London Manstons - New Airline

[lightning6901]

I have read a few things on here with reference to a couple new airlines from London Manston and some critics saying inaccurate statements etc... all very funny and interesting so I thought that I would do some serious research on what is going on and who is involved.

Mama Air (www.mama-air.com)
This company seems to be 100% honest and according to a few phones calls I made has a very experienced board of directors including leading travel industry professionals from all over the world. The MD is a strange choice though a chartered accountant by all accounts.

Secondly, the commercial director is a chap called Wesley Baker. Now I have come across that name before so did some research on him and found out that he is highly respected with in the travel business and has been a very senior employee and even director of a number of top travel companies including Thomson Holidays Group, America West Airlines, Cosmos Air Plc, to name just a few.... It seems he is the man that was behind Thomson in the late 80's launching a charter full brochure programme to Florida and the Caribbean that took over 2 million pax. He has also launched a couple smaller airlines over the years flying Airbus A320's and then he has moved on etc... According to my reference as well he is very similiar in concepts and ideas to Richard Branson of Virgin. This bloke own a couple internet companies and another specialist tour operator so I think it goes with out saying he knows what he is doing.

Can't understand why he is not the MD though must be something I am not seeing behind the scenes but having seen the images of Craig Mackinlay on an earlier posting maybe pretty boy has a rich daddy.

Regarding the rest of the board I gather former CEO's from major airports are involved and former financial directors of banks etc.... as well as other travel industry experts.

So why Manston I thought, nice airport being developed but surely hard to operate out of. I managed to get my hands on an investment document yesterday and they cleary state what they are up to and why and after reading it it seems that bloody well do know what they are up to for sure.

They have carried extensive market research through the south east and having selected the routes through a particular method I doubt it will not succeed. One thing is for sure is that with the commercial director being experienced I guess it now is a better opportunity than some of the other new airlines starting soon.

I also gather they are starting with 2 737's and the routes are increasing, has anyone else heard that?

Anyway hope that clears up the information somewhat it sometimes pays to ask the right people and then to contact them direct via email.

It also seems that the general conclusion is that Manston is the last big opportunity for country as a developing airport and Mama is getting in first.

Extra to all this I heard that another airline is also looking to start up from Manston or move operations to manston anyway with 5 new aircraft! starting summer 2002! anyone know anymore.

[Thoroughly Nice Bloke...]

lightning6901

I would like to be the first to thank you for taking the time to research and post such an interesting thread. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[FL310]

Lightning, there are thousands of Pruners here who did not understand that no Management reply was ever given to the accusations and statements already made.
Reading through your posting it answers this question, the only inquiry we all have now is, how genuine are your plans to start, when will you start and what position in management do you hold to make you trustworthy?

:) :) :)

[CargoOne]

MAMA AIR website looks like another dream airlines website. In fact this is the first time I see airline web site using original Boeing pictures and movies.
Anybody seen AOC application note in CAA publications?

[1.3VStall]

London Manston! What's next - London Brize Norton, London Lyneham? The mind boggles.

[Wycombe]

....what we perhaps should have had is London Greenham Common - excellent transport links to N/S (A34), E/W (M4) & main rail line very close, great natural site for a large airfield (hilltop plateau), sparsely populated under the approach to the Westerly runway etc etc

....unfortunately the runway's been cut up and "most" (except for those made of very thick concrete!) of the former USAF Buildings turned into a Trading Estate.

....oh, and very near to a busy airway (G1) and controlled airpsace aswell

Just to bring it back on topic, a much more sensibly located airfield than Manston!

[Big Tudor]

But wasn't there some caveat that once the USAF had finished with GC part of it had to be returned to natural habitat??
Often wondered why some of the charter airlines didn't get together and try to get it up and running. Would have been ideal for the very reasons listed by Wycombe.

1.3V Stall Since most citizens of the US refer to London, England we could build an airport anywhere. How about London / Berwick-upon-Tweed International Airport??

Before Stansted was picked as London's fourth airport, the old RAF airfield at Thurleigh, north of Bedford was considered. Probably just as far from London as Manston.

[stagger]

lightning6901

There are a couple of things that bother me about Mama Air (aside from the silly name).

