Will Qatar Airways make it

[HF-in-Doha]

Inspired by the thread asking whether Gulf Air will make it or not. I would like to know what people think about Qatar Airways and its future. Will it reach a point where there will be no qualified people to run the airline, fly the planes and serve the passengers? and does anyone believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you know with rumours of Al-Baker resigning and all? or will it all end?

Oh and a plea to all who reply (if any do ;)) , I don't want to know about how bad it is and don't want to read insults towards anyone can read these just by doing a quick search and the insults make people seem really childish.

[swashnob]

You might get a few replies if your grammar was better?

[HF-in-Doha]

Swashnob,

Never realised that grammar was a requirement for getting replies. I know if the post is no legible then of course no one will reply but I am sure people can understand the gist of what I wrote.

Back to the real issue. I am interested in knowing people's opinions particularly from those on the inside Goldstone, Dubash etc..

[killick]

QR will make it. The airline has very significant state backing, good routes, a new fleet and decent crews. Whatever anyone thinks about the boss, he lives and breathes his job and has dragged the airline up by its bootstraps (cue ritual tirade of abuse and accusations of stoolpigeon behaviour). He will move on to larger projects, and as QR gets bigger its management will become less, er, personalised. Is this a good thing? Hard to say at this stage......at least they are paying heed to their customers needs, unlike certain other carriers that spring to mind.

[Qatari515]

They will make it when they start cleaning up all the internal affairs......

QR has a good shedule, an outstanding onboard service, a good commercial department, its beginning to establish a good name and reputation towards the customers etc....

I do believe we owe all of this to the vision of AAB ( when its good you have to say it as well)

Internally it is a big mess though so they will have to change that aspect very fast! At this stage the company is killing itself from the inside, its on auto destruct phase!

So they have to change that and they have to do it really fast.....NOW!

[HF-in-Doha]

Thanks for your replies Killick and Qatari515. A you both said QR has plenty of potential and at least on paper it is has all the elements of a succesful airline but in my opinion everything is being flushed down the drain with all the internal turmoil. Why do you think nothing is happening to improve the situation, is AAB in denial?

"Whatever anyone thinks about the boss, he lives and breathes his job and has dragged the airline up by its bootstraps"

I agree, AAB deserves a lot of credit for what he has done to the airline from the times of HAT.

Regards,
HF


P.S. Good luck to all of you at QR!

[NTM]

From reading the different posts on this forum.
I am getting the impression that Qatar Airways is getting a bit more bashing than the other carriers in the region.

Why is that ???:confused:

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

The quick answer is yes almost certainly they will make it. However they have a huge amount of lessons to learn and by the outside world they are seen as the poor mans EK, almost following their every move.

I agree with HF that incompentent mangement is hindering that progress with stupid decisions like buying more A300's and mismatching aircraft with routes and wondering why we don't get the yield (a monkey could work that out) and again I agrre that The Bouncer is in denial.

The service on board is too regimented and lacks real character that sets it apart from others. To me QR are just a very average carrier, nothing more.

God forbid that anything happen to one of our aircraft, but that is one situation that could endanger the airline and its future. If it happened in Europe the press who will virtually close it down. This paranoid control freak has made so many enemies who will be willing to speak out and give out a lot of previously unpublished (on pprune) info that, lets face it, we all know about. We know the press looks at this anyway.

He's got to face up to the fact that many of the senior people around him are unexperienced, incompentant and start listening to real people. Then he might start to make some progress but not until he does.

[HF-in-Doha]

ekatehtnohsabuD,

Thank you for your reply.

"God forbid that anything happen to one of our aircraft"

That was one of my main concerns especially with the safety standards falling especially with all the inexperienced crew being hired. As someone else mentioned people only go to QR as a last resort or for a temporary period untill something better comes up, while EK is becoming a lifetime dream for many pilots. QR should do more to attract and RETAIN cabin and deck crew as well as management.

"stupid decisions like buying more A300's "

Have more been bought after Foxtrot Charlie (other than freighters of course)?

BTW can you confirm the rumours that an ex-ALM figure will be joining the management team?

Regards,
HF

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

There are definately many flight safety issues that are currently being overlooked, ignored etc that AAB should take more seriously..he doesnt have the foresight to see that its very much in this companys interests if he wants to be a major player in the region, these are things that will be looked at in a helluva amount of detail if there is a major incident/accident. The huge amount of negative publicity will seriously affect revenues particularly from Europe.

I understand another 2 A300's will be joining the fleet in addition to the 2 x330's 2x 320's & 1x 319 (that came out of nowhere). Whether they are the freighters or not I'm not sure. Anyway the A300 is an old, inefficient aircraft and is not a long haul aircraft despite the routes that QR try to fly it on ie. KUL & CMN.

As far as the ex ALM man goes, i know nothing. Whoever they bring in won't make any difference unless the mentality of The Bouncer changes...he's wasting his time coming here...he'll be gone within months like so many others.

