View Full Version : Bad news from Gandalf Airlines

30th Jul 2001, 20:48
Today, 30-07-01, was sent 8 letters (4 cpt and 4 pil) that will be fired in the next days. By the way the chief pilot, the chief of instruction/simulator, and the DOV Cpt Lilla, will be fired maibe.

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: onlybyplane ]

Obi Wan Kirk
31st Jul 2001, 17:27
Gandalf is truly falling to pieces and has a few weeks to go. At least the guys fired yesterday will be getting their money.

A copilot left yesterday morning for Barcelona for a 4 day trip and was called in his hotel room at 16.50 informing him he had been fired and that he had to pack his bags, rush to the airport to catch the 18.20 flight to Bergamo. The interesting thing is that the week before the company had sent him to the sim to do 8 hrs training for his LPC/OPC and Cat II training that he completed successfully. Gandalf Airlines so called restructuring plan doesn't seem very clever!
A Captain who lives abroad arrived in Italy yesterday afternoon after being home for the weekend. After switching his mobile phone on got a call from Personnel informing him he was fired. It would of been better to have not had him fly all the way to Italy...

Captain Lilla, together with other 5 senior Captains will be fired shortly because they can go into retirement. I wouldn't be too concerned though because when Gandalf folds who is still in will not get their last salary.

Eureka, the maintenance company is about to close because Gandalf have not paid the maintenance for 5 months!

It's sad to see this airline dissappear off the map as it was a pleasant environment.

america's cup
31st Jul 2001, 18:33
....and this is the challenging and rampant airline that went also into the Stock Exchange with a very big advertisement campaign?....but please....
The real big problem with 90% of italian airlines is with their managements...am I too conservative with this figure?...
I doubt that those people would be even able to run profitably an outlet at the fruits and vegetables market around the corner.
"O pesce puzza da' capa", they say in Naples (=fish stinks from his head) cannot be more true!
Investors, before filling up such positions, should, at least, look at the history of those individuals and less to their "MBAs"....there are so many cases of people being appointed to those seats who have a professional story of disasters with other airlines (very likely with their pockets very full). Still they get into it.....this is really unbelievable... so, except them (managers)everybody loses: investors, employees and customers.

31st Jul 2001, 18:49
Obviously flying the Do328TP and the Do328Jet would provide excellent operating experience for any pilots - the flight decks alone (mega-EFIS) are far more advanced than 95% of all other aircraft types.

That being said, where are former Gandalf pilots headed? Which airlines are picking up these experienced pilots? Any examples? Where are they going?

Good luck Gandalf pilots!


Obi Wan Kirk
31st Jul 2001, 22:03
Where are Gandalf pilots heading?

Most are trying to get onto something bigger like the A320 or B737 Next Generation. The problem is it usually takes about 3 months to find another job.

Any ideas about who could hire these guys?

1st Aug 2001, 00:34
I would say they are heading to AirEurope as they need pilots now. :eek:

Obi Wan Kirk
1st Aug 2001, 13:45
A few Gandalf Pilots have been offered jobs in China on a two year contract on the Do328 jet.

IAC, the crew leasing agency will have to pay these guys a lot of money if he wants them to go out there.

Aireurope is now Volare Airlines and the pay is very low and the bond very high.

1st Aug 2001, 13:53
Air Europe is still there,so is Volare Airlines and both are in Volare Group.Things might change soon,depends on which grouping will absorb The Qualiflyer (SWR led)Group.

1st Aug 2001, 13:59
just testing

1st Aug 2001, 14:07
So who is now in charge at Gandalf ??

1st Aug 2001, 14:26
Yu owed as well, Tim?

1st Aug 2001, 14:49
Nope, just interested to see who I should talk to there (we have some suggestions from previous project that could save them a lot of money)

[ 01 August 2001: Message edited by: TimS ]

Obi Wan Kirk
1st Aug 2001, 15:31
Captain Roberto Lilla, the Manager Flight Ops will be going in the next few weeks. Rumour says that Captain Mario Dongellini will be taking his place.
Dongellini is the union leader and I'm sure ANPAC would be happy to have him in the drivers seat. However, Dongellini's career record is interesting: Flown for Viasa, Continental, Eastern, Air Dolomiti, Lauda Air and Gandalf. He has a degree in Aviation management and flown all types of aircraft. the only problem with him is that he has a very volatile personality and has no idea what diplomacy is. In any case it really doesn't matter because the airline will fold very soon.

