ukft, long beach, CA

[airline wannabe]

I am thinking about going to ukft in september to do my CAA IMC rating. Has anyone got any opinions on this school or experiences? What is the $15 a night accomodation like? Are there any hidden costs when you get there?

[buzzc152]

Check you PM's for the juicy gossip, but in a nut shell..... avoid this school like the plague. I went there for 5 weeks in 2001 and havn't got anything good to say about them (except that Long Beach Airport is pretty damn good).

[Dude~]

Well, you get what you pay for at the end of the day! I did my PPL there nearly 5 years ago and soon discovered that there really were some things that should have been covered that simply werent. Didnt help that I was my instructors 1st pupil! Still, a good dose of UK flying quickly filled in the gaps. I'd never recommend it though. My advice for all training would be stick to the UK and pay as much as you can. Except crazy prices like cabair.

[carb]

I also trained at UKFT but for me it was an excellent course and I learned loads, completed on schedule and up to standard, and seemed to experience every hazard imaginable - it very much depends on your instructor, and your ability and attitude. Some of the other people there with me were having a fustrating time achieving PPLs, in terms of needing loads of extra hours and repeatedly re-taking exams and even the skill test, but frankly that's cos they couldn't learn to fly or navigate or whatever very fast and of course for some people this has to be someone else's fault. :rolleyes:

Hidden charges: nothing I can recall, just watch that if you log more flight hours than the minimum or have to retake the skill test or exam then the final bill will obviously reflect that. The $15 student accommodation is a bit sparten, the guesthouse motel is much better.

Finally a lot of people seem to be rubbed up the wrong way by the owner/examiner, but having since experienced several other outfits I can report that there are many far less agreeable FTOs, where you also get rubbish tuition and unexpectedly shocking invoices (and not all in the US!).

[Rowardennan]

Hello

Anyone been there recently?

Within the last few months or so. I'm planning on going there in Feb 2004. Just looking for some up to date news and views

[Papa Charlie]

Like buzzc152 I did my IMC there in 2001 - very disappointing. I had a selection of instructors (4 in all over 8 days) and each told me different ways of doing things. As a result I took longer than the recommended minimum hours and got charged accordingly. Ditto if you have to retake just part of the flying test you get charged a load more dosh. So if you go take at least 20% more money than what they advertise.

The agent based in the UK arrived during my stay and did very little to help with the problems that most students were suffering from - ie lack of quality instructors, money grabbing owner, etc. He was not that helpful at all.

I went in the May and suffered haze and smog most of the days as soon as the temperature rose and the LA road traffic got going. So beware when the adverts say 100% flying is possible. Some of the (VFR) PPLs were grounded for 3 days.

I had also paid to do a night rating at the same time. This had to be crammed in on the very last 2 evenings of my stay because none of my 4 instructors were ever available for night flying during the rest of the time.

IMHO the owner/CFI is only concerned with bringing the money in, not quality of instruction.

I stayed in the local motel which was OK and by the sounds of it better than the student accomodation. Long Beach as an airport was good to fly from (other than the smog/haze) and can teach you how to mix it with the big jets.

My advice? If you go to Long Beach choose a different school if you can. Alternatively try Florida (but beware the crocs when doing PFLs!)

[Beethoven]

Been there...loved it,but what others say is also true...it pays to be proactive and you do end up having to sort certain stuff out....but the quality of instruction I got was excellent....have had better here....and worse here..LGB is a brill airport too I agree
Beet

[samson.]

I've heard a lot of bad things about UKFT as well and would certainly avoid it myself.

Samson.

[vinil]

I trained with UKFT. I had an excellent time. They were very professional and the training was comprehensive.

They also issued the I20 form. I will be very careful of going to any school who is not immigration approved.

[Field In Sight]

I did my PPL at UKFT about 3 years ago and then the IMC rating about 2 years ago.

A hell of a lot depends upon the luck of the draw regarding your assigned instructor but that will apply wherever you train.

My instructor had just qualified so I was the "Guinea Pig".
I really enjoyed my time and got the PPL in 4 weeks. However I failed on Navigation and blame this on lack of good instruction.
As I am an instructor now I can speak from experience.

However I went back to do the IMC rating a year later and had the same instructor (who was now waiting to start his airline job) and he and the course was much better.

I was back at LGB 2 mths ago and because I had already got the IMC rating I managed to complete the rest of the FAA/IR in 15 hours.

So my advice is just do the IR in the first place as this gives you IMC rating privileges for free and a lot more experience for not a lot more money.

More importantly though, doing the FAA IR allows you to use any US flying school and not one of the few "JAA" (read more expensive) ones.

BTW UKFT at LGB seemed to be a former shadow of itself from the days that I was there. I think the "East Coast" operation now has more priority.