[HF-in-Doha]

I think you might have mixed things up, unless I got the wrong information aircraft due this year are:

A320:

A7-ADE, DF, DG and DH

A300F:

A7-AFB

A332:

A7-ACC (already here), CD and CH

ACJ

A7-CJA


[hr]

"1x 319 (that came out of nowhere)"

This A319 which is a CJ by the way was mentioned all the way back in 2000 when the first A319CJ was ordered as it was an option which was only firmed up last January.

"Anyway the A300 is an old, inefficient aircraft and is not a long haul aircraft despite the routes that QR try to fly it on ie. KUL & CMN"

I agree on the CMN comment, the aircraft makes TECH stops in Tunis a lot but I have to disagree with you on another point, while the A300 might be inefficient when it comes to fuel burn it is important for QR in that it does much better than the A330 on the short Middle Eastern and South Asia routes. Unless they get more traffic rights the A320 is no replacement on short routes, why do you think Lufthansa are keeping theres and infact getting more. Another point is that the A300s are very cheap to lease or purchase which renders the fuel burn or maintanence costs irrelevant.

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

HF, you may well be right about the exact numbers that are coming into the fleet, but put a A300 into service on a sector longer than 5- 5 & half hours with a full passenger load there starts to be payload restrictions. Check out the cargo rev uplift ex KUL especially its very poor (7 & half hours - 8hours), BKK not much better, CMN only "gets away with it" more often than not because its not full. MAN (if full) will suffer from same prob.

Check out fuel burn...for example MXP-DOH on A300 is more than MXP-DOH on A330! Same with B777! The problem is theres no real plan. We go back to the other threads of the past, expansion for expansion sake, get what ever aircraft we can. Nearly all airlines operated payload restricted sectors but we seem to operate far more than most. It may be cheaper to buy/lease but its not cheaper on a flight by flight basis and if its operating payload restricted sectors, well, whats the point?

The mismatch of aircraft to routes...
A300...most of europe, KUL, BKK, CMN
A320...TRV, KTM, MLE etc ..even worse in this case because the hold are full of baggage (when full with passengers)so very little if any cargo is uplifted.

Most major carriers make a vast proportion of their profit from cargo. We clearly are not carrying as much as we could. If we didnt have vast amounts of money behind us would we put more effort into getting it right in order to make a profit? I Think so!

Anyway HF...what is your conclusion from this little survey as it seems to me all of us are just covering old ground again...hapiness is V2 out of Doha!!!

[Qatari515]

Some really interesting topics have been touched here...


What can destruct QR at this stage:

1) An incident......one of those and the Qatari dream is over! I am glad to say that from the training departments out the people are trying to raise the level of some of the incompetents flying around here!!! They try but as long as QR does not bring up its package, offered to both Cockpit and cabin crews, they will continue to attract low skilled people only! Asian and European markets are picking up and allready we can see a lot of the good guys leaving! Its only a matter of time before all the good guys will be gone and then what....The basket cases stay off course with the known result! Unless they are willing to change their offer!

2) The press. They are just waiting for an information leak from within the company! They live on other peoples remains....we all know that! And right now the managment and AAB are pissing so many people off that this leak is just bound to occur once! And then the slightest mistake will get blown out of proportion with catastrophal results!

3) The personnel.....see all of the above!



Concerning fleet utilisation......it is true! An A300 is a MH High density airplane designed to fly routes between 30mins and 4 hours! Off course it can handle longer flights but just look at the penalties then! The same goes for the 320! And the 330 has never been designed to fly DOH/DXB as well!
They should straighten this up!

Regarding the service on board being just avreage...I have to strongly disagree on that! The service in business and first is just perfect! Eco is a bit less but then again, do not expect miracles to happen for free!

I know the QR managment is reading these forums, including AAB and I can only hope that they will make conclusions out of these reports....I hope I hope I hope!!!!

The fact that there has been a lot of commotion around QR lately should ring a bell in the tower!!! You dont see this comming from EK crew for example.....

QR is a good airline with loads of potential that deserves to live!!

[newswatcher]

"Qatar Airways has announced plans to operate an Airbus Corporate Jetliner (ACJ) configured for A319 long range operations. The airline’s Chief Executive Officer Akbar Al Baker said at the Aircraft Interiors Expo in Hamburg recently that the aircraft, Qatar’s second ACJ, was scheduled to enter service in mid-2003 and would be named ‘Oryx Long Range.’ Qatar’s first ACJ is in operation with the airline since mid-2001, carrying the name ‘Oryx Express.’ The A319 Long Range is the latest addition to the Airbus A320 family of aircraft, combining the performance capabilities of the ACJ with the qualities of a premium-class airliner. The ACJ, a longer-range version of the A319, can fly as far as 11,100 km.