Gandalf Airlines from the very beggining was set up as a financial operation and as an airline. The investors, together with the 3 young men that wrote the project have all made a profit. Gandalf is the only airline in the world to have gone public within 6 months of starting. Southwest Airlines, Ryan Air and easyjet all waited at least 5 years and until they were profitable before doing so. The owners are now lots of small investors that are running around showing off the fact they own part of an airline. You know the butcher from Bergamo who was talked into investing $10,000 of his life savings in an airline...

1st Aug 2001, 15:53
Thanks for info OWK - very helpful.

How about general/commercial management rather than flight ops.

Reply to my email if you prefer ...
[email protected]

1st Aug 2001, 17:02
Tyrolean Airways has just signed a new contract with its pilots. Thus they will need about 15% more crew to scedule according to the new rules. As they will lose crews from their DH8 fleet to their jet fleets the demand on DH8 should be quite considerable. DO-328 crews might fit well into their turboprop fleet.

tarjet fixated
2nd Aug 2001, 19:32
National Jet Italia went public after 1 year of operation on the London Stock exchange....and it's not run by italians.

Obi Wan Kirk
2nd Aug 2001, 21:57
National Jets Italia is run very well and I hear that the people working for them are happy.

I reckon Italian people are capable of running an airline but they have to have the humility to learn from more experienced people. The ideal situation would be for Italians to work together with a team of foreign managers.

Going back to Gandalf, after talks with the unions yesterday they may be a chance of Air France saving the airline by taking it over. my question is would that be a wise move? After all Alitalia and Air France have just signed a commercial agreement and I don't think they need Do 328 Jets in their fleet combined with debts and problems. I am sure that Italians and French can get together and cook a good meal, can they revive a dying airline without help from another source?

2nd Aug 2001, 22:20
National Jet Italia is run very well?Ask those who actually work there since you seem to know them....
Ask them about their contracts....
Ask them how legal they are and what will the tax man do when they get caught.....

Mile High Man
3rd Aug 2001, 02:18
Hey Obi Wan Kirk you have been fired already from Gandalf, and you know what??? everybody was very happy about that!!! :D so pleaseeee stop bashing Gandalf and Italian aviation!!!
You tried to join Easyjet too but you never passed the simulator....
Now that you have been fired maybe Gandalf has more chances to survive.

Mile High Man
3rd Aug 2001, 02:25
and about you "tarjet fixated" wash your mouth before talking about Italians and Italian aviation.
Italians are the best and wherever you are from remember that our grandfathers were crossing Atlantic Ocean by planes when your grandfather was grazing sheep... : eek:

hot sausage
3rd Aug 2001, 12:39
Mile High Man - Take your rose tinted glasses off. Italians THINK they are the best but the reality is quite different. I know of various incidents with this so called airline that would make your hair stand on end. Examples are Instructor Pilots breaking minima, pulling CB's to blank out EFIS screens and sounding fire warning bells just after Take-Off. All this with pax on board. They even sent a new to type Captain to LCY without steep approach training!!!Coupled with no proper SOP's this makes for a dangerous airline which should have been grounded a long time ago.

Obi Wan Kirk
3rd Aug 2001, 14:06
Mile High Man you seem to be very mad at everybody.
We all know that the world of aviation is always a rollercoaster ride, there are good companies and bad ones.

I hope Gandalf Airlines survives because there are good people working for them and if it doesn't most will find jobs with other carriers.

As far as my case goes I have nothing against anyone and hope that Mile High Man finds another job too.

Easyjet is agood airline expanding rapidly and consequently suffering from growing pains. they have a training window, if you are hired and arrive at their standard within the window you stay if not you're out. They can't afford to act differently, I'd use the same policy if I were part of their management.

Gandalf are only trying to restructure the company in order to save it. When this happens the last people hired are asked to leave. This happens in any industry. It is better to make redundant 100 people and save 200 people's jobs than keep all 300 and shut the company down. they are doing the right thing. Too bad for the jobless but today's market works this way, these are the rules of the game. Job security probably only exists with Airlines like British Airways, Alitalia, Lufthansa, etc...

Mile High Man
3rd Aug 2001, 15:41
Obi Wan Kirk I'm not fired, YOU ARE!!!!
and btw i hate mormons.... :p

Obi Wan Kirk
3rd Aug 2001, 16:40
Mile High Man there is a BIG difference between being fired and being made redundant.

Gandalf Airlines has not fired anybody.They are making people redundant due to their fleet reduction. This is being done to save the company and consequently people's jobs, like that of Mile High Man.

