offer. Nice long tarmac runway, fantastic bar and lots besides. When I came to fly out on Saturday, I was absolutely disgusted by the general attitude of the AFISO on duty. He was rude, arrogant, sarcastic and unhelpful in the extreme. He gave clearances to take off, and told people off for not following his exact commands. When somebody said that he had the aircraft on finals visual, his reply was "Oh goody". I am guessing that he is a tower controller at Gatwick or Heathrow during the week, and is trying to bring the systems from there to a small airfield, such as Lydd. Has anybody else had these problems? Thanks to him, I am very reluctant ever to go there again - even though I really want to, and don't mind paying for the wonderful (non air traffic)services that Lydd has to offer (rant mode off) :-)

TM.

[Fujiflyer]

That's a shame. I have used Lydd a few times in the past both to land as well as for "someone to talk to" when crossing the Channel (though I tend to use London Info' these days). I have always found them helpful.

I doubt though that its a fully licensed ATCO, particularly one from one of the big London airports would have behaved this way. Firstly they would know the difference between AFIS and ATC services (assuming the callsign was still "Info.") Secondly if such an ATCO was providing an A/G service at Lydd they would probably be doing so because they wanted to, rather than just for a living so would hopefully tend not to behave in the manner you describe - ie frustrated / irritable.

It will interesting to hear of other people's experiences on this matter,

FujiF

[Chilli Monster]

trodden

No self respecting ATCO would behave in this manner, not only that but as people who know the differences in the various types of service there is no way we would risk our livelihood in the 'day' job by getting it wrong.

The Lydd experience is well documented - it's someone who is a FISO only. If you feel strongly about it enough that you feel there is a problem I'm sure the regulators at ATS regulation, CAA House Gatwick (who license and oversee all ATC & FISO operations) would be interested in your complaints and comments.

[parris50]

I've flown into Lydd a number of times. Once was for my PPL QXC and I've always been treated well. I'm not sure who it was that gave you such a bad experience.

On one particularly bumpy day last year, I hadn't intended to land at Lydd but my son felt sick. I call asking if we could come in and explained why. Meanwhile, my son actually was sick in the plane. When I told the FISO, he arranged for a bucket, plastic gloves and disinfectant to be ready for when I landed so that I could clean the plane. They didn't offer to clean up for me for some reason...

Even when I messed up the non-standard join into the circuit, they were very patient.

[Thrifty van Rental]

I take students into Lydd from France from time to time. I have never really had a bad experience there. I know that one of the FISOs there is in reality a Biggin controller, but he is always extremely professional.

It is nice to see some money being spent on the airport at the moment. A new tower, an ILS and more apparantly in the pipeline. Makes you wonder where all the money is coming from?

[Hersham Boy]

I've flown in a few times. Only had one -ve experience and that was on one leg of my QXC... young chap on the radio/in tower and was a bit standoffish and officious but not unprofessional.

Maybe they get fed-up with people not being able to see them weh right over head?! :)

Hersh

[vancouv]

Thrifty - isn't all the money coming from the landing fees?? They've always seemed rather steep to me for what you get.

[Flyin'Dutch']

So far my only exposure to Mud-R-Us has been via the radiowaves en route to La Douce, so far without a hitch.

I think you have to be a bit careful with your statements. You will find that any professional ATCO knows exactly what they are supposed to say and actually have very little desire to try and 'control' traffic at A/G fields.

What most AFISOs and ATCOs really dont like is peeps just messing about and not knowing what reasonably can be expected of them.

No doubt your own skills are up to scratch, but listening out on London Info or any frequency with some GA traffic on it will demonstrate very clearly that this is not the case for all or even most of our aviating colleagues.

You are obviously free and well adviced to decline to comply with all illegal 'control' suggestions.

Cheers

FD

[Holloway]

This is quite funny, I was at Lydd on friday too doing my X Country Qualifier and he was great to me. I think it was because I know the guy on duty and I was in the tower with him listernin to him get frustraited with people but he seemed to be calm when transmitting. The thing is, when I was there, there was a couple of people who really didnt know what they were doing and it caused a bit of mayhem. Anyway, I thought Lydd is only A/G and is there purely as free service. They have no control, they just help people right??? Ill tell my mate about this post :)

[2Donkeys]

Holloway, having spent time in Lydd Tower, wrote:

Anyway, I thought Lydd is only A/G

I guess this post illustrates the point perfectly. Lydd's radios are normally manned by a qualified FISO - operating under the callsign Lydd Information. Very occasionally, they are manned by an "unqualified" operator and use the callsign Lydd Radio.

These two callsigns imply two fundamentally different levels of service, and should provoke two different kinds of behaviours on the part of pilots operating in and around the airfield.

Neither of these are the same as having a qualified Controller in the Tower.

Confusion on the part, not only of student pilots, but also of long-in-the-tooth types who should know better, lies at the heart of this problem - not just the empire-grabbing behaviour of some of the A/G operators.

[Another_CFI]

I first flew into Lydd in 1988 when undertaking my Qualifying Cross Country, I then flew into Lydd on a number of occasions as a PPL and over the past 11½ years I have regularly flown into Lydd with students. In all of that time I have never encountered the problem reported by troddenmasses.