Akbar Al Baker said: “Qatar Airways is proud to be known as an all-Airbus airline. Our relationship with Airbus has stood the test of time and we both have grown from strength to strength due to our close ooperation during the past year.” He recalled that Qatar Airways was the launch customer of the ACJ and again the airline will be one of the first to buy the Airbus Superjumbo A380, “an aircraft which will prove to be the pride of the owners and envy of their competitors.”

The CEO said by the end of the current year, Qatar Airways will have a fleet of 28 airplanes, all Airbus aircraft. While the Oryx Express is configured to accommodate 36 passengers, the Oryx Long Range will feature a two-class cabin layout for up to 110 passengers. Both aircraft will fly on a network that includes destinations in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, the Subcontinent and Asia. As an addition to the airliner passenger cabin, an Air Medical Unit can be fitted in about one hour in place of two seats and stowage.

[HF-in-Doha]

Thank you all for your feed back indeed very interesting points being raised.

I don't think the fleet is a problem area for QR, A300's being phased from starting from this year and should be out by 2006. A330's will be doing all the long haul work (besides the A340-500s for ultra-long routes). "And the 330 has never been designed to fly DOH/DXB as well" Many major airlines fly long haul aircraft on short routes e.g. CX, SQ and EK I agree it is not suitable but this also has its merits such as utilization as well as product familirazation.

The same thing with the expansion, those higher up in the food chain will know what the reason is (hint: Shareholders). It is strange that people on the inside don't know while many on the outside do.]

But I do agree the number one issue is personnel and safety. Not only does pay package need improving but also the style of management. It is very good that a CEO pays attention to detail and makes sure that nothing goes wrong but only upto a point. People don't like it when the CEO treats personnel as children and checks up on everything they do, it makes it seem that he doesn't trust his staff enough to leave them alone and let them do there work instead he interferes in everything :mad:

"I know the QR managment is reading these forums, including AAB and I can only hope that they will make conclusions out of these reports....I hope I hope I hope!!!!"

Here is hoping.

BTW one thing I thing I noticed with you Qatari515 which I haven't noticed with many others is that you keep optimistic while others are much more cynical. *Motivational Speaker mode: ON* This is what I always do, it can be tough but always think positive and positive things will happen *Motivational Speaker mode: OFF*

Sorry about the above :}

[Capt Krunch]

well... I'll tell you all one thing... these days i'm just happy to have a good job at a good airline like QR... some folks will disagree of course, but the way i look at it..

I could be with a fly-by-night cargo outfit that doesn't always want to pay you on time,, or doesn't always supply you with the best 2 star accomidations, and certainly does not supply any on-board catering.. or even worse.. no job at all .. working at the local gas station making less in a month less than what i make in perdiums a week..

well i have to say that i'm very happy at QR dispite all the whineing and crying.. .. i could do without the back stabbing.. but, pilots are their own worst enemies when it comes to that..

I love my Job
after all.. it could be ALOT worse.

[homesick rae]

Again it depends on AAB I feel.

He may eventually upset the wrong person!

A lot of very good people out there and it's always the minority that spoil it!

I wish them well!

[BahrainLad]

HF, you're not MTQatar back from the wilderness are you....?

[Qatari515]

Capt KruncH


You are right off course and it could be worse.....But this does not mean you have to stop being a critic! You do not have to accept anything just because of that, certainly not when the issue is safety.

Theres a difference between the professional crybabies amongst pilots and those who are criticizing in the hopes that by doing so they might change a thing in the company they work for.....This might be good for both employee and company!


Like HF said, I try to stay positive and I do enjoy working for QR but still I will be saying what I think or feel.....


PS HF......thanks mate!

[A300Man]

A new upper management board would make the world of difference, as would a less "hands on" approach from AAB.

Sadly, everyone at QR knows that at the end of the day, absolutely everything requires approval from AAB. That being the case, some of the fine managers within the company do not command the respect that they deserve, because their charges know that they are all ineffective and cannot make decisions without referral.

It's old hat as far as the QR threads are concerned, but nonetheless still true.

I wish the company well and continue to fly with them whenever I possibly can. Since I have so many friends who work at QR and some who have left in essence because the Company ruined their lives, it is upsetting to see that despite faint glimmers of hope that things can change, the Company seems to always get so far up the slope, but slides back down again just before reaching the top.

[homesick rae]

That's a very fair comment there A300 man.

I am the same. I know lots of people who had thier lives ruined and there are still many there who are doing their utmost to keep QR up there!

Sadly AAB does not realise this!

[Capt Krunch]

how exactly did an airline ruin someones life...that seems like a bit of and exageration, don't you think.... to me it seems like a pretty sound outfit in comparision to most of the shoty outfits i have been with in the past...

strange bit of politics and BS.. but nothing that can't be dealt with..

with the right approch that is..

I still LOVE this job...


