View Full Version : Refueling with Pax Onboard
RatherBeFlying
8th Mar 2003, 01:46
I boarded an ERJ for YYZ-CLE and saw the fuel truck drive up, connect the grounds and plug in the hose. After disconnecting the fuel chap handed the meter reading over to the ramp manager.
So what's the rules on refuelling with pax onboard? Is it relaxed for Jet A?
Pontius' Pilot
8th Mar 2003, 02:44
Yes we do refuel the aircraft with pax onboard subject to the following precautions (abbreviated):
Two way comms between pilots and ground engineer established.
PA announcement stating refuelling in progress. Seat belt signs off, no smoking signs on.
Primary cabin crew at their doors.
Doors not being used for catering/embarkation must be ARMED/Automatic.
Pax to remain seated, seat belts unfastened. Careful check on no one smoking.
All aisles, cross isles, and emergency exits unobstructed.
When catering truck leaves a door it must be closed armed and manned by a cabin crew member.
Once refuelling is completed, the doors are disarmed, and primary cabin crew can continue attending to passengers.
No defuelling with pax onboard.
Fire services must be available, plus all routine refuelling precautions to be taken.
Hope this helps.
Just to add to the above, as well as company regs regarding this, local regs apply too. E.G. Fire Service NOT required to be in attendance in UK but must be in Italy. Nothing is simple!
Good points, MJ. While we are 'on a roll'
No HF transmissions
RatherBeFlying
8th Mar 2003, 13:41
I thank everybody for their good points.
There was no PA.
I believe the Seat Belt Sign was on, but can't say for sure.
The cabin crew (1) was at the door.
As for turnaround, the a/c had been sitting there for some hours. However the weather at CLE was deteriorating and it looks like extra fuel was ordered -- and later some of it was used.
RatherBeFlying
8th Mar 2003, 17:02
Canadian Standard 725.40 (http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/REGSERV/CARAC/CARS/cars/725e.htm#725_40) does not require a PA announcement or turning off the seat belt lights.
There is talk about "designating" two exits, but nothing said about telling the pax about them.
Ignorance is bliss -- as long as nothing goes wrong:rolleyes:
Then again, Jet A is far less hazardous than avgas. While I've seen reports of refuelling fires on piston airliners, I don't know of any on jets or turboprops.
FWA NATCA
10th Mar 2003, 14:52
Rather,
In all my years of passenger flying I have never heard an announcement being made when refueling was being done on an aircraft that I was sitting in.
I've seen inadvertant fuel spills occur when shutoff valves failed and fuel went spraying out the vents, or a hose fails, or once when the refueling nozzsle disconnected from the hose.
I have close to 30 years of aviation experience (military and civilian), from ramp rat, aircraft crew, to controller, and I have yet (knock on wood) to witness a fire breaking out during a refueling operation.
Mike
NATCA FWA
Am regular on Lufthansa transitting Cairo, where they do follow guidelines as per Pontius Pilot's reply; :cool:
But they still can't make tea & the food is 'crap' :* :*
PaperTiger
11th Mar 2003, 16:34
reports of refuelling fires on piston airliners, I don't know of any on jets or turboprops. Not many to be sure, but not unknown: http://aviation-safety.net/events/fir.shtml
And here's the NTSB filing for the 777: http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20010918X01956&key=1
How about a slightly different scenario, refuel while an engine is running...yes has been done under exceptional circumstances, with aircarrier/airport approval.
Khartoum...many years ago, TriStar aircraft.