Virgin Blue salary ????? [Archive]

Keg

11th Mar 2003, 13:35

Geez Barney, if those figures are correct then I'm swapping companies!! ;)

If that is true you can chuck out the sayings about VB being 'low cost' because those F/Os rates beat the crap about of the majority of QF 767 drivers and a whole heap of the 737 drivers.

I've gotta say that I'm sceptical. Besides, I've done the maths a few times and no matter how I figure it, I can't get $5K a month clear (quoted by a VB F/O on another thread) to equal $145K per annum.

UFLA

11th Mar 2003, 20:09

Have a look at this one-

I believe that this has increased by about 10% in a recent ?EBA or other such agreement.

I believe Capt.s are on about $130K and F/Os on their appropriate percentage as per Section 15.1 depending upon age/experience etc.

This is not gospel but may give you some idea.

http://www.osiris.gov.au:443/search97cgi/s97_cgi?action=View&VdkVgwKey=%2Fdata%2Findrel%2Fdata%2Fagreements%2F22%2FV0535% 2F0%2FIA000010%2Ehtm&DocOffset=4&DocsFound=5&QueryZip=virgin+blue&Collection=awards&Collection=agreements&ViewTemplate=indrel%2Eview&SearchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eosiris%2Egov%2Eau%3A443%2Fsearc h97cgi%2Fs97%5Fcgi%3Faction%3DSearch%26QueryZip%3Dvirgin%2Bb lue%26ResultMaxDocs%3D2000%26ResultTemplate%3Dindrel%252Ehts %26QueryText%3Dvirgin%2Bblue%26Collection%3Dawards%26Collect ion%3Dagreements%26ViewTemplate%3Dindrel%252Eview%26ResultSt art%3D1%26ResultCount%3D50&

hoss

11th Mar 2003, 22:47

I just checked out 15.1 (Annual Salary Rate).

I'm just curious, but do most FO's start as level1?

By the sounds of it the Flight Operations Manager will determine your start level. So with VB being a 'low cost'(keeping the air fair) operator it could make good sense to look at the low experience Pilots first. After all the determining factors are:total hours,hours on type,hours in two Pilot operations,qualifications and experience in high capacity operations.

What would be the breakdown in % of the start levels?
(ie. level1 70% level2 20% level3 10%)

After all the difference between level1 and level3 could save VB $11000 per Pilot/year.

Safe flying, hoss :)

I'm with stupid

11th Mar 2003, 23:22

Barney, maybe they will be on that figure by 2015:rolleyes:

Hoss, I believe that level 1 F/Os are anyone with no pure jet time, level 2; jet time but no 73, level 3; more than 500 hrs 73.
the difference between 1 and 3 ( I think ) is around 10k P/A.

Dehavillanddriver

12th Mar 2003, 00:35

I'm with Stupid - incorrect

Level 1 rarely if ever used

Level 2 if you have a ATPL

Level 3 1000 hrs on jets OR 500 hrs on 737....

Level 2 qualifies for level 3 upon reaching 500 hrs on type don't know if level 1 goes to level 3 with 500 hrs on type - I assume so.

Base pay for a Captain is $131600 if my maths are correct - plus extra for C & T, extra when the international ops start, extra if we agree to new work rules, PLUS a profit sharing bonus at the end of the financial year. Allowances go on top of that figure.

F/O's a percentage of the Captains salary dependent upon level.

liquid_gold

12th Mar 2003, 02:07

Dehav,

My agreement says $117,832 per annum. You got something special goin' on? :confused:

clear to land

12th Mar 2003, 03:37

At a guess I would say DeH has included the retention bonus. Level 1 F/O 55%, 2 @ 60 % and 3 at 65% of comd salary. Applicable % also applied to the 15K retention bonus. L3 F/O approx 76K base.:D

sprucegoose

12th Mar 2003, 03:38

Add your Professioal retention bonus.

Dehavillanddriver

12th Mar 2003, 07:45

I thought that it was $116600 plus the 15 grand. Not sure where the 117832 came from - I must have not read the agreement properly!!

You have to include the retention bonus because at the end of this agreement it will be rolled into the base salary and paid as part of the monthly wage.

edited for baaad typping!

Keg

12th Mar 2003, 11:31

So are these figures pre or post EBA? Someone mentioned to me the other day that Skippers were on about $155K for 700 hours per annum and that QF drivers were on a bit less than that for 660 hours. I was sceptical at the time about the VB figures quoted but now assume that they include all the 'other' stuff in the award. Any advice lads and ladettes? I'd really like to if that person has misled me and a whole bunch of others too.

liquid_gold

12th Mar 2003, 21:02

Keg,

As with a number of companies, we not only receive a salary but also allowances and a yearly bonus. These are the figures for a Captain in the new EBA.

Salary - $117,832 - No overtime whatsoever!!!
Each 30th June - $15,000 - Professional Retention Bonus
If/When International operations commence - $3,000 - one off payment.
If new work rules are approved - $7,500 one off payment, plus additional $7500 to salary.

