Why is flying such a b*t*h fight?!

[OBK!]

Ok,

I browse the forums about once or twice a week, but everytime I see posts that are either taking the mik, or replies that are just worthless comments by those who I tend to think of as "cocky". Why cant we all help each other out.

When someone says something along the lines of "I want to fly this aircraft such a great distance" all they seem to get is hammered down by those arrogant people who become so frustrated and jealous that they post replies like "Can you give me your insurance company details" or "Well that's going to up he insurance premiums". Why can't everyone be equal?

I know there are those who are loaded, plenty of wonga, who can't stand others doing something that they haven't done. Childish really, but I just try and ignore these people. You can smell them from a mile off, even on the forums!

Anyway, that's my thoughts towards the "PPrune Diary" as it were. I doubt I have changed anything, just tought I'd have a banter.:rolleyes:

[formationfoto]

I guess there are a few answers to this:

Firstly don't ask such bloody stupid questions, get a life, don't waste the time of those of us who have thousands of hours and earn far too much - OK I didn't mean that just following the style of recent posts - and I agree with you it does seem as if we are a self mutilating lot.

Actually I think the answer lies in two areas.

Firstly (again but this time for real) being a relatively high time pilot requires either high flying achievement (doing it for a job) or high financial commitment (paying for your hours) and this can (though not always) bring a degree of arrogance and self importance.

Secondly forums such as this are not entirely representative of the flying community and tend to demonstrate extremes. The forum is a great invention but it does promote the sort of behaviour you have indicated, particularly when anonymity is promoted.

I guess you have to accept the benefits of a forum and try to filter out the rubbish and 'forum fodder'.

[Evo]

I think it is an internet thing, rather than a flying thing. On an anonymous usenet-style forum it is easy to misunderstand what people have written, and easy to fire off a flame in reply that you would never say to someone's face. Increasing numbers on the forum just increase the chance of people starting to flame each other.

It isn't just here, though. Flamewars happen everywhere, and many fora are much worse than this one...

[DB6]

True, you get a much better class of flamewar here than on the PNBRune (Professional Nightclub Bouncers Rumour Network) website :ouch: :}
Come to think of it, there are probably a few of them over on the instructors' forum :E

[Evo]

Nah, mate - yer names not dahn your not commin in to PNBRune := :8

[Keef]

I have a theory.

You write what you mean, and it's potentially controversial but not aggressive.

I come along and read it, having had a bad day and being thus in a fractious mood. I read into your post an aggression that isn't there, and therefore reply with some vitriol in my words.

You see that, get angry, and reply in kind, and off we go.

There's a wonderful series of examples in a book I use a lot, from a variety of sources including most of English (and other) literature. Man breaks down a mile from the nearest farmhouse, needs a jack. It's 3am. Walks towards the farmhouse. Goes over in his mind what he'll say to the farmer; expects him not to be delighted. By the time he gets to the farmhouse, he's expecting a torrent of abuse. Knocks on the door. Friendly, cheery farmer who's had his breakfast and is about to go to milk the cows, opens the bedroom window and says "Yes?". Motorist replies "You know what you can do with your ****! jack" and storms off down the lane.

Agree your point about those with lots of hours - some are professional (and some of those relaxed, cool, gentle) pilots who are a bit fed up with seeing the same question asked for the Nth time. They usually reply with a reference to the last time it was asked - and the asker gets ratty because they haven't rewritten it all.

Others are, as you say, affluent b*s who like nothing more than proving their superiority. I let them think they are superior, while knowing that really they are 1.00 human beings the same as thee and me.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi OBK,

First of all congrats on your twin rating!

As others have said here it is due to a multitude of factors that you can get flame wars on email lists and forums.

