GPS Recommendations

[spils]

i am considering investing some of my hard earned pennies in a GPS for use in my flying - although i am not too sure what to look for and would therefore wholly appreciate any recommendations.
a colour screen is not important, but i would definitely like the "moving map" feature that you see on most of the devices in catalogues like transair.
i would obviously like to keep my costs to a minimum and am looking to spend around £400 as a max cost (so less would be better!!).
i guess taht cost also depends on where one is bought from too - so help on that wouldnt go a miss either.
feel free to private message if it is considered more appropriate.
cheers.

[Monocock]

Garmin GPS III Pilot every time.

I once had a Skymap II that went kaput and received absolutely no help from Skyforce (as they were then called).

I the invested in a Garmin III and have never looked back. Dont be put off by the smaller screen, it is fine and has some great features such as "highway in the sky" etc. that allows you to spend more time looking out of the windshield.

Mine came from a company with the initials of H M (and the last name is hard to spell if that gives you enough clues!)

[Final 3 Greens]

I've had a Garmin GPS 92 since 1998.

Although the moving map is small (and you check this out by having a look yourself), I find that the long battery life and small size more than make up for this.

I've found the unit to be reliable and accurate - most of the time I use the pages that gives me track, realtive bearing, cross track error etc.

Having said that, as the previous poster says, the Pilot 3 is a very good unit, although larger and heavier than the '92.

[bcfc]

Agree with Monocock

A yolk clamp is a good investment too as it keeps it away from the compass (tends to make it go all wobbly) and you can just refer to it as part of your normal scan. With those hig-powered rechargables, I'm getting about 8-10 hrs use which is plenty.

[Davidt]

It is unfortunate that a previous poster didnt get good service from Skyforce as my experience with their Skymap was that it is a fabulous bit of kit!

Its very comprehensive feature packed dead easy to use large screen. I wouldnt heisitate to recommend it.

I also had a problem with a unit they sorted with no problem cost me £80 but threw in a free database upgrade. As the retail cost of the database is £85 I thought it was a good deal.

The black & white model is@£450 +vat from Harry Mendeleshon's brilliant value.

I liked it so much that I upgraded to a colour KDM150 linked to a KLN 94

Have fun

[Go-Around]

Spils,
Please check your PMs

[spils]

Go-Around,

just tried replying but your mailbox is full. let me know when you have a clear out!!

[Cat.S]

I've got a Skymap II and love it to bits. Being chronologically challenged I find the screen large enough to use without having to put my reading glasses on. I cooked the remote antennae when I was parked at Wellesbourne on a really hot day and left it on top of the instrument cowl. Skyforce replaced the antennae under warranty within the week and updated the data base FOC. Great aftersales service.

I've got a Skymap II and love it to buts. Being chronologically challenged I find the screen large enough to use without having to put my reading glasses on. I cooked the remote antennae when I was parked at Wellesbourne on a really hot day and left it on top of the instrument cowl. Skyforce replaced the antennae under warranty within the week and updated the data base FOC. Great aftersales service.

[Monocock]

Cat.S, something bizarre has just happened.

If you read my earlier post you will see that I said my Skymap went kaput. What it did is exactly what your post has done, it told me everything twice, seriously it did!

The screen bisected itself and nothing could be done about it.

[T_richard]

This opinion may not translate into useful information to the aeronautics crowd but many of us who sail the high seas and inland waterways swear by the Northstar Chartplotter GPS.

Now the marine division was sold to Brunswick, but CMC Electronics still makes the Aviation stuff

website is www.cmcelectronics.ca

You might want to look there

On the other hand I may be completely off base here now that I check their web site. They used to make a aviation version of my chart plotter I swear!:confused:

[spils]

whilst trawling through the many internet sites for a GPS, i came across the Garmin MLR SP24XC (Free Flying) GPS. does anyone out there have any experience of this one as it is significantly cheaper than the pilot III yet when compared, seems to be fairly similar - with the exception of the jeppesson charts that is.

[Go-Around]

Spils,
I've now had a good clear out!

[AndyGB]

I've just (and I do mean just, it arrived this morning) got a copy of the Memory Map software and CAA charts that run on a Compaq iPaq.