Pay increases of - 4% 1 July 2003 and 6% 1 July 2004.

In addition - 2% cash bonus 1 July 2003 and 2004.

If you are really good on a calculator - this makes salary approx $156,473 at the end of the agreement period.

That should put a stop to any rumours.

Now QF guys tell us what we should be aiming for !

sprucegoose

12th Mar 2003, 23:56

Uhh...I think the $3000.00 international allowance is an increase to the base salary, not a not a one off payment.

liquid_gold

13th Mar 2003, 00:10

You're right. Upon closer inspection, it is an addition to salary. :)

Name of another poster deleted - absolutely verboten here

Keg

13th Mar 2003, 01:59

Thanks liquid, appreciate the feedback. Are those figures hour dependant? IE, if you fly over X hundred hours you get 'overtime'? Based on your figures the pay will be pretty close to equal within the next year or so. That should stop our management pushing for 'convergence'. Where our 737 guys clean up is the fact that the $150Kish figure is for 660 hours. When you fly a third again on tope of that and you are starting to see the reality of Captains pays on the 737.

I've always been in favour of the VB crews getting a significant pay rise. As I said, it takes a lot of the pressure off us! :D As for what you should be aiming for. How about gong for anothe 10% in your next two year EBA for 04-06!?! That'll mean that we can push the company on 'convergence' for a change! Wonder what excuse they'd dream up to justify saying 'no' in that case! :rolleyes: :D

sprucegoose

13th Mar 2003, 07:58

First name basis...how cozy. Didn't think that was allowed here.

loungelizard

13th Mar 2003, 08:40

Liquid_Gold and Sprucegoose

I think that info hit the nail on the head.

Numbers of 195k, 130k, 131,600k, 117,832k , 116,600k and 155k. MMMM, I was getting a wittle confused. But that's Aviation!!!

Ta muchly.

UFLA

13th Mar 2003, 09:27

Gentlepersons,

Does it really matter how much/little over $130K we are paid to do what we do? Many of us are more than happy on what we get. In today's dreadful aviation employment climate a job flying for Virgin Blue is what many of us dream about nightly.

Sprucegoose - I too am appalled at the blowing of your cover. I have found that your multiple contributions to this forum have always been helpful and never belittling or negative. If I am ever selected to fly for DJ I have made it my aim to find you and thank you personally for your assistance. Unfortunately that has been made too easy now. Please continue to enlighten us and I hope you suffer no ill results from this indiscretion. I guess it is a hazard with this type of forum and perhaps some good can come of it.

I'm with stupid

15th Mar 2003, 04:15

Well dehav, how do you explain ex NJS guys with 1000s hours jet starting on level2 ?, or has it changed recently ??

Keg, VB guys can fly 0-100 hours a month, with no change in pay, and don't forget, the 150ish is in 3 years time.
In a nutshell, not even close, unless you call 60 odd grand close, sorry, the pressure is still on ya.:eek:

Dehavillanddriver

15th Mar 2003, 07:51

I should have been more precise.

1000 hrs on jets over 50000 kg.

The 146 doesn't quite reach the mark

The 146 guys from NJS who are joining at the moment don't have the required time on either the 737 or other jets above 50 tonnes

Woomera

15th Mar 2003, 09:51

Thanks Rob,

We have had period of two days, whilst we Woomera are all working and this is what you get.:(

I have had a number of emails regarding the "outing" of certain individuals on this site and on other threads, complaints that others have been dobbed in to their company on the basis of "opinions" aired on this site.

We have been criticised on many occasion by "high profile" persons for the anonymity practised on this site.

One does not have to search too hard for their reasons. If they don't know who you are then they can't "control" you or what you say.

You can be assured absolutely, that if you use this site responsibly your anonymity WILL be protected by PPRuNe.

The results of the above serve to reinforce the absolute necessity for the anonymity that is provided.

I have always and will forever hold the view that this is absolutely neccesary and a non negotiable feature of PPRuNe, as every time someone has been identified of attempted to be so, there have been repercussions that have not necessarilly been positive and pressure applied, sometimes subtley, sometimes less so.

I suspect that the recent indiscretion was not malicious, but I will make some enquiries, and the "guilty party" should PM me.

If it cannot shown to be innocent then they should be prepared for the consequences.

Sperm Bank

16th Mar 2003, 05:50

Touche Woomera!

I think most appreciate your resolve on this issue of anonymity. If the company don't like our opinions that is bad luck, and until Saddam takes control, that is hopefully how it will stay.

In a DEMOCRACY we have the right of free speech without fear of persicution or retribution (unlike our friends in other parts of the world).

I do not envy your job. The Australian pprune would be far and away the hardest to moderate due to our very different opinions (and agenda's of some).

All I can say is please keep up the good work. Thank you!

loungelizard

16th Mar 2003, 07:57

A'las to Feedom of Speech Sperm Bank, whilst we still have it.