Captain Lilla is doing his best to place all the pilots made redundant with other airlines and is doing a very good job. So far people have either started work with another airline or in the process of doing so.

tarjet fixated
4th Aug 2001, 17:04
Ueila' Mile high man,
innanzitutto sono piu' italiano di te e poi impara l'inglese prima di dire cazzate...il mio messaggio era tutto dalla nostra parte dato che ho solo detto che anche gli inglesi vanno in borsa dopo solo 1 anno di operazioni.
Per quanto riguarda la tua appartenenza al mile high club esprimo i miei piu' profondi dubbi dato che gli arroganti e frustrati come te sono cosi per mancanza di sesso.

4th Aug 2001, 23:14
Obi Wan,

I completely agree with you about the need for humility of italian managers currently in charge of airlines.
What I don't agree with is that Italy would need foreign managers. I think that Italy has very good managers, but the trend today is to hire the "predator" ones and not the "illuminated" or the skilled.
Greed is what drives the civil aviation business today in Italy.
So maybe I would say that things would be better if "some" italian managers learnt humility from the foreign managers, and used it to learn how to run an airline.

target fixated, no use of getting mad at me, I'm italian too :D

5th Aug 2001, 04:38
Mile High Man,

You have a great attitude. I wonder what it would be like to fly with you? Can anyone say "jerk"? You sound like a complete a-hole - it's people like you who diminish the inherent fun of flying.

I don't care if Obi Wan Kirk was fired or not hired - or whatever - you don't have to use this forum to thrash anyone. This just demonstrates your lack of professionalism. Obi Wan has been very helpful in providing information from time-to-time - and you haven't. So, why don't you just shove it and work on yourself instead of castigating others...

You hate morons? Well, I hate belligerent jerks who are so insecure with themselves that they need to put down others to feel better. Don't use this forum to trash others - you waste our time and make yourself look BAD...

Viva Italy!

Obi Wan Kirk
6th Aug 2001, 20:32
There are some very efficient Italian managers and entrepreneurs that head companies in Italy and elsewhere, it would be nice to see some of them leading some of the airlines in Italy. Air Europe was doing very well before Volare took over, I don't know if it is still run well.
If we take the examlpe of Italian football when the Michel Platini's and the Diego Maradona's arrived on the Italian football scene Italy won the World cup and produced world class players such as Gianfranco Zola and Alessandro Del Piero. they can do it, it's a matter of having the right people in the right place.

The Italian Airline industry has great potential and maybe a mix between Italians and world class airline experts could produce an AC Milan of the Airline industry...

7th Aug 2001, 01:16
Hi Mile High Man,
I totally agree with you concerning your posts.
I think that all of this bunch of stupid copilots would be better off studying how to enter a plane rather than spending time here talking about some things that are over their small heads.
Don't forget that a copilot is considered the least professional position on a plane, well behind any stupid flight attendant.
We don't use monkeys on the right seat just because they can't do English radiotelephony.
Keep on Mile High Man!!!

Hank Rogers
7th Aug 2001, 13:16
Obi Wan Kirk your not right, Air Europe was not doing good, in fact they were doing very bad. Now both Airlines of the Volare Group are doing good, as far as I know.
I heared a lot of strange things from Gandalf, about the standard very bad pilots etc. I hope it is not so bad as I heared and I hope it will recover.

Obi Wan Kirk
7th Aug 2001, 13:29
The standard in Gandalf is quite good according to who trained you. It's as if there were two airlines in one.

As far as Air Europe-Volare goes, friends who fly for them have told me it was better when Air Europe was on its own...but I must say these are only opinions.

As far as copilots go any real pro will recognize that the Captain, First Officer and the Flight Attendants form a team whose goal is to transport pax from A to b in safety. To quote a more knowledgeable source than myself. After the accident on Mt Erebus the New Zealand Air Line Pilots Association (NZALPA) quoted:

"...it is the inherent responsibility of every crew member, if he be unsure, unhappy or whatever, to question the pilot in command as to the nature of his concern. Indeed, it would be going too far to say that, if a pilot in command were to create an atmosphere whereby one of his crew members would be hesitant to comment on any action then he would be failing in his duty as pilot in command."

So chaps team work is the name of the game!

7th Aug 2001, 16:57
Spoke to a friend at NJI yesterday:
apparently ground stuff, F/A's and some pilots haven't been paid this month!
It's not about bad italian managers me thinks....it's about bad managers in general no matter which passport they hold (NJI is managed by english and aussie people).