I haven't tried it in anger yet, but having had a quick play with it this lunchtime it looks ok. Of course if you haven't got an iPaq then thats of no interest to you whatsoever.

[spils]

also whilst thinking about the Garmin III Pilot - how often do you have to update it with new maps etc and what do they cost and where do you get them from??
so many questions - but this is £400 of my hard earned pennies!! :-)

cheers,
spils

[Kolibear]

Well I've got a really cheap-skate Magellan - cost me £50 second hand.

You have to enter the co-ordinates of your destination/waypoints and it tells you bearing, distance, groundspeed and time to go. It works like a VOR/DME.

All of which means that you have to read the flight guide and look carefully at the map - which is excellent!

[scottish_ppl]

I know I'm in a minority but I have to say that I wasnt that impressed with the map display on my GPS III Pilot.

The moving map screen is almost so small as to be useless, and some of the map data is wrong, eg Cromarty Firth (If I remember correctly) is in the wrong place.

The screen that works like a VOR is very good, though, and I wouldnt dream of going any distance from base without having it with me so it must be doing a few things right.

Just make sure you see one for yourself before you buy is my advice. I've not used a Skymap unit in flight, but the map display looks better on its big screen.

The CAA maps on an iPaq look brilliant, but I'm not sure what functions are in there:routes, goto etc?

If you do decide to go for a III there there should be a lot of seconhand bargains about as people upgrade to the new Garmin.

[spils]

anyone own a Garmin GPS 92 then?? any thoughts on this product - seems quite good as it does the old flight comp too.

[ETOPS773]

I have a GPS 3 Pilot and think its a great tool and does all you can really ask of a cheap / handheld GPS..Screen is a tad small though and the base maps are comical in places! Was flying today and it was giving me 11ft accuracy and the yoke mount and standard antenea.

I just think they made the 196 a bit too big!!..otherwise,i`d probably get one of those.

[flyingfemme]

Just bought a third unit. We both use them all the time; batteries last a good, long time, databases easily changed or updated online, small enough to put in your pocket. Has all the detail you need to back up VFR or IFR flight plans. Who needs colour anyway?

[Monocock]

Skymap disadvantages:

1.Used as a portable, batteries last no more than a few hours. Go and get a quote for proper installation and you'll realise it's then cheaper to buy the colour Garmin portable. (Garmin III batteries last for 7 hrs +).

2. Skymap has no other useful features except the basic map mode. (Garmin III gives you fantastic airfield data, highway in the sky mode, a VOR sort of mode to let you steer an accurate course, flight time, odometer and MUCH more).

3. Skymap needs an aerial attachment with a long wire that has to be suctioned to an area of plexiglass somewhere and this is not guaranteed to stay in place. (Garmins small fold up antenna is fantastic and with over 300 hrs of flying use I have yet to lose signal for more than 30 seconds)

4. Skymap downloads limited (if any?) on internet. (Garmin has fantastic site for upgrades etc.)

5. Skymap isHUGE (and Garmin III is not)

Spils. if you need more convincing send me a PM, there really is no debate!!!!!!!!!!

[twistedenginestarter]

You've said you want a map, so this isn't really relevant, but I can recommend a Magellan GPS Pioneer as mentioned above. Mine was about £100 new and is like having your own INS. Gives you track, groundspeed, distance and bearing to waypoint, ETA and off-track error. Stick your airfield on it as a waypoint and you can do VOR/DME-like approaches. Very underestimated, these things. All the people that sell GPSs charge a huge mark-up so they don't want you to know about cheap devices. Why does Transair advertise the tacky E-trex? Just to make you think you've got to pay a fortune to get something useful.

[spils]

my apologies for trawling this thread up out of the depths again, but i am still investigating the whole world of aviation GPS and have so far been unable to make my mind up!!

anyway, i went down to shoreham on sunday to have a look at the pilot III which i did think was superb - and had to use all my willpower to hold me back from throwing plastic at the man behind the counter!!

the only thing stopping me is the world of the compaq iPAQ/Navman GPS where it would appear that you can upload CAA digi charts (1:500,000 and 1:250,000) and fly against those. this is obviously very appealing and all for a similar price to a pilot III (assuming you own an iPAQ already).

so my question is based on this. what are these like to operate? how user friendly is the software and what are the problems in using such a combination??

cheers,

spils.