"nothing but beach baby"

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

Capt Krunch...I like your style! But if you see the list of experienced, good people that have left this airline because, frankly, you cant change anything as many many others have tried and ultimately failed. If you can change you'd win a lot of admiration of your fellow colleagues, but I suspect you can't.
Having worked in the airline a fair time now, I know most of the threads here are more or less right but the problem is that in addition to The Dwarf, you also have idiots like xxxxxxxxx who really have no clue what he's doing (spend 2 mins in his company and you'll see what i mean, its actually embarrassing) and xxxxxxxxx who allegedly recruits and whose favourite answer to any question is "No". These two are the major root of many of the problems...recruitment & expansion...their responsibilities. The Dwarf listens to them and his many spies so A300Man was right saying that no management can make decisions without his authority and with a spy in almost every department, it doesnt make them inclined to do so.

My advise is take what you can while you can but don't make QR a serious career move. Unlike u i've been with better outfits and this heap of **** really show them selves up for what they are very quickly.

I'm sorry guy, but I can't let you snipe away at named officials from your position of anonymity. This is not a criticism of the content of your post but I am obliged to afford a level of protection to the persons you elected to make specific reference to. 4HP

[Qatari515]

Capt Krunch,

I do not know where you have been lately but you certinly have not been working for QR!!! Or you must have been sleeping...:D

They do ruin peoples lives because most people do come here with a strong and solid career move in theit heads! They bring their families over and they plan to stay here for a long time. If then you get fired because you wear the wrong kind of beard :yuk: (this just happend last week, a captain was ordered to shave by the dept chief pilot because he was wearing side beards and a goatee, he could not accept this so he left!!!!) you can start to think that these things ruin peoples lives!!!
It is sad but true.....at QR they do not give jack**** for your personal live.....

4HP.....I can understand why you deleted names but dont you thinkl its about time they are being made public? I mean, those guy are high up in the mnagement so they have become more or less public figures anyway. They are virtually unvulnerable as well, we arent! And what was being said here about them is absolutely true so why hiding it???

[Capt Krunch]

My ,, my,, Qatari515.. take it easy there dude..

yes i do work here and no I don't get that much sleep.. but thank you for your concern about my well being...:cool:

well as far as i have known.. most major carriers and Flag Carriers have a clean cut policy.. so asking a guy to clean it up a bit is far from a life ruining experience....(I too have abit of a hairy beek)... if the boss asks you to do something,, well theres not much you can say...maybe reason with him a bit.....or.. do it or leave would be the only other 2 options.. and if you pick the latter and you ruin your life in the process,, i can hardly see that as being the companys fault..

I choose to do what they want ,, when they want and how they want.. with a big smile and a bright.. "yes Sir"..after all i work for them,, they dont work for me.. and everyone knows that if you dont like it we are all free to leave,, and if we choose not to leave then we also have to be responsable for our own decisions and actions as a result....

and if one day like many other days.. i once again find myself on the bread line... well i can only blame myself for not makeing good decisions or not keeping my ear to the ground and seeing it comming... i know from experience it's not a nice feeling to have the carpet pulled out from under you... but if you want to have that warm fuzzy feeling.. they you should be at home with mama.. and not out playing with big boy toys...

life it to short for all this pissing around,, and in the end you'll wonder why you bothered in the first place..


you all know what mamma said about playing with fire.... one day your gonna get burned..
better off just to leave well enough alone..

[Goldstone]

Interesting thread.

The answer to the question is a qualified "Yes".
Providing:
1. AAB steps aside. His style of management is totally unsuited to the size of company that QR has now become.
2. A competent senior management team is recruited to replace the "yes men" such as MF. That will only happen when a new CEO is in place. Everyone in the industry now knows how impossible AAB is to work for and no talented managers would leave existing jobs to move to QR at present.

The ALM guy, Stephen Vella has now moved with his team to a new company, Prime Aviation whose biggest customer is QR. They handle all aircraft acquisitions and undertake all commercial planning. Amazing, but the airline does not have its own senior commercial planning team.

ekatehtnohsabuD ... yes, I'd heard that too.

[Qatari515]

Capt Krunch,

So just because they pay you you are ready to accept whatever? Hat on while you go to take a leak in the aircraft? No more OJ, expresso, meals etc just because......, jacket on untill 15 april no mather the temperatures outside,

Didnt your mama tell you that you do not have to jump just because others before did so?

Any way I have a new one for you. My FO told me last week a new rule was comming......very soon you will not be allowed anymore to take family on a trip you are operating on! Not as ID90 nor as full paying passenger!
Just tell me where the logic in that rule is?And why should you accept that one?

This guy was looking neat and clean and apparently he had been flying like that for over 10 years in his previous company! I saw him and there was nothing I could say regarding his looks! Besides that they hired him looking like that! And if they want to invent a clean look now at QR then they should impliment that rule for everybody, including some of he mullahs flying here!



Qatar airways managment......if assholes could fly, that place would be an airport!

[swede-basher]

Seems like a continuing case of de ja vu here. In essence until the current management ethics are revised there would appear to be every likelyhood of a continued high turnover of staff and management but there must come a point where quality of available candidates starts to deminish and standards become difficult to maintain.