1.

a. Anonimity promotes a feeling of invincibility. There is evidence that suggests that the amount of cr@p spouted on these internet interactive boards is inverse proportionate to the anonimity. A good example of this can be found on the Flyer forums recently.

b. Dishonest people. Unfortunately not everyone is what they seem to be. How do I know that you have got your twin rating? Well you told me so! But for all I know you may well be some nerd who has nothing better to do than to trawl these forums; gained enough knowledge to post a half decent post and away you go. Not something particular to flying, after all, that is why the police invest so much time and money in trying to find paedophiles who groom kiddos in chatrooms.

c. People's inability to reason and bring forward their arguments in a constructive manner. Much easier to put people down than to analyse what they are saying and helping them along. How many people write letters regularly? Email is great and good but you can clobber something up pretty quickly with little effort or skill.

d. At five hours I knew nothing; at fifty hours I knew something; at 500 hours I knew at all; at 5000 hours I knew I had a lot to learn syndrome. The more you know the more you know that you dont know it yet. Unfortunately not everyone has learned this wisdom which applies invariably to all walks of life.

2. 80% of interhuman communication is non-verbal. No matter how many smileys or other emoticons you put in your posts it will never make up for face to face contact.

Funny thing is that if these folk get together they usually get on fine!

Just my tuppence worth.

FD

[poetpilot]

I like Keef's comments a lot.



:O

[Whirlybird]

Oh come on now; it's not all like that. People have posted and been given loads of advice at times. I personally have had tons of useful stuff from PPRuNe. And I've seen threads on subjects like "how to learn to land" run for pages.

However, it isn't always like that, and what other posters have been saying is true. You see, there's also the fact that some of us have been reading this forum for years. And the same old questions and topics come up, and we get bored. And we deliberately try to find something controversial to liven things up; Hairyplane did it (brilliantly!!!!) with his landing in the garden thread, and I tried to do it with my comparison of driving and flying thread. And I've been away a week, and it's run to three pages, and I've even been flamed; wow, what fun!!! :)

So, you see, there is more to this forum than you realise. Stick around, and if you have a genuine question, I think you'll find people will be more than helpful. Well, at least some of us try to be some of the time. :)

[AerBabe]

There's also the fact that many of the posts are written tongue-in-cheek, and between friends.

For example, I can tell Whirlybird she shouldn't be posting on a thread about f/w flying ... cos she's an egg-whisk pilot and therefore can't possibly have a valid input to it.

You come along and read my post, thinking "God, that AB's really arrogant", while Whirly and I are off having a good laugh about it over a mug of coffee.

BTW - Keef - after your last email I had to go and have a lie-down. I never knew what a mean s*d you could be!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

OBK!

Just think about all the pent up aggro that gets released here.

PPrune probably saves lives ;)

By the way, I want to fly this aeroplane a long distance ....

[Whirlybird]

Aerbabe, you high flying scary woman you, you are DEFINITELY arrogant...and anyway I've got far more fixed wing hours than you have, so there!!!!

Oh dear, this isn't Jet Blast is it; I'm supposed to be serious!!! :D :D :D :D :D

[dublinpilot]

Sometimes people seem to misread the original post too, and wind up getting upset about a question that was not even asked!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[AerBabe]

Oooh, Whirly! Who are you calling arrogant?! Little Miss "My PPL training wasn't good enough, so I'm going to become a instructor a show them how to do it properly". :p

[sennadog]

Hmmm. Some interesting comments but the one thing that confuses me is why individuals would want to pretend to be someone whom they aren't. I understand the anonymity aspect could lead people to being more agressive than normal (or their post comes across as too black and white leading to misunderstanding) but why go to the bother of the pretense.

I try to approach posting in the same way I give speeches of presentations. If you try to be too clever, using words that you normally wouldn't it doesn't come across well. I just try to use my normal conversational tone and the presentation comes across as being far more relaxed and thus more effective. The same goes for posting - just be yourself.

As for the same questions being asked time and time again, if it bothers you then don't bother posting in that thread.