Whether the service that has been provided has been Air Traffic ( yes, they used to have full ATC), Flight Information or Air/Ground I have always found that they have provided the appropriate service with its associated phraseology. Nowadays the service, which is provided, is generally Flight Information and it should be remembered that a FISO can issue instructions on the ground up to but not beyond the holding point for the runway in use. Therefore if the FISO was “controlling” aircraft by passing an instruction such as “GCD taxy to holding point Delta ….” then this is totally legitimate.

[Kirstey]

Lydd = sh*tehole!

SRG inspectors are painfully aware of the FISOs attitude there. However their boss is unwilling to wield the proverbial axe.

If it's any consolation they forked out for a new fully operational ILS that they won't ever be able to switch on!!

[Red Four]

Wouldn't be too sure about the ILS Kirstey, not if CAA consultation is anything to go by - http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/ats/default.asp?page=1587

[flower]

Trodden, its because I look after you to well at EGFF.

I can assure you that Trodden is an extremely competant pilot and his RT is spot on. I have never ever had any problems with him except when he lost his torch !!!

OK the cheque should be written out to ..........

:p

[niknak]

Kirsty is right.
Because of the number of aircraft movements, to bring the ILS into operational service at Lydd, they will have to reinstate the full ATC service, with ATCOs who are qualified with aerodrome and valid approach procedural control ratings, (a very rare commodity these days, especially within NATS).

The proposal by SRG is intended for airfields which have a very small number of movements per day, and where the instrument approach will only be flown by specific individual aircraft operators who have prior aproval by the CAA.

They (Lydd Airport) will not be able to rely on the part time atcos who may be able to provide FISO services at the moment, as it is extremely unlikely that any atco would be able to do full time and part time ATC work whilst complying with SCRATCOH (Regulation of ATCOs hours).

Additionally, Lydd would have to pay a fortune to attract any ATCOs of any quality to work full time there - something I can't see them being able to afford even if anyone was daft enough to apply.
I seem to remember they advertised in Flight about 2 years ago for a SATCO with all sorts of bull**** about how the place was to become the 2nd GAtwick etc., and that's all it was - bull****.:rolleyes:

[djk]

I flew to Lydd on Tuesday, I found it a little daunting as it was my first solo land away. The radio was very busy so I found it difficult to get my radio calls in and had a debate with the controller when he grumpily said "you were asked to report airfield in sight" to which I replied "ermmm I did". I think it could have been the same controller as troddenmasses spoke to. By the time I was on my way out they had changed controllers so things were a bit more relaxed.

When a wasp which had been sitting happily by the windshield decided to buzz around the cockpit when I slowed down on base I probably caused some amusement when I turned onto Final and then announced "going around, wasp in cockpit".

I've found out how useful maps actually are, dealt the wasp a fatal blow while on the climbout and came back round again to land.

The staff there after parking up were really helpful, the restaurant was quiet and relaxing and the food affordable and edible.

It may not be the most efficient airfield, but a friendly voice on the radio is welcoming to a novice like myself. I have no choice but to go to Lydd again as I have my QXC coming up in the next few weeks.

[Stampe]

Well I,ve been flying in and out of Lydd for 30 years from my home field nearby,its an excellent airfield which would be much missed if it wasn,t there.Air traffic I,ve had no problem with in recent years not the case 20 years ago when it was a very prickly full ATC service.The restaurant is excellent and the landing fees apportioned by max all up weight are very cheap for the lighter aircraft, I pay about £8.80 to land my Condor MAUW. 669Kgs.there thats only fractionally more than the nearby grass fields and look how much more your getting!!.I,m always glad to pay that fee its what keeps the airport going for me and future generations of pilots and is nothing in the grand scheme of running a light aircraft.Its one of the safest training fields in the U.k. I,m always happy to send students solo from there with its straightforward air traffic , clear approaches and climbouts.I hope to see it develop in the future ,better times are surely coming for Lydd.I,ve just looked in my logbook and see I co-piloted what must have been one of the last commercial Vickers Viscount flights from Lydd on 13th June 1986 with Captain Eric Sears(anyone know if he,s still around??) in British Air Ferries V.806 G-AOYP Lydd-Ostend-Lydd on subcharter to the short lived Janus Airways whose Dart Herald had gone tech. I believe.Still get a buzz thinking about that flight reminds me of my childhood and the heydays of Silver City Airways.What a historic airfield long may you survive!!.

[Kirstey]

There are a number of problems - 2 danger areas one on the llz/GS for runway 22 - and a pond full of Great Crested Newts in the protected area for a Instrument Approach.

The son of one of the SRG ATS Inspectors is a member of our flying school. The CAA hates LYDD more than us pilots do!

[Holloway]

People dont like lydd then??? :) I dunno what all the moanins about. I thought it was ok there. Do they put anyones life at risk?? You tell me? Im a new boy, sounds a bit

Moan moan moan moan moan lol

Im jokin, im not a new subject to moan about lol