University Tuition Fees - a pilot's view?

[Kurtz]

I just wondered what most professional pilots think of the latest proposals for University fees to be repaid by the graduate in later years. There is a whole lot of grousing, grumbling, whingeing and whining going on about actually (shock, horror) having to pay for one's education.
Apart from the fortunate pilots either trained by courtesy of HM, or via a sponsorship, most have to go into very significant debt for years to pay off the cost of the training to obtain the career.
It might be devoutly wished that someone else would pick up the tab, but in most cases, it is just something to be done if one wants the training for the job opportunity.
Even though I have potential candidates of my own coming up for University in the near future, I can't honestly object to the concept of having to pay one's own way to obtain a qualification for a better job.
Any thoughts?:p

[angels]

I think this post is going to be moved PDQ!

[Lazlo]

The public have to wake up and realise that this is the real world we are living in. Further education costs lots of money and someone has to pay for it. I think a subsidy is good and helpful as having an educated population does help make a prosperous nation, but to subsidise university at the enormous levels this government is doing (and still will be doing after these changes) is too much. The simple fact is that if university is too accessible and affordable then there will be so many graduates looking for jobs after they have their degrees that the actual value of the degree will be worthless.

The government took away the tiny subsidy they provided for flying training when they abolished the NVQ tax relief. This has meant that many pilots are in even more debt than before and for years to come (like myself - I have been employed as a pilot for many years now but still have to pay back loans which significantly affects my take-home pay).

Watch out though. If your kids want decide they want to become pilots and then the airlines decide they want pilots to have degrees as well as licences, then you really are screwed. This is the case in the US and Canada.

Lazlo

[GeneralMelchet]

I find it difficult to justify fees for further education when I got a grant and my fees paid when I went to college.

The current problem is due to the government policy of sending almost everyone to university - regardless to their suitability or desire to be there.If you look at school exams these days and see how hard it is to actually to fail anything.Everyone must have a qualification (regardles of its value) and there is no effort at school to find out where people real talents or desires are.Universities on the other hand have had to lower standards to let people in.This devalues the whole system and we will lose hugely talented people who cannot afford or are scared off by the thought of huge debts.

There is very little alternative for kids these days.Vocational training is under resourced and very few companies offer apprenticeships.

The real question is how do we provide this country with a plentyful supply of tradespersons and other skills and allow those who want to attend Uni do so without generating a mortage before you even start work.

I know for a fact if I had to pay fees and living costs I wouldn't have gone to college and wouldn't have the job I have today and wouldn't have paid the taxes to the Chancelor that have more than covered the costs.

[P.Pilcher]

I think the above contributions have said it all ... but aviation still takes the biscuit. I was lucky: in days of yore, I paid for a PPL, got an instructor rating, got others to buy me over 1000 hours. Then got my CPL and ATPL for the cost of the non approved training - about £4000 back in 1980.
Before I lost my last job, I remember flying with a first officer who had loans in the region of £80,000 and was trying to pay it back on a salary of £17000 p.a. I quote:" I can just about manage the interest, but the bank are soon going to want me to start paying off the capital as well."

She wasn't doing much flying at the time ...I wonder if she still has her job?

[Send Clowns]

What I hate is the lies used to justify this. "Graduates earn £400,00 more in a lifetime" is a load of balls. An average graduate may earn that much more, but that is not what some inumerate woman from the government said. She effectively said all do, which is obviously crap. I'll never earn what plumbers earn round here. None of the jobs I have ever held required a degree. I coud have earned the same at a given age with just A levels, but earned for 3 year in the meantime, so I have lost 3 years' earnings.

Not only that but it is irrelevant. You are comparing two groups of people who are not distinguished by a single characteristic, a degree. The groups have great differences in average academic ability as well as many other characteristics that may be beneficial.

Thank you for reading my pet annoyance of the past few weeks. :D

I also agree with Melchet - what is the point of sending everyone to university? We could afford it when it was around 20%, a reasonable proportion.

[compressor stall]

A country like the UK or Australia can really only compete economically with research, development and technology industries on a world scale.

These "intelligence industries" (my expression) can only be furthered by further studies at a tertiary level. To charge people higher and higher fees for studying will only discourage people from continuing in this education, to the ultimate detriment of one's economy.

For the long term it makes economic sense to have free education. But try telling the beancounters in a government that.

[Send Clowns]

But there is no evidence that more people will need tertiary education than do now. Even many of those with degrees could do their job without, or else could do so if the employment requirements did not stipulate a degree. Why does a management trainee need a degree? Why does a primary-school teacher need a degree? Yes a training course, but that need not be as long or as involved as a degree, making it less expensive and more attractive, bringing in the teachers we need to replace those lost because little brats have never known authority or restriction.

[helipilotnz]

i am currently halfway through a diploma in aviation at Southland Institute of Technology in Invercargill, New Zealand. this involves a diploma in management and a cpl(a) with a multi inst rating or a cpl(h) with turbine rating. i am doing a bit of both. a cpl(h) and
ppl(a), instrument(a) and turbine rating with the option of the remaining PIC time and C cat rating. the managent diploma is a free scheme and i get a student allowance to live on as the course is two years full time. the flying cost are paid by a government loan of which at this stage i will have to pay back. the debt is going to be big but everytime i get into the cockpit it seems worth it. when i was learning a trade, i paid for it with low earnings and the crap jobs. if you want to get ahead, i think the sacrifices should be made by the person who wants it. this makes sure you put 100% effort in and the reward at the end to me is worth it. my loan at the moment is $110,000 kiwi with the possibility of about another 50k for the PIC time and c cat. i just hope i can get a job in the industry at the end of this year. as for the loan, i dont care if it ever gets paid off. i will leave a legacy to the government when i die.