MyTravel DC-10 at TFS

[TE RANGI]

I heard yesterday morninng (31 March) that a Kestrel DC-10 had been evacuated on the rwy at TFS. Later saw the aircraft sitting on the ramp with no apparent damage.

Any fellow Ppruners could shed any light on this?

[Letsparty24/7]

The a/c aborted takeoff in TFS due to an engine problem. Pax were not evacuated. A backup DC10 was launched within hours to bring back pax and take out engineers and spares. It positioned back later on after repairs were made.

[woderick]

Nearly correct.
Terminal engine surge on take off. NO EVACUATION. Rescue asap.
A/C remains at TFS pending continuing engineering investigation and testing prior to two engine ferry back to MAN probably on Friday but maybe Saturday.
Procedure for two engine ferry is detailed and takes a long time but cheaper than a downroute engine change:D

[viking737]

Excuse my ignorance, but where is TFS?

[Holer Moler]

If you fly a B737 it is debateable if you could make UK- TFS in one hit, but don't worry about it.

[JW411]

Dr White:

To the best of my recollection the DC10-10 could make it either way from the equal time point between Shannon and Gander on just one engine so two would not be a problem.

[Holer Moler]

Have you ever heard of wind! Wx at your diversion / destination or are you American? if not then it is my guess you are American. Then Say no more.

[JW411]

Dr White:

I think it is you dear boy that has trouble with wind. The equal time point means exactly that - it takes the same amount of time to return as it does to continue. To put it very simply, the equal distance point between Shannon and Gander would be somewhere around 30W. With a prevailing westerly wind, the equal time point could be somewhere around 35W for example.

Weather at destination and enroute alternates has always played a very large part in my preflight planning as, I imagine, it would to all professional pilots.

My previous comment was simply based on 8 years of experience on the DC10-10 and the DC10-30 (7 years in the left seat).

You seem to be rather xenophobic about Americans. Perhaps you would do well to remember that they have more aeroplanes than the rest of the world put together and some of them might just be able to teach you a thing or two. However, I hate to burst your bubble but I am a Brit through and through.

[Colonel Blink]

Is Tenerife South (I think) - does seem an impractical route from Barbados though - wouldn't it be beter to hit the Azores if Jet A1 was needed?

Well the bit about roue just checked it here (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=BGI-TFS-LGW&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=) and it seems to be a reasonable route (and TFS is just do-able in a later 737 series without too much payload)

[dicksynormous]

Dr White,
let me guess, oxford, raf or ba trained. full of sh1t and ignorant to the fact that the rest of the world can fly as well.

[Po Boy]

Viking737,

I hope this helps:)




Name: Tenerife Sur
IATA: TFS
ICAO: GCTS
Tenerife, Spain
Latitude: 28°2' 40" N
Longitude: 16°34' 20" W
Elevation: 209
Runway Length: 10499 Feet

[JJflyer]

That was quite a statement... I could not stop laughing:p
But he sound more like a product of a military school to me.
Dock White The 737 I used to fly had endurance of 9 hours with reserves. So I think TFS from LHR would have been in that bracket unless you got about 200 kts blowing on your nose.


Cheers

JJ

[hottowel]

TFS is doable in 737-700, AEU do TFS from LGW in G-STRC and RD.

[Flightmech]

Leisure used to do STN-TFS and NWI-TFS with a lightweight 737-400, only thing was that they had to reduce pax load from 172 to 155(?) out of NWI due to its runway length. Took the full 172 non-stop out of STN ok though.

[MerchantVenturer]

Please excuse a member of the public butting in on a pilots' forum but I am confused about the 737 and TFS.

In the 1980s I flew several times as a passenger in Britannia 737-200s non stop from BRS to TFS and return. From memory the capacity of these 737s was 130 pax and of course the BRS runway is not that long (6,600 feet?).

Aviaco DC 9s also flew this route at that time but I don't know if they made it non stop.

The Paramount MD 83s certainly did because I flew on them.

[interestedparty]

I only remember one occasion in the distant past when Luton to Tenerife was not non-stop in a Britannia 737-200; very strong headwinds demanded a refueling stop at Porto Santo.
I also remember Laker used to do LGW - ACE in the early 1970's using a 1-11.

[TightSlot]

I started flying (Cabin) 23 years ago on 737-200, since then also -300 & -800 ( plus A300 and now 757 and 76 various). I've never had to stop for fuel on a Canary leg, from any airfield in the UK. This doesn't means that it hasn't happened, but that it hasn't happened very often, on these types. I'm not an expert, or even close, but this would seem to mean something. I seem to recall occasionally operating GLA-TFS on the older 737-200's (RN & SY for those who recall) without stopping, although maybe my memory is going.

Maybe the flight was swan-like for pilots - On the surface no sweat, but working like crazy out of our sight to avoid the tech stop?

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Britannia, as a lead customer, operated some of the earliest 737-200s which were JT8D-7 powered. Two had cargo doors, which upped their basic weight and caused great disappointment if rostered for a Canary Islands flight! There followed the more capable -9 variant and finally the -15 which could easily transport a full load of 130 pax Scotland/Canaries or vice versa against any reasonable headwind. (With a strong NW average w/c you often had a headwind both ways.) Orion and Air Europe also operated the -15.
Monarch and I think some of Dan-Air's 737s had the even more powerful -17. These were just capable of flying a full load between Gatwick and Tel Aviv, flying time 5 hours. Additionally, Monarch had two 737s with a 2400 kg aux tank in the rear hold. These were capable of Manchester/Tel Aviv, with a full load, and a 'Road Runner' takeoff, in a ball-cracking flight time of 5 hours 36 minutes.
OK Dr White, so you're wrong about the 737. JW 411 has put you straight as regards the DC-10, a type on which he has considerably more experience than I have.

[dicksynormous]

the 800 does it with half tanks and the gear down with bad wind in the cockpit , usually the headwind will allow the completion of express and telegraph crosswords, even more time to spare if you didint have to talk to those pesky oceanic foriegn types, whatho

[JW411]

Dr White:

How is the chronic xenophobia this morning?

Not only don't you not know much about the capabilities of the 737 but you know bu**er all about DC10-10s either. I have just looked in one of my logbooks and have found, just as an example, three direct flights from LAX to LGW. They average 10 hours 30 minutes chock to chock and I seem to remember that the passenger load had to be around 250 or less for the flight to be possible.

LGW and LUX to BGI was usually possible but occasional refuel stops were necessary in Santa Maria. I don't recall eastbound stops being necessary.

Why should double engine failures be such a problem for a DC10-10? Double engine failures are not considered for ETOPS aircraft!

Good luck with the PPL exams.

[dick badcock]

Hear hear JW (hopefully not GW!)

Flew the -800 loads of times from GLA to TFS last summer (via T16, T5 and VHF routes). No problem at all with fuel and full pax. Flight time is only just over 4:15.

DB

[JW411]

I forgot to mention that the average block time that I have logged westbound to Barbados is 9 hours. Eastbound average is 7 hours 15 minutes.