Given the very high turnover of senior/general management and the increasing bulk of the company along with distractions into catering/airport operations etc. it can only be a matter of time until we witness some form of implosion.

I agree with the likes of 515 and it will be a great shame if the whims of an individual jepordise what could be a great company.

With regards to the statements by C K I feel it's only a matter of time until the rose tinted specs wear out or he starts to be subjected to the continual wearing down process that has caused many to jump ship or turned others into paranoid jibbering yes men.

Final point, I don't think Stehen Vella has taken "his team" with him, if you look at the ALM Website the other two original directors are still there with the former commercial director taking up the position of MD.

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

Qatari515, I think you'll find that rule about family on duty trips came out in a circular about 2 months ago although I don't recall it mentioning crew directly but I guess it refers to all of us.

Swede basher - you are right standards are already difficult to maintain and getting worse with people like MF & PB (I'll abbreviate them this time!) seemingly taking a lot of what can loosely be termed as decisions. The whole thing is centred around the dwarf and whether he will change his style. I've been in the industry a lot time and I really cannot believe some of the things I've seen here...not innovative firsts like a lot of what EK did in the early days...purely uninformed, poor decisions based mostly on whims (I have firm evidence of this on numerous occasions). You might be interested to know theres no corporate strategy...not my opinion but actual fact.

[A300Man]

In answer to your question Captain Krunch, i know several members of QR staff (crew and management) who have moved out to Qatar and joined the airline with the promise of lots of things.

In many cases, some individuals have sold up homes in home country to start their new lives in Qatar, and some have bought cars and homes and other home comforts that are all perfectly normal facets of normal life.

Some have taken out loans, etc, and have suddenly - for no apparent reason or with little justification - been terminated and told to leave the country within 48hours. How can anyone feasibly do that?

That is what i meant when I stated that I have friends who's lives have been ruined by a strange management policy.

However, I re-iterate my comments made above. The company is my preferred carrier and WILL go places if there is reasonable degree of authority and autonomy given to the managers.

Deja-vu, yes indeed. But all true, sadly.

Good luck to all the QR boys and girls who daily put in extreme effort.

[homesick rae]

Again spot on A300 man!

Yep, some of my friends are still there going through this regime.
One or two I know for a fact were given their marching orders for no reason or on one occasion hearsay. Mr SK was one minute speaking to the crew member concerned offering full support then the next day accused the crew member of misconduct!!!??

Capt K...the rules are ridiculous and unlike any other airline I have worked for. There is NO compassion and no thought for the staff!

D'you think if AAB was given 48 hours to leave his post he would? No way!
:mad:

[ekatehtnohsabuD]

A300 Man! I would love to share your optimism but I'm a realist who lives in the real world. Yes QR do have a chance of going places and doing something special but as of the 18 months I've been here they've missed the boat virtually everytime. Of course accuse me of being a cynic or pessimist or whatever but if it really was ok then I would say. But for me its not...I'll get out when its right for me.

I've worked for good and some not so good outfits...but QR are definately at the lower end of my scale, if not the bottom. Mostly for their sheer lack of respect for anybody who works for them. The locals appear to think they have the skills to take over all of the senior jobs but they clearly don't. I've been involved in the ME for a long while now (pre QR) and its not unique to QR but if only they (Mostly AAB) had the honesty and the conviction to put qualified people in the key jobs and not surround themselves with Yes men they may have a chance of heading in the right direction.

Your thread:
"However, I re-iterate my comments made above. The company is my preferred carrier and WILL go places if there is reasonable degree of authority and autonomy given to the managers"

The most important word here is "IF". So far on the majority of occasions "IF" has not turned into "WHEN". You know it. I know it.

[A300Man]

I must admit to having a high degree of optimism about QR, although my level of optimism used to be muc higher.

You are correct on the "yes men" theory - the Company is so full of them, and as I stated before, that means that management credibility is dimished somewhat as a consequence.

There are a couple of really good guys amongst the QR management team, and as far as I can recall, only one guy who has survived longer than most. This guy is, surprisingly, NOT a yes man, and will speak out as he feels necessary on issues.

Your comments about the Company's size now reaching such a level that AAB cannot possibly maintain his high level of "interference" in all issues, is perfectly true. Someone somewhere needs to tell the guy that he must approach differently and allow his appointed board to do their jobs without need for approval on every issue.

But who?

On the DOH-LHR sector a few days ago, there were some instances where the product and service were starting to display a few signs of being shoddy and mediocre. Not what I expect from QR. Inexperienced crew at the front end who didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Sad.

[Desert Budgie]

Hey Guys,

I'm just wandering, when I started browsing through these forums in June/July last year, I read some good but mostly negative comments about the practices at QR.

Now, 9 or 10 months since, would you say anything has changed. For the good, for the worse or have things relatively stayed the same?