Woomera

16th Mar 2003, 11:11

lizard

Freedom of speech does NOT include the right to attempt to maliciously harm or injure others by the use of it.

I'm with stupid

17th Mar 2003, 08:43

Thanks for clarifying that Dehav.

betedete

17th Mar 2003, 22:04

IWS

Pressures not on really, everyone knows that VB will never get paid what QF pilots gets, that's just the way it is.

I think you will find that the 150 K mentioned includes everything.
117832 base pay.
15000 retention bonus
About 1000 per month tax free for meal allowances etc. ( 6 weeks annual leave)
To earn that tax free is like earning about 21k pre tax. That takes it up to about $153832

Captains are working very hard at the moment so their allowances would probably be greater than that stated.

In three years time (now only 2 and a quarter) their salary, all going well with international flying and work rule changes, will be around the 156K to 157K mark, without allowances.

You mentioned that it was still 60K short of what QF earn, did you include allowances(overtime) or is a captian on a 737 earning 210 K base plus overtime? Or did you include in that summation?

I only ask because you didn't include it in VB's :confused:

Gnadenburg

18th Mar 2003, 07:03

Do Virgin Blue pilots get hot crew meals? Soggy sandwiches don't count as suitable in my book.

I gather there are no business class leftovers that are offered to QF crew.

Having suitable "free'" sustenance at work stretches your allowances.

Paying for your own food at an airport expensive. Bringing food from home inconvenient for a professional surely?

An often underestimated job perk the airline meal. If Virgin pilots don't get regular hot meals it is safe to shave a bit off their salaries in comparison to QF.

Hugh Jarse

18th Mar 2003, 07:25

It all looks good on paper until you taste the hot meal Gnadenburg :yuk: ;)

As Graham Kennedy said in The Odd Angry Shot: "Fitters and Turners....You fit the food in the pot and turn it into sh!t" :yuk:

That would be a fair description of QF Domestic catering at the present time.:yuk:

The only thing you shave off by not having a hot meal is a few inches off your @rse:}

Kaptin M

18th Mar 2003, 13:31

Soggy sandwiches

It might come as :eek: to you to learn that Japan's flag carrier (JAL) provides ONLY cold meals to their crews operating domestically.
Fortunately there is always a choice of Japanese or Western.

The Japanese box includes delicacies such as cold deep-fried potato croquettes, fried crumbed prawns, and/or fish - and of course a LARGE serve of cold glutinous (sticky) rice.

As an alternative, you may prefer the Western lunch box, which ALWAYS includes sandwiches, and often cold French (or Freedom, if you wish to suppot Dubya) fries, a half hamburger, or a slice of (cold) omlette.

Fortunately, in Oz good fruit is relatively inexpensive, and uncut can last for days in the nav bag.

Enjoy the life in Taiwan, E.P. - 10 days back in Oz each month wouldn't be long enough to get the pollution out of one's lungs, or the spit off your shoes.
They're getting you for a bargain price at only USD10.7k p.m. to live in that 5h!thole of a place!

Bugsmasha

19th Mar 2003, 05:52

Gnad,
we do get hot meals for our dinners(QF catering actually), we get cerial yoghurt fruit etc.. for breakie and sandwiches/rolls for lunch.

GT-R

19th Mar 2003, 06:11

Kaptin M, I think you might have issues.

I'm with stupid

19th Mar 2003, 07:25

Betedete, that remark was in reply to Keg saying the pressure was off the QFDom guys, because the pays were not that far apart, but they are.
A 737 line driver is currently on average 200K + ( and they get DTA, $3 odd an hour ), thats including doing " average " O/T a month, meal allowances are generally not used in calculating income as unless you sit in your room and eat baked beans, most of the allowance ( around $100 a day ) will be spent. If you are new to the overnite thing, as alot of VB crew are, then you could spend more than that.
So yes, 50 or 60K is a fair gap in my book.

betedete

19th Mar 2003, 08:40

IWS, it's a fair gap in my book as well, but that's the way it is now and will always be until AA takeover alot more of QF's runs. (but that's another story)

My reply was only really directed at your assertion that VB get 150K per year in three years time, which is not really the case when you take into consideration all the allowances, as you did for QF pilots.

A VB pilot in three years time will be earning around 156K plus allowances, (which are not taxed).

Can you tell us all what a 737 captain at QF earns as a base salary before allowances, overtime and DTA? I've heard that they are on around 139K, not sure how accurate that is.

PS, the DTA that QF does get is actually around $4 per hour.

TurbTool

19th Mar 2003, 13:04

Why all the comparing salaries.

It is a bit like schoolboys comparing dicks at the urinal.

Are you happy to be paid what you are paid for the work you do?

It should be obvious that QF management would desperatley like to reduce the overtime component of the domestic pilot's salaries.

That would seem to me to present a problem for QF guys. But why would VB guys feel the need to justify what they earn. If you are happy with what you get then who gives a rats what someone else gets?