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Getafix
3rd Mar 2003, 16:17
Now that were are all one big happy family heard something intresting the orther day.

With Michael O Leary wanting to sack the vast majority of the buzz Pilots and EJ screaming for Captains how much of an effect is this going to have on people awaiting for up grade will it knock these guys back??? Bearing in mind that would have a direct effect on pay eg Loilty bonus pay sector ect ect

And before you say anything I have nothing against anyone for joining as direct entry we all have to make a living.

FlapsOne
3rd Mar 2003, 16:32
Suggest this would get more appropriate responses on the company forum but considering the number of new aircraft inbound this year (737s and Airbus) I think there is likely to be plenty of room for all.

Colonel Klink
3rd Mar 2003, 18:22
easyJet's policy has always been to promote from within, the plan being to promote a career airline rather than having experienced and suitable F/O's continually bypassed by more experienced Captains arriving on a Direct Entry scheme.For the first time, this year we have enough guys to do the job, and the plan is for 60 pilots to be promoted by years end. Anyone joining now, no matter how experienced, will be as an FO, however there has been a fast track scheme for those with previous Command experience who meet the experience requirements (3000 factored hours) and who perform adaquately in the sim to be moved ahead of their lesser experienced colleagues.
If, due to the Airbus intro or unscheduled resignations, we run short of guys to promote, it may change but that is the policy at this time.

Hope this helps..................................:O

Kingfisher
3rd Mar 2003, 21:40
An airline get what it pays for. If it is going to constantly shaft its FOs to get cheap CAPTs it will rapidly get no FOs. My airline is pursuing an agresive non promotion policy and when things improve will rapidly reap what they have sown. My command and all my collegues has constantly been held back while others zip in to the left hand seat from outside. So much for my loyalty! I have been told this week that I can't have my command because Captain X from airline Y is having a tough time and wants to move to our airline, so my airline will bend over backwards to tend to his needs and screw us who have been with them for years. Good luck to the Easy jet guys looking for upgrades

unwiseowl
3rd Mar 2003, 22:25
Kingfisher - what do your company gain by pursuing that non-promotion policy? (a serious question, no sarcasm intended)

Kingfisher
3rd Mar 2003, 23:14
My company think their policy will save them money. They have no idea what they are losing in the long run. The employment situation is so bad at the moment that they can get away with it and there is nothing we lowly FOs can do.

Carnage Matey!
3rd Mar 2003, 23:39
Well Kingfisher if you turboprop FOs are not prepared to put up with direct entry Captains then there are plenty of piston engine pilots who will. Does that sound strangely familiar?

Buffet Boundary
3rd Mar 2003, 23:53
Colonel, try telling that baloney to all the senior first officers who saw their command prospects put back at least 18 months, when a certain Belgium operator went bust.

411A
4th Mar 2003, 02:14
Yes indeed, any rapidly expanding airline needs lefthand seat experience, and IF they cannot get it from the inside, the outside is the viable answer.
Does it result in 'hurt feelings'?...Yes absolutely, and if those so 'hurt' don't like the picture, they are free to move elsewhere....plenty to take their place.

It has always been thus, and ain't likely to change anytime soon...:rolleyes:

OTOH, always a smart move on managements part to throw 'em a bone from time to time.

TRF4EVR
4th Mar 2003, 06:12
Never seen this happen in the U.S.

I don't know maybe down at GIA (Gulfstream) aka. ScabAir.

God bless America.

thegypsy
4th Mar 2003, 07:46
Kingfisher If you think the day will ever come when any UK Airline will ever worry if F/O's like you leave to what you think are greener pastures,then you are living in a fool's paradise.

With the EU expanding there is an ever increasing number of qualified Pilots available , also due to a huge surplus of Pilots in airlines like SAS + large numbers of wannabes all paying their own way and seemingly prepared to pay for ratings ,licences,work for nothing etc etc.

There never ever will be a Pilot shortage in the UKand therefore unfortunately airline bosses will exploit that to the utmost and virtually do what ever they want.Supply and Demand always is the controlling factor.

Airbrake
4th Mar 2003, 08:53
The new terms and conditions recently accepted at Easy mean all new Captains will be on 10% less for the first six months, or put another way 5% less for the fiirst year or 2.5% less over 2 years!

At present they can get away with it, but it wasn't so long ago the company was giving 30k to DE Captains because they were so desparate. As always market forces drive all our salaries, but I will be interested to see how many if any of my colleagues hand in their notice at the end of this month when we get one years back dated pay, loyalty bonus and I believe disruption pay for our shambolic rostering. Easy already has major retention and sickness problems within the Cabin crew departement, but departures from the flight deck are not really giving cause for concern yet, hence no demand for DE captains.

Kingfisher
4th Mar 2003, 10:06
Yes Carnage very familiar and that is why it can happen. Our company has had this in place for about three years we think, they wont come and say what they are doing. As for moving elsewhere at present that isnt an option prehaps things will get better after the war is over.
Hurt feelings isnt really the issue we have senior FOs walking around with 3000 hours, as our company wont invest in them they are on the way out to others.
Our airline will feel it as it also costs money to train up FOs.
"Living in a fools paradise", possibly aviation is about making money in the end which keeps us all employed guess I tend to forget it somtimes.

Spartacan
4th Mar 2003, 10:26
From the easyJet website:

>>For the first time in easyJet's history we believe we can fill the majority of Left Hand Seat positions in 2003 via internal promotions. This is obviously great news for FO's and SFO's, both those who are already in the airline and those who are currently considering a position with easyJet. We may continue to recruit a limited number of Direct Entry Captains, however, this is subject to business needs.<<

Few Cloudy
4th Mar 2003, 10:38
Those guys applying for easyJet Switzerland should know that they are entering into a seniority list environment. A big effort is made there to promote FOs and there is no likelihood of instant promotion to Capt for an experienced FO just joining - he has to take his turn.

That said, what the Airbus 319 introduction (the Swiss are the launching section) will do to those ideals remains to be seen.

Sharp Surfer
4th Mar 2003, 14:12
Will easyjet be the place for a quick command for much longer? Is the U.K. low cost scheduled market becoming saturated?

Quote from latest Flight International:-

"Easyjet shares plunged after the airline revealed its average fare was 6% lower in the four months to the end of January compared to the same period a year earlier. It warns that yields are set to fall further."

easyjet have offered me a U.K. job starting in 4 months. I was thinking of leaving my present employer in the hope of a quicker command. Would I be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire?

Do you guys in easyjet think the U.K. expansion will soon stop and all those aircraft to be delivered used to establish european bases?

The Southend King
7th Mar 2003, 07:41
Direct Entry Command is always a function of supply and demand. While most of the Low Cost airlines have required DEC's because of the strong growth, that factor is now easing off (with the exception of Ryanair.

However, I hear EZY now have a serious command training backlog. Hopefully then can get it sorterd.

fmgc
11th Mar 2003, 11:55
They won't be able to sustain their proposed expansion plans, the market is already saturated especially with competition starting from EU carries (eg Hapag lloyd and Air Berlin).

They will contract if they don't go bust.