Obviously I would have to experience the practices at QR first hand, but why do some feel so optimistic about the airline and some feel so negative? There must be some reason for this but at the end of the day, you all work under the same management. Why such conflicting views?

Cheers for any replies,

DB

[homesick rae]

Conflicting reviews maybe, but I am sure we all agree on one thing...QR would function better without AAB!

Yes! He has done a lot for the airline, but completely demoralises the staff, the cabin crew in particular.

As previously mentioned by A300 man, GC, Taba and others...well look back and read for yourself!

This is no reflection on the hardworking people at QR and Qatar as a country.:=

[Bang]

I am not suprised with the "down hill" Qatar airways is now moving towards,on service aspect.
I have been in the company for a little longer and seen how irritating the way decisions are being made and staff are being treated.
A simple fact: Look at the promotions at Qatar airways.right candidate does not get the right possition.inexperienced staff are in high ranks within the company,pushing the "well deserved" long serving staff, aside.Look at a flight today,with many new crew,and less hands on training,there is no consistancy.
Nobody can put the blame on staff who are not competant to deal with situations,BUT THE MANEGEMENT.because good,competant staff are either conered,terminated or have resigned,or forced to resigned,leaving the less qualified to do the job.

Look at the training dept:How many qualified trainers could be found there? a handfull?

At the end of the day,what matters to Qatar airways is not the welbeing and the welfare of its staff,but getting the job done through dictatorship.Because Qatar airways have to TAKE OFF !!

Let the staff go to DOGS!!!!!

[Slasher]

Bang, Ive noticed almost continual ads in Flight Inter of QA wanting pilots. If you dont mind may I ask you the following?

* Doha. Is it livable? Yeh Ive lived in Ha Noi for over 5 years but Im just fed up with the place!

* Is the Company itself livable? Are expats left alone to just get on with the job?

* Pay and conditions for A300 capt? In a nutshell.

* Does the Company offer time off outside Doha? In other words can an expat work his butt off for say 20 days and get 10 straight days off in say the UK (with travel arranged to and fro?)

If youd rather speak more freely than you can here, Im at [email protected]

Thanks in apreciation mate.

Slash.

[abuspilot]

I am sorry, but do not agree with Qatari 515!

Anyways, I do hope that everybody who works there "get the best of it " If, " there is anything worth in there"

The new management must change! except for Mr Siddiqi he is the only person that can make things happen but he realy needs to choose his people.

:cool:

Mentioned Palli J great guy too.:cool:

[Qatari515]

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????


What exactly is it that you could not agree upon???

[3000psi]

greetings Mr. abuspilot,

God damn , Palle's still there ?!?! I ' m sorry to hear that same S..... happen day after day.... since Dec, 93 ' when we started that damn outfit , for god sake get that snakbar the baker out !!! and you' ll see the light out of the tunnel...! May I ask ? is qatari515 a clone of the snakbar the baker or is he sniffing glue ?

Cheers & beers

[Qatari515]

3000PSI.....

Not a clone , not a glue sniffer.....

Just a pilot employed by QR!

The thing is that if we really want to change things here we have to stick to the truth.....Truth meaning negative as well as positive things need to be said!

You might not agree with it, fine by me but at least stay honest when you say something on this forum! A lot of the cowboy stories published here have been proven untrue so far and this causes people to believe that all stories about QR are B*****S***T!!!!!

[Goldstone]

As I've said before, what the airline needs is a committed management team of seasoned and loyal professionals BUT as long as AAB is at the helm the airline will never get the quality of people it requires. Its image as an employer for ex-pats is so poor that it will be next to impossible to recruit the right kind of people. And it requires ex-pats to do the job as can be seen at GF.

[3000psi]

Damn right , Goldstone.......

Expertise and knowledge.... But as you know that policy would doom AAB ....
Hey !!! back to the fashionshop that sounds right !

[Firm Touchdown]

* Doha. Is it a good place to live?

* Is the Company itself livable? Are expats left alone to just get on with the job?

* Are local crew given preferential treatment?

* Pay and conditions for A300/A320 capt? In a nutshell.

* Does the Company offer time off outside Doha? In other words can an expat work his butt off for say 20 days and get 10 straight days off in say the UK ?

*Is the Flightcrew training of a high standard?

Someone PLEEEASE answer these questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.:mad:

[nightbird]

i went thru the QR pilot(A 320 Capt) selection process last Oct.
The pre-interview presentation was quite nice(they stuck to the facts,no fancy hype)
As far as i can tell,of all the pilots from my airline who came for the interview,only 2(including self) were taken for simulator evaluation.
the breifing was good(and friendly)and the session fairly typical to those conducted in my airline.
And like that in my airline(and one of the reasons why i wanted to move on)their appeared to be no special emphasis on the
"No Tec" aspect. (it is how CRM was used to assign priorities and sequence tasks when handling unusual or out of SOP situations)
i was a bit dissappionted at not being called to join them,and my collegues in my present airline could not beleive that QR had passed me by!
The other chap was called and was flying with them by Feb.
Now i hear he has left QR!
And now they are looking at unrated pilots.
Something tells me they need to get their act togather in flt.ops too!
i am sure they still have some talented folks(Capt. Kevin who conducted the interview sure knew his stuff)
Hope they get a free hand in setting things right.
All the best QR!