[drauk]

Having the CAA charts (both half and quarter mil) on your PDA does work well. It is great for knowing exactly where you are and the software is very easy to use in this respect. In fact, you don't really interact with it at all (which is why it works so well) - you just look at the screen and it shows you the map around you.

It isn't so good for navigation in my experience. You can use the PDA or desktop to plot a route and it'll give you a heading to fly, but it won't give you a correction to your current heading, an ETA, your current position relative to a beacon or what have you, all of which you'd get from something like a Garmin Pilot III.

The Navman sleeve GPS is less than ideal in that the GPS reception is then a function of exactly where you place the PDA (on the yoke, your lap, the seat next to you or whatever), unless you use an external antenna. A very neat solution is a bluetooth PDA (the most recent iPAQ and Toshiba have them built-in) with a bluetooth GPS. It is expensive but it means there are no wires at all and the GPS can be positioned to get good reception. It's also completely portable. And for another 100 quid you can have sophisticated in-car navgiation for example (which you could with the Navman too).

The best setup I'ved tried for planes without any panel mount GPS is a Garmin aviation GPS for routing, whose signal also drives an iPAQ showing the CAA moving map.

[AndyGB]

DRAUK - I haven't used my iPaq/Memory-Map setup aloft as yet, only played about with it in the car.

I thought the track to next waypoint arrow would give a similar feature to a highway in the sky in that if you went left of track the arrow would point slightly to the right and gradually increase the angle of deflection as you went further off track.

So in order to get back on track you would just need to steer until the arrow was pointing ahead again or is that not the case. I know it doesn't tell you to steer x degrees to the left or right but surely that is not necessary ?

I'm a complete beginner so please feel free to put me right.

:D

[Mike Cross]

I'm with twistedengineer

I've tried the GPSIII and found the map a pain.

I have a cheapo Magellan GPS315. 500 waypoints, comes with a database of towns so you get the equivalent of a moving map but with towns and airfields (and any user wayponts you care to put in) marked on it. Very easy to relate to the chart and see where you are.

It has a rubber sucker mount and will run all day on a pair of AA's. Also have a serial cable to plug into my PC and Datasend on CD to upload worldwide waypoints from. There's also a shareware package called Magway which allows you to build your own databases and upload/download.

If I wanted to I could plug the serial port into a PC of some sort and get a full moving map display. Tried this with Microsoft Autoroute 2000 on my laptop and it told me I was driving up Portsmouth Harbour when I was on the M275. Not the fault of the GPS position, the digitised map in Autoroute is inaccurate.

There have been a lot of complaints about the accuracy of the airspace info in GPS databases. High resolution maps require a lot of memory so what you tend to get is things that approximate to the real thing but are not precise.

New CAA charts come out every 6 months, how often do users update their GPS databases and what Quality Assurance is there to ensure that the databases match the UK AIP?

It's an area that the CAA are taking an interest in at the moment.

Mike

[greatorex]

New CAA charts come out every 6 months, how often do users update their GPS databases and what Quality Assurance is there to ensure that the databases match the UK AIP?

At $35!!!!!!!!!!!!!! an update (Garmin Single Update), I couldn't agree with you more. . . Try following the M20 and see how it relates to the Pilot III map!

[spils]

having just read another thread on GPS Recommendations that seemed to be on a similar vein to this one, i thought i would just state that i eventually made up my mind and bought a Garmin III Pilot.
i took it flying yesterday for the first time and found the route log it stores to be fantastically interesting when sat on my sofa later in the evening.
my only problem with it is that when you have all the jeppeson database bits turned on (such as restricted areas, control zones, tower zones and all the land data) it does become very cluttered on the small screen.
i tend to use it as a confidence check more than anything, and all the info i need is on my half mil anyway so i did think for a while that maybe the extra £200 on top of a standard III may have been wasted - until i saw my track down boscombe runway which i could zoom in to really closely!! i'm afraid i have been sold on the gizmos it gives me and really feel it is money well spent.