View Full Version : Cardiff ATC today.....
TwinAisle
2nd Mar 2003, 18:29
A moan....
Was it really necessary to impose such draconian restrictions on flying in and around Cardiff today, as a response to having 22 overpaid thickos kicking a pig's bladder about?
No flying until 1230....... a good two hours after the arrivals at the airport, at a time when we were back to usual Cardiff traffic levels - and then no flying after 1530 (at which time the match was still on - nothing heavy left until after 1730).
And an offhand - "Don't talk to us, take it up with airport management" from ATC, after which they hung up on us.....
I'm sure that there were genuine reasons for this very short flying window on what was a perfect day for flying.... it is a pity that the impression created was one of ATC indifference to other airport users.
BTW - why is Cardiff PPR until 1800h tomorrow (Monday?) All the football traffic will be gone by tonight.
TA (Frustrated!) :*
Flyin'Dutch'
2nd Mar 2003, 19:04
TA
They were curd I think as you moaned at the wrong peeps.
ATC just do as they are told by the rules which were made by their management.
I personally dont like being moaned at for something I have no reponsibility for.
Do you?
:eek:
Understand your frustration though; it was a cracking day.
FD (didnt fly either but that had nowt to do with football!)
TwinAisle......
I know yr frustrations - i wanted to fly in next Friday - the day before the 6 nations match - and it is PPR!! This means no cheap visit to mates in ATC.......and would have to pay full whack with Execair. No thanks.
HOWEVER - as an ATC'er it really pxxxxx me off when people complain at me for rules I am forced to enforce!
Show some slack old bean!!!
Grob Driver
2nd Mar 2003, 22:37
I agree that I don’t like being moaned at when I’m just doing my job and enforcing the rules laid down by others. However, it all depends how ATC attitude was / is towards you. What I’m trying to say is that there’s a way to handle these situations, and as TwinAisle says, to say “Don't talk to us, take it up with airport management" and then hang up isn’t relay necessary!
Cheers
Grob Driver
That silly game of football affects many more things than just trying to take part in an unrelated hobby these days- sad eh? I mean, who cares about it????? (ex-QPR fan)
TwinAisle
4th Mar 2003, 09:16
This wasn't really meant to be a dig at the hard working and polite people in the Cardiff ATC.... it was perhaps a tad badly worded (after a frustrating day staring at calm skies and empty runways) - although the "don't talk to us about it" and hang up was a little out of order perhaps....
The question was really - why was it necessary to have such a prolonged closure? Who decides on this - I thought it would have been an ATC decision, rather than an airport management one, but I am happy to be corrected.
TA
TwinAisle I have moved this here as it might get a better response than in the private flying forum as it has been there for a few days and not really got a good response has it. :)
flower
4th Mar 2003, 19:07
I can assure you this is not an ATC issue.
PPR is applied by the Airport Company not by ATC. PPR may be applied because of ground handling issues rather than ATC issues.
It does seem that a modicum of common sense could be applied at times and i myself did do this the other day to a private pilot allowing him to land at EGFF., only for him to be quite abrupt with me even though i had bent over backwards to let him land!!
It is worth trying to get a PPR slot from execair they only run the slots , they do not have to be your handling agent.
Scott Voigt
4th Mar 2003, 23:14
It's probably the same in Europe as it is over here in the States. Controllers don't close runways or airports. That is up to airport management. We just try to keep the metal apart. It's that way with departure routes and arrival routes too. We don't close them, pilots do that < g >. We keep folks flying in every which direction until a couple of pilots say that they aren't going to fly in that direction any more due to weather. It is only then that we stop things. So, when you think that all of these weather delays are ATC delays, they are indeed really pilot delays < BG >.
regards
Scott H. Voigt
Sparky_Online
5th Mar 2003, 18:27
To be fair to all, ATC are instructed to apply PPR for reasons of safety. Where possible, movements are allowed but must be restricted. It is annoying to think that ATC personnel really did make such comments on the phone and that is an issue to be dealt with separately. The clubs and ppls must realise that the Airport Authority calls the shots and representation must be made to them directly regarding any grievance. Their Airport, their rules. ATC follow them as must all other agencies. It has never been apparent that ATC or the Airport Authority have been unwilling to comprimise or show flexibility in their operation and I am sure that during the PPR days looming, this will be evident.
TwinAisle
5th Mar 2003, 19:23
Thanks to all for their comments. I was under the (mistaken!) impression that such things as PPR were (at least when applied temporarily) done by ATC. I stand corrected!
Best wishes to all in ATC, specially those at EGFF! I feel a letter to TBI coming on..... :eek:
TA
Just as a matter of interest. In Zurich they have such strict noise abatement rules that you can but only enforce them. One chap let an aircraft depart before 6am and there is now a disciplinary hearing against him.(It was only about 5min) He wanted to let the a/c depart instead of having him burn unecessary fuel at the holding point. Mostly ATC cant cooperate/help for fear of being punished by the authorities later..