[Qatari515]

Untill now QR still has a lot of talented guys! Local and not local!

But as far as i am concerned QR does not deserve a single one of them! As far as they are concerned we should be gratefull untill the very end that QR has granted us a job! What crap! All markets are braking up nowadays ( just take a look at the recruitment sites.....Ireland, Netherlands, France, Hong Kong, etc etc) so they should be gratefull towards us!

My opinion is that if QR wants to survive they should do a firm upgrade of the package and turn QR into a real carreer airline such as EK. Now, if you would manage to stay here 30 years, you go home with nothing!!!! No pension fund, no fee.....NULL!

Just be honest, with all big companies looking for rated pilots, which sane pilot would want to work here? Sure, you always find some individuals but to be honest, most QR pilots have other reasons for staying here then QR itself!

That is why so many will be leaving now or will not be comming back from their leaves!!!And they should do so.....


Nightbird.....friend of Pritvi?

[leftseatview]

Hi Qatari 515,
Hope your prayers for a happier QR are answered soon.
i spoke to Prithvi on the R/T in Feb and he sounded happy.
i am not in touch with him now,so i am wondering why did he leave all of a sudden?
Happy Landings

[Slasher]

Firm Touchdown I think the lack of feedback (or at least acknowledgment) of our respective posts indicates it might NOT be a Company to go for.

In my experience airlines who place pilot recruit-ads almost monthley in Flight Inter indicates they arent getting the drivers and staying away in droves. So there must be something very wrong there.

Looking through other Qatar-related threads I think Ill give that mob a miss. I thought at least "bang" might provide some answers to those esential questions I/we asked but I got zilch.

[Qatari515]

Slasher,

If you would have taken the effort to go through previous treads about QR then you would have found all the answers you need!

Just search for them, me alone I have answered all those questions allready 10 times and I have had it now...

[Slasher]

Thanks Q515! Your a veratable font of information! Your a great help champ, great help! :D

Jeez I never thought of actualy SEARCHING through past threads! Oh well, when they were dishing out common-sense I mustve wandered away from the queue somehow......

Re-addressing and re-hashing the particular simple questions from above (which I CANT find the flamin answers to in other threads)

* Doha. Is it a livable place for Westerners? Yes? No? Sorta?

* Is the Company itself livable? Are expats left alone to just get on with the job or hassled every which way? (Yes? No? Sorta?)

* Are local crew given preferential treatment in terms of routes, rosters, etc? (Yes? No? Sorta?)

* Pay and conditions for A300/A320 capt? In a nutshell.
$??? pm gross/education yes? no?/per diems yes? no?/ average take-home pm $??/ Duration of initial contract ??years

* What is the amount and duration for A300/A320 bonds? $??/??years

* Does the Company offer time off outside Doha? In other words can an expat work his butt off for say 22 days and get 8 straight days off in say the UK or SE Asia? (Yes? No? Sorta?)

Thats all. Christ its not like Im askin for a discription of the far side of the moon or something!

Thank you gentlemen.

[Qatari515]

* Doha. Is it a livable place for Westerners? Yes? No? Sorta?

All depends what you want. Are you a family man, the quiet type, you enyoy nature and laying by the pool, desert driving etc etc.....yes, it is very much livable!
Do you want to go out all the time, have fun, feel unrestricted, you like cosmopolitan cities etc etc....then do not come!

I love the way of life here , others for sure will start bashing now about Doha being the dullest place on earth....all a matter of opinion so check it out thoroughly yourself before you decide on something!

* Is the Company itself livable? Are expats left alone to just get on with the job or hassled every which way? (Yes? No? Sorta?)

Stay away from politics, dont bother about a managment job and even stay away from training if you can....then you will do allright! This is an expat company and as in every expat company you are rather vulnerable! No unions no nothins so.....

But if you follow the one golden rule they leave you alone....

* Are local crew given preferential treatment in terms of routes, rosters, etc? (Yes? No? Sorta?)

Routes and rosters .....NO! Seniority counts there for everybody! Pay.....as everywhere...yes. They get something more although nopbody knows exactly how much! Who cxares anyway, if you are happy with what they are offering you why should you be worried by a qataris pay? Its the same in GF anyway....

Promotion......some people feel that there is a certain advantage in being an arabic speaker regarding upgrades although again, I have never seen it myself!

* Pay and conditions for A300/A320 capt? In a nutshell.
$??? pm gross/education yes? no?/per diems yes? no?/ average take-home pm $??/ Duration of initial contract ??years

Everybody, regardless of the fleet, takes home the same thing. F/O basic salary 12000QR, Captain 16000QR. Together with all the duty payments etc etc you have around 21500QR as an FO and 27000QR as a captain!

