View Full Version : moral of swiss pilots

13th Mar 2003, 12:27
Is there any truth in

" swiss pilots moral is at low point due to uncertainties within the company."

13th Mar 2003, 12:32
Sorry - misread post!

Thought post referred to poor moral bahaviour of Swiss staff - then realised it was their morale you were asking about!

All I know is that they (Swiss) are having a hard time through a variety of things, so from the human point of view I would defy anyone not to feel a little low.


13th Mar 2003, 13:46
Morale? Just a tad difficult to judge at the moment. Troops down on the line are operating in something of an information vacuum. There are quite understandibly a few very nervous nellies at the bottom of the ex-Crossair list waiting for their 3 month's notices. The drivers from the affected MD80, Emb145 and Saab2000 fleets are probably looking at an even easier crew plan for April, May and June, after the aircraft are pushed up against the fence 30 Mar.

Not alot coming out the pilots' association and even less from flt ops. Despite the 25 Feb announcement of 20 aircaft to be parked and 200 ex-Crossair drivers to be considered surplus, latest info would suggest no formal numbers announcement by company until after the end of the "consultation deadline" next Monday 17 Mar. In fact at the moment flt ops can't even say how many pilots there are on the books, and how many are surplus before any social plan implementation such as reduced contract, unpaid leave, salary sacrifice, early retirement etc. There is also no information relating to what retraining is being considered if you chop from the bottom. Surprisingly for a wouldbe "Major International Airline" no current and valid seniority list actually exists.

Present feeling is that company will still send out notices within the next 2 weeks pre-empting any court rule on the seniority issue due in May, and also ignoring any resulting legal action by the pilots' association.

Patience is a virtue.

13th Mar 2003, 16:03
That's right pecs, with this kind of thing going on I can safely say that my motivation level is below freezing point.

What kind of managment is this????

Maybe WE should try and get a new CEO instead of THEM getting rid of US?

13th Mar 2003, 19:23
there you go, best defence is offence!!! why only the CEO, get rid of all the useless ones including head of the personnel who is directly responsible for personnel disputes. Go for full swing fight, there is nothing to loose, the boat is sinking anyway. This is a high time to see the guys with hard ba--s to come out and stand for what is right. The management will hang till they can get the last penny out.

from A to Better
14th Mar 2003, 06:14
The problem is that the management took the decision about a year ago to make two different CLA's with ex-Sr and ex-CRX.

These (B-GAV and CLA-CCP) are bombs under the company since they are impossible to co-exist.

Because they are endangering the company you could call them weapons of mass-destruction.

The corporate situation can also be compared with the currrent international political situation. People are being quoted not caring about the law, people are not following court-rulings, mis-informing the public and employees, uni-laterally imposing measures, so-called social partners are being shafted as we speak, debt is growing and tension is rising.

How long do people have to wait? Should the union wait for the court's decision? At wich point should someone stand up and make a difference?

Like with Iraq; if we do nothing next year we will say "we should have done something", if we take action a lot of damage will be done.

Add to this the job-insecurity, the new crew-planning system introduction, a LOT of new SOP's, new crew-control departement, the uncertainty of fleet-specific reduction and you might have created a chaos wich will not be rewarded by the paying customer.

A sad story.

14th Mar 2003, 08:55
Have a look Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=804151#post804151)

14th Mar 2003, 15:46
The really sad thing about the Swiss situation is that the first wave of layoffs, hitting Swissair's very youngest and very oldest, have pretty much filled any employment gaps still existing in and around Switzerland. We (smallish corporate operator) have hired a few of those guys, and generally made good experiences with them...
However, as the second wave of layoffs will hit, they will find quite a saturated market. I'll say honestly that it nags on my conscience that we hired a couple "early retired" Swissair captains for a corporate job, although they really had enough money with age 52 to retire gracefully, and now the "poor" guys from ex-crossair have to fight for the crumbs...
Having spent quite a few years in and around the Swissair group in various companies, I can only say this: if you feel that your job at Swiss is menaced (and who doesn't?), then grab the first decent job coming along NOW, don't wait, EMERGENCY, OPEN SEAT BELTS, EVACUATE!!!:yuk:

Robert Vesco
15th Mar 2003, 10:32
Merci beaucoup PorcoRosso ! Although itīs only for Saab pilots, at least itīs something !

17th Mar 2003, 14:54
So neither side has the guts for bold action ? pretending to fade the problems on its own.

17th Mar 2003, 22:16
SWISS management have just announced this evening that 165 FTE (Full Time Equivalent) ex-Crossair pilots (OC1 pilot corps) on the bottom of the OC1 list will be sent their notices on Thursday 20/03/2003. This reduction comes out of a current total pilot figure of 1844 comprising 1010 ex-Crossair and 834 ex-Swissair pilots (OC2 pilot corps).

With the 6 months notice which will now be offerred to these OC1 dismissed pilots, the legal dispute over seniority with respect to ex-Crossair and ex-Swissair pilots has a chance of being resolved in May 2003 before any dismissals come into effect late September 2003.

A very sad day indeed!

18th Mar 2003, 07:18
lets say if 200 pilots has to go starting @ bottom of seniority, will that effect ex-crossair captains who has joined within last five years?
thanks in advance.

21st Mar 2003, 06:47
A am still waiting for an answer from insiders.

21st Mar 2003, 09:44
Of the 169 pilots who were sent their 6 month notices yesterday, and who are on the bottom of the ex-Crossair list, around 40 or so are commanders. These commanders comprise ex-freelance (eg. less than 40% contract) pilots, ex-Crossair pilots who returned to Crossair in 2001 and early 2002, ex-external contract pilots who transferred to the "normal" company contract in 2001, and direct entry commanders employed during 2001 and early 2002.

The cut-off point of the total 1010 pilots on the ex-Crossair ("OC1") seniority list is somewhere around the February - March 2001 Date of Entry.

Other reductions not included in this 169 figure comprise those already given notice or about to receive notice: about 25 -30 foreign pilots exiting 31/07/2003 and a few pilots 59 or older on 31/03/2003. Additionally there are 18 pilots who have been leased out to Lufthansa Cargo MD11 operations, as well around 20 pilots from the OC1 list will be required to transfer to the ex-Swissair list ("OC2") for the expanding A320 operations.

Subject to any change resulting from existing and future legal action, further reductions due to Gulf War 2 effect and continued unprofitability and unsustainable size, the ex-Crossair list will total about 800 and the ex-Swissair list about 850.

21st Mar 2003, 12:05
Thank you very much for your information. Iwas trying to figure out how many of the UK pilots are effected by this redundent.

22nd Mar 2003, 19:37
can anyone shed light how much would be retrenchment compansetion of sort or unemployment benefits?