1) The fact that the registered address is shared with the tacky <a href="http://www.mackinlay.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm" target="_blank">Casino Nights</a> franchise

2) The fact that the <a href="http://www.mama-air.com" target="_blank">Mama Air website</a> website has been put together using graphics and photographs ripped off from other sites (notably IBM and Boeing). And what about the 757 in the logo - strange choice for a 737 startup?

Have Mama Management actually bothered to read this <a href="http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/site_terms.html#copyright" target="_blank">copyright notice </a> from the Boeing site? Do they actually have permission?

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: stagger ]</p>

[Notso Fantastic]

One hopes Lightning6901 gets promoted in his new shiny airline! He's done enough 'promoting' already. Excuse me- it's fingers down throat time!

[lightning6901]

First of all guys and girlies.... I have nothing to do with the bloody airline. I only wanted to check it out thoroughly as in these testing times any company starting would need to be honest and have a fair chance but the impreesion I got on here was one of negativity and so its not surprising the industry is in a poor way.

These guys seem to be honest chaps and they seem to want to launch a solid airline.

What amazes me is the ignorance on this noticeboard. I mean I just filled everyone in and suddenly you think I work for them I dont, never met the company but just openly answered the points raised. What I will do is email them now and tell them to get on this board and answer some points and put everyone in the picture. As BT says it does not hurt to talk!

I reckon the website is **** hot, simple and fast loading and the use of boeing images is very good and very useful! Boeing have probably agreed it and it promotes them as well so what are you idiots all moaning about. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Lets see a little industry support for whats happening and just as one last point I have heard through my many sources mostly Rod Small at a major airline that he has heard this afternoon that Excel maybe providing the AOC and aircraft plus crew, but then again the document I am holding seems to say Flightline and I gather this is only a temporary matter anyway until they put everything in place for the AOC they will use CAA regulations etc... On another point to get a CAA bond only takes a couple months and if the money is in the bank then they need not apply until mid spring if they are flying June and start selling April! :)

Research does pay guys so dont just paste rubbish on here lets use these boards to help, assist, and maybe get us all some jobs.... For reference I work for Southwest in the US but have some leave at the moment and am over in Britian for 1 month or so. Its amazing what a bt of research does though!

[stagger]

lightning6901

With all due respect, if you think that the Mama-Air website is "**** hot" then you obviously don't get out much - on the web that is. It probably means you get out a lot in real life - unlike sad folks like me who spend far to many hours looking at web sites.

On the issue of copyrighted images you write " Boeing have probably agreed it and it promotes them as well so what are you idiots all moaning about." Well, if that's the case why are Boeing not acknowledged on the site for the images and videos? Shall I send an email to Boeing Permissions Licensing to ask them if they've agreed? Their email is [email protected]

And what about the images nicked from IBM?

These are matters that indicate a lack of professionalism on the part of Mama or whoever they've hired to build their little site.

On the subject of research - yes it is "amazing what a little research does" which is why I went to the <a href="http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk" target="_blank">Companies House</a> site and discovered the link between Mama and the tacky <a href="http://www.mackinlay.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm" target="_blank">Casino Nights</a> franchise. It's also how I discovered that Mr Mackinlay is already busy as a member of the National Executive Committee of the <a href="http://www.independence.org.uk/html/ukip_n_e_c_.html" target="_blank">UK Independence Party</a>.

So lightning6901, I'm not an "idiot" and I don't just "paste rubbish." These are all facts that I thought people might find interesting and I've posted links so people can see for themselves.

You on the other hand have "sources" and are "holding a document."

Anyway, if the money is "in the bank" as you suggest why were they looking for £1000 investors only last week? This has since been deleted from the web site though.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: stagger ]</p>

[stagger]

Just found this little piece of publicity put out in the middle of last year claiming a November 2001 startup date...