They pay for education but , regarding the market situation in Doha, it is far from enough!Lets say they have to tripple it to make it worthwile. Anyway they pay up to 18 years old and thats it.....pretty lousy package there!

Living allowance, included above, is 4500QR. On an average bases the expats here are paying between 5000 and 11000QR/Month, again depending on what you are looking for off course but to make it reasonable they have to add 4000QR at least to the package there!

This package has not been upgraded for years now and since then the situation in the ' booming' Doha has changed a lot! Everytime they where planning an upgrade something happend that managment could use in thjeir advantage! Lets hope they do change something about that!

If you had not noticed it yet...they are very very very bad in personnell managment! They should read the basical books about managment again and then this company would be a dream to work for!

" Treat people as if they where what they ought to be and you help them to become what they are capable of being"
John Wolfgang von Goethe
In other words:Give to your employees and they will give it back to you!!!

Initial contract is open ended with three months probation

* What is the amount and duration for A300/A320 bonds? $??/??years

I think a bond is around 25000USD or three years....to be confirmed.

* Does the Company offer time off outside Doha? In other words can an expat work his butt off for say 22 days and get 8 straight days off in say the UK or SE Asia? (Yes? No? Sorta?)

Yes you can! You can bid for 4 days of in a row every month or 8 days off in a row every two months.....

Hope this helped you.....

[74world]

Salah malekum Qatari515,

Sounds like your're working for QR, could you please answer couple of questions???

1- how much is 21500QR worth in Euros or even US $ ????

2- how strong is the local currency????

3- Are you saving any money in Doha or is it all going into the local economy???

Thank you in advance for the reply

Cheers.....;)

[HF-in-Doha]

74world,

1- ~$5900.00
2- Currency is pegged to the US dollar so it is stable.

[Qatari515]

Alaykum Salaam....

Saving .....welll....euhhh.....lets put it this way, we are sponsoring a big part of the local economy and sometimes we do save some money.....

I hope....

[Slasher]

Thanks Q515. Much apreciated.

You can bid for 4 days of in a row every month or 8 days off in a row every two months.....

Can this be negotiated to say 6-7 days per month if one is prepared to work ones butt off with minimum rest for the working part that month?

[4HolerPoler]

I'm having a not-so quiet giggle here at Q515's question to Slash -

"Are you a family man, the quiet type, you enyoy nature and laying by the pool"

Now, a lot of you don't know Slasher from the Old Days and he is new to the ME forum but Slash is the man.

Family man - how many families are we talking about?

Quiet type - the only quiet time in Slash's day is that short time between falling asleep & the onset of the snoring.

Enjoy nature - sure he enjoys nature. As long as it's wearing a skirt.

Laying by the pool - yes, there and a whole lot of other places.

Slash you can run but you can't hide. Husbands & fathers lock up your women.

SLASH ALERT

Welcome to the sandpit Slash - come on in, the water's warm.

[abuspilot]

Capt. Krunch.....

It appears to me, that this is the only better job you ever had! despite the critics you should be realistic and support your fellow man! and look whos talking about back stubbing!
dare devil.

Qatari 515 You are alright man! I don't care what they said about you.

[Capt Krunch]

abuspilot:

I will never support anyone who i dont agree with.... i'm not the type just to follow the masses and never will... some folks like it here and some folks don't.... some will leave and some won't...

as far as i'm concerned this is a good place to work and they always pay on time... i'm not a politician (nor can i spell it properly) i'm just hear to fly the bus and have a great time while doing it...

I'm not interested in banging my head against the wall just because other people are... maybe they have just cause for doing so, from their point of view, theres no problem with that at all ,, but, I surely won't....

and I have to live and work here as well as everyone else and put up with all the same things as everyone else..... but i'm OK with it all... i'm just happy to be working,,, have a good job,,, a good time while on layovers and time off.....

as i mentioned before.... live is too short for all the grumbling over things you can not change.... I don't want to go to work un happy.... if thats the case than i just dont want to go... things could be alot worse... there is no perfect airline,,, there is no perfect place to work... it's all in the eye of the individual.... i perdonally dont look at the greener grasses,,, i just take care of mine myself...

I walk thru the door... make a left turn and find my seat at the pointy end.. with a smile... and i'm just thrilled to do it.... and for those who might think i'm new at the game.. well not so either... have been at it for more than a decade and a half and loved it all the way, good and bad,,,

my worst possible day on the flight deck,, is still better than the best possible day some one else could have ...

that my story and i'ma stick'in to it..:p

[Crazycanuk]

Well said Krunch...

Craze

[Slasher]

Sorry 4HP but its not me whos interested. A mate of mine is workin out wether to make out an aplication or not. Thought Id try here to get more info.

Besides Im still too busy "corupting" the commie chicks here! :E