View Full Version : Flying through broken cloud
Simple, possilbily stupid question.
Picture the scene - idyllic British summers day - 4/8ths cumulus cloud at 2000’ – cotton balls no more than 500’ high. Can you fly through the gaps on a normal PPL? My take is no – on the basis that you can’t go near cloud whatever, but just checking.
Is this another good reason to do the IMC?
Brooklands
12th Mar 2003, 13:16
For the conditions you give, I would say "Yes you can", because for VFR flight below 3000' you just need to be " ... clear of cloud, and in sight of the surface ..."
Its a different story once you go above 3000' though, as you have to mantain specific horizontal (1800m ??) and vertical (1000') distances from the clouds.
Gerund
12th Mar 2003, 13:24
SCT? Look, I don't want to be negative, but.................
Before you fly again, for the safety of others, please learn what the VFR are so that you know what you can, and can't do. It isn't that difficult.
FlyingForFun
12th Mar 2003, 15:02
Going to disagree with Brooklands.
For VFR flight below 3000', yes what you want to do is legal. Above 3000', you need to be a certain distance from clouds, as Brooklands says - but I think it's 1500m horizontally.
However, there's nothing to stop you switching to IFR above 3000'. Your license will still prevent you from actually flying in clouds, but you don't have to keep your distance from the clouds any more. However, you will have to fly quadrantal levels and follow all the other rules associated with IFR flight.
Note that legal and safe don't mean the same thing. Are the clouds building? If so, how long will you be in sight of the surface for? And even if you have the surface in sight, can you navigate? Are the holes big enough to get back down through? Clouds can build very quickly on a warm summers day. If you're flying close to clouds, can you be sure there are no aircraft in the clouds who are going to pop out right in front of you? I'm not saying don't do it, because there are times when it is safe and fun, but think about it first.
Gerund - please lighten up a bit. KCDW is trying to find out what the rules are, and posts like yours aren't helping educate him/her.
FFF
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28thJuly2001
12th Mar 2003, 15:57
Gerund,
Get off your high horse,
What do you think is the point of these forums? My guess if to ask questions and generate discussions, KCDW scores on both counts. If you have nothing sensible, positive or constructive to post then my advice is dont bother.
28th,,
Gerund
12th Mar 2003, 16:05
FlyingForFun, maybe I should, who knows. But KCDW has a PPL for heavens sake! If he was just starting out then his question would be reasonable, but this guy could be flying around in a Jet Provost. He really ought to know! Or be able to work it out!! There may be a case for making the PPL exams considerably harder.
Monocock
12th Mar 2003, 16:06
Yes Gerund I would agree with 28th July...
The only reason you think you are from "A DARK PLACE" is because it does tend to be dark when your head is up your own arse.
Extract it and you will be able to open your eyes to the world.
Big Red L, I think we've caught one of those Flyer forum trolls here.......
slow up on the revs skip, pass me the landing net and let's see if we can coax this one on deck......
:}
As I said it was a possibly stupid question. Relax Gerund, I was aware of the “clear of cloud and in sight of the surface” rule, the skies are safe on that matter! I think my confusion is that actually flying through the gaps in the cloud may well push that rule to the limits – and was looking for a view as to what is appropriate and what isn’t.
By the way - I'm a he :)
Chilli Monster
12th Mar 2003, 17:06
KCDW
Can I suggest you have a read here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83612) . Thread about 2 weeks ago in a similar vein
Tinstaafl
12th Mar 2003, 18:38
As long as you can maintain the required visibility, separation from cloud & in sight of the surface I can't see why not.
Oz rules are similar w.r.t. VFR cloud separation. There, when the cloud amount is 'broken' is when it is considered "impractical". Note: Not impossible, but impractical so even then there is leeway.
NB: 3 to 4 oktas cloud is defined as 'scattered'. 5 to 7 oktas is 'broken'.
bluskis
12th Mar 2003, 18:53
That's one of the problems of cloud terms instead of octas.
5 octas would give a fair opportunity to descend, 7 would not, but we have to make judgements based on scattered v broken.
Chilli
Wish I had spotted that thread before - would have saved me a flaming :)