Good luck anyway,

FIS

[Rowardennan]

Thanks for the input everyone

I trained with UKFT. I had an excellent time. They were very professional and the training was comprehensive.


Ajay?

[aces low]

I trained in 1995 and thought Long Beach excellent but UKFT not to my satisfaction....but long time ago and much water under bridge...so no axe to grind.

I am now an FI in the UK and would recommend that you train in the UK because in the long run it is no cheaper going to the States to learn (unlike hour building). Reason for going to US is weather and experience. Weather at Long Beach can be foggy (due local sea fog) in the morning and hazzy (smog) every other time. So weather arguement runs a bit thin.

Doing PPL in a month means hard work, (exams to pass) and commitment. Similar commitment and continuity in the UK would cost something similar to PPL in USA, plus accomm, plus airfare plus retraining when you get back home etc. The real factor is confidence...it may take you ages to get confident with UK airspace and RT if you only have USA experience.

In case you think I am just trying to plead the case for expensive UK based FTOs, not so. But I do regular retraining of UK PPLs who have trained Stateside...RT and airspace really sets them back and generally they require an extra 5-10 hours to gain their confidence (...nothing wrong with their flying skills).

Some trainers in the US know that you will be given a club check ride before you use your licence in the UK, so it is not necessary for them to train you for any competence other than to pass the GFT. I certainly train my students to exceed the test standards...to be safe, confident and to use the licence to the full.

You pay your money and make your choice.

[strafer]

I can't agree Aces Low,

If I'd trained in 150s on my PPL instead of Warriors, the whole thing would have cost £4000. That includes absolutely everything, accom, travel, and the 4 hours UK training I had on my return. In fact the only thing I had to buy was a kneeboard, evrything else - books, whizz wheels, maps, fuel drainers etc came as part of the deal. If you can tell me a UK FTO who can give you a PPL, night rating and 50 hours for anything like that price (not forgetting to include travel costs for every time you go there) I'd be very surprised.

You're right, intensive courses aren't for everyone and some people may need more than 4 hours when they come back, but for me it was a real no-brainer, buddy. With the exchange rate as it is at the moment, it should cost even less.

[aces low]

Strafer, you are correct....generally. I doubt you could get similar for £4000 in UK at the moment...except Moray Flying Club at RAF Kinloss near Inverness. They will take £65 per hour off you for C152 dual, meaning you could get a PPL/Night in UK airspace for less than £4k...plus they train to a high standard (it is after all on an RAF base). Admittedly it does not have a lot of Class D airspace nearby...but you will get some of the best flying training in the UK...cheap. And it is open to civilians....and you get to mix with Nimrods, Hawks, Tornadoes in the visual circuit.

It is out there if you look around...just not everybody advertises in the flying magazines.

[strafer]

Fair play to them, it makes you wonder why others can't offer prices nearer to that.

Mind you, the commute from London to Inverness might add a few extra £s for me:)

[aces low]

I dont think the RAF pay VAT on their fuel...plus no landing fees or hangar fees...and inexpensive instructors. Also club is non-profit making so no need to make a commercial return. This all adds up to cheaper flying for RAF and service personnel and the civilians who can take advantage of it.

[sortedtoo]

I trained in 1995 and thought Long Beach excellent but UKFT not to my satisfaction....but long time ago and much water under bridge...so no axe to grind.

I am now an FI in the UK and would recommend that you train in the UK because in the long run it is no cheaper going to the States to learn (unlike hour building). Reason for going to US is weather and experience. Weather at Long Beach can be foggy (due local sea fog) in the morning and hazzy (smog) every other time. So weather arguement runs a bit thin.

Doing PPL in a month means hard work, (exams to pass) and commitment. Similar commitment and continuity in the UK would cost something similar to PPL in USA, plus accomm, plus airfare plus retraining when you get back home etc. The real factor is confidence...it may take you ages to get confident with UK airspace and RT if you only have USA experience.

In case you think I am just trying to plead the case for expensive UK based FTOs, not so. But I do regular retraining of UK PPLs who have trained Stateside...RT and airspace really sets them back and generally they require an extra 5-10 hours to gain their confidence (...nothing wrong with their flying skills).

Some trainers in the US know that you will be given a club check ride before you use your licence in the UK, so it is not necessary for them to train you for any competence other than to pass the GFT. I certainly train my students to exceed the test standards...to be safe, confident and to use the licence to the full.

You pay your money and make your choice.

I trained at UKFT in July 1996. In my view it's far more professional than the outfits I subsequently flew with in UK (In US you concentrate on pilot skills, safety etc, whereas in UK the focus seems more on the text book).

I checked out at LGB, and MAN with no probs after flying LGB, SNA etc.