******************************************
AIRLINE PLANS LONG HAUL FLIGHTS FROM MANSTON

Scheduled flights across Europe and later to Australia,Thailand and the United States are planned for London Manston Airport. Talks between Wiggins Group and Mama Airlines, a new venture are ongoing. If Mama's plans are accepted the first flight will be to Malaga on 1st November and then the airline plans to develop its service to destinations such as Lanzarote, Alicante, Barcelona, Prague, Geneva, Lyon, Funchal, Bordeaux, Faro and Edinburgh. If the business takes off, Mama intends taking on more aircraft to serve long-haul destinations like Sydney, Bangkok and American cities. The venture could create up to 20 jobs, doubling over the next few years.
******************************************

And I stand corrected. It would seem that Mr Mackinlay does indeed have experience with flight operations. Found this on Deja News...

****************************
From: "Craig Mackinlay"
Subject: URGENT - we need 14 pigeons on Monday 24th May
Date: 1999/05/21
Message-ID: &lt;01bea320$46f07fc0$d75fac3e@ojzxmxqo&gt;#1/1
Organization: BT Internet
Newsgroups: alt.hobbies.racing-pigeons


We need 14 pigeons for release from Central London (Westminster) on Monday 24th May at 11am.

This is for a promotional stunt; we are willing to pay a reasonable fee for this service.

UK Independence Party
Campaigning to keep the Pound forever and for Britain to leave the European Union

****************************

You can follow <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22Craig+Mackinlay%22+pigeons&hl=en&selm=01bea320%2446f07fc0%24d75fac3e%40ojzxmxqo&rnum=1" target="_blank">this link</a> to verify that this is for real.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: stagger ]</p>

[snooze_ya_lose]

Why don't you ALL wind your necks in!

Any startup is extremely high risk, there are no guarantees, and irrespective of the honesty or otherwise of the key figures, luck will have a lot to do with it.

Yes, the manner in which lightning6901 posted is little naive, however the response from stagger is even more so. You might find casinos "tacky", but the fact remains that they can earn millions and as such are an astute investment- ask anybody on the Riviera/Cote d'Azur. The purpose of being in business, you may recall, is making money, whether you deal in gambling or airlines.

Similarly, I seriously doubt whether Boeing could give a toss about the use of images of their aircraft, in fact a large number of them are royalty-free and meant for use by the media. Go ahead and check though, if it satisfies you.

Finally, your point regarding political affiliations is childish to say the least.

I'm with lightning6901. give them a chance and see what they can do.

[MEVERTSGB]

stagger

QUOTE] The venture could create up to 20 jobs, doubling over the next few years. [/QUOTE]

Just goes to show how much they know about starting an airline.

[stagger]

snooze_ya_lose

1) I am certainly not naive when it comes to the money making potential of casinos. However, if you bothered to follow the link I provided you would have seen that <a href="http://www.mackinlay.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm" target="_blank">Casino Nights</a> isn't an actual casino. It's a franchise business offering the opportunity to "enjoy fun casino nights in your own home." Riviera/Cote d'Azur it ain't! More like rent-a-roulette wheel.

2) I raised the issue of the copyrighted images because it indicates that the website has been constructed on the cheap. Hardly likely to inspire investor confidence - and the site is soliciting investments.

3) You doubt that Boeing could give a toss? Well, did you bother to read the copyright notice I posted a <a href="http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/site_terms.html#copyright" target="_blank">link</a> to? It specifically prohibits unauthorised commercial use of their images, graphics and videos? And what about IBM? What's in it for them?

4) I only mentioned the connection with the UKIP to show that the person behind this venture would appear to be experienced in many areas - other than airline management. I didn't express any opinions about the UKIP agenda.

[myrddin]

Come on....we're dying to know.......which bright spark thought of the name Mama Air, and why? This is just asking for the **** to be taken.

[snooze_ya_lose]

Stagger

1)Yes, I am aware of what Casino Nights is all about, if you want to nitpick, my comment was regarding gambling and the money to be made from it in all its forms. The mentioned examples are simply to demonstrate the profit to be made.

2)Yes, it is quite possible that whoever did the site did it on the cheap. It is more likely that they did it very quickly. If you are judging the new company on that basis, your judgement is... well...

3)Yes, I read the notice. If you seriously think that Boeing are going to get excited over this, I suggest you don't know a whole lot about Boeing. IBM less so.

4)You didn't need to mention the UKIP at all- you did so as many find the party derisory, and you wanted the image to stick.

[flite idol]

Maybe Mama and b mi baby could code share and keep it in the family.