I've been lucky enough to meet a few people on here who have been more than helpful in real life and I've met a few that I have nothing in common with - the same as real life. I wouldn't let it bother you too much matey - get on with your flying and enjoy it and try to ignore the Professional PPLs.

[Whirlybird]

Right Aerbabe, that does it! This is WAR. I'll meet you at dawn; choose your weapon. No, on second thoughts, since we're both pilots, I think we should have a landing contest; who can land on the shortest, muddiest grass strip with most obstacles at either end, and upset the most nimbies. Hmm... Hairyplane, maybe we could borrow your front garden. Or would White Waltham be better. Nah, they're both too big. Has anyone got a suitably small front garden?

On second thoughts, forget the flying. Let's just see who can upset the most people with outrageous posts. :D :D :D

[AerBabe]

Right Whirlyb!tch, you're on! :*
I think we should incorporate a low-flying contest though, so we need a washing line to go under.
It's a good job these forums are anonymous, so no-one can report this to the CAA. Thank God nobody knows who we are!
See you at dawn. :mad:

[Whirlybird]

Aerbitch, dawn is too easy. This should involve night flying, preferably in poor vis, if not fog!!!!!!!!!!

[formationfoto]

Whilrything - you just need to make sure that the landing area is not too far away with rules which prevent refuelling en route! AB will get there then crash in the small garden you simply wouldn't get there. I can however offer my garden in Norfolk which has large trees at the end and medium trees each side. Fixed wing sub or similar would get in but would need to wait for a strong wind to get out again. R22 / R44 or similar would easilly make it - (I have done it). Hoping to roll and mow for an autogyro.

If you are stuck for a contest location just shout - had an R44 have to put down for low fuel a few hundreds yards from me last year - wasn't intending to visit just got a little lost trying to find somewhere else.

Anyway what was the point of this again?. Oh yes the post was something about rudeness and stuff so I had better withdraw that offer and would if only I could stop wanting to be helpful to fellow aviators.

[Keef]

AerBabe wrote:

BTW - Keef - after your last email I had to go and have a lie-down. I never knew what a mean s*d you could be!!!

You ain't seen nuffink, scary woman! That was me in helpful, calm, collected, friendly mood...


Anyway, on Friday evening I motored very close to WhirlyBird territory (over the Berwyns, stopping for dindins at the Tanat Valley Arms, and very nice it was, too). Wouldn't want to be anywhere near there in anything resembling IMC. I reckon you two'll just have to kiss and make up :eek: :O

Today was Calais trip - vis all of 2km vis leaving and returning to EGMC. I bet some folk'd tell me we shouldn't have gone in that orrid wx. A great day out!

[Hilico]

Flying isn't such a b*t*hfight, or whatever you said.

I have eleven (count them) hours on helicopters, and most of the time had to concentrate less than when I'm driving. The only time that wasn't so was when making a radio call while actually landing; you know, pushing it through the ground cushion and feeling for the ground.

This isn't to say that the flying was easy. But it was a lot easier being at least a mile from the nearest other moving object than it is being in a four-wheeled box with other four-wheeled boxes in front of, behind and to the right of you being driven by people who had neither a clue nor a care, closing at up to 120mph while holding a mobile to their ear.

It's driving that's the b*t*hfight.

[OBK!]

Hilico,

sorry I think your confused with what i mean. I meant on the forums.

[Final 3 Greens]

Keef

Today was Calais trip - vis all of 2km vis leaving and returning to EGMC. I bet some folk'd tell me we shouldn't have gone in that orrid wx. A great day out!

Whaadya mean orrid wx????

When I lived in Leeds, this was a perfect VFR day ;)

[AerBabe]

:O Whirlybitch - I missed dawn. I was too comfortable in bed, with your endomorphic grey cat curled up by me. Can you do a week on Thursday?

[Whirlybird]

Chickened out did ya Aerbitch ? Well, why am I not surprised.

[bcfc]

Am I the only one to be aroused by this thread? :E