Who still uses a whiz wheel? [Archive]

SKYYACHT

21st Jan 2003, 04:37

I bought a Jeppesen Flight Computer 20 years ago, and I STILL use it for my pre flight planning, just to give a heads up on potential drift corrections.

However, I use all available means to create a plan. I have used Navbox and got a plog print out, and I have also used a handheld GPS to build the back up route. This has the benefit of giving me highly accurate true headings to double check the manual plan that I have created using the CAA Chart/Whizzwheel.

To address the other issues, I normally plan my flight using obvious geophysical waypoints and fixes, but naturally incorporate into the plan any handy VOR/DMEs or NDBs to add extra accuracy.

For me, part of the fun and skill of flying is doing everything necessary for the safe conduct of the flight manually.....

Blue skies

:D :D

Archard

21st Jan 2003, 05:21

Like many polls a one answer reply is not really suitable, as I tend to use the last three suggestions in combination, namely, navaids, GPS and know where I am going, at least when near to my home base. Unfortunately I cannot remember the last time I used the whiz wheel apart from saying it was definitely several years ago now!

bcfc

21st Jan 2003, 07:26

I haven't touched the whizz wheel since the day I got my Sportys flight computer. Well, a slight exageration as I did a comparison and found I was much faster and accurate with the computer than the wheel. (If they were better, surely we'd still all be using slide rules insead of calculators)

That said, I suspect I'll need to bone up on it again as I'm doing my IMC and the whizz wheel seems to be a requirement for the written (or is it???)

Aerobatic Flyer

21st Jan 2003, 07:35

They are unnecessarily complex most of the time. I haven't used mine since getting my PPL.

Instead I use a device called a wind protractor, which does everything I want, and which can easily be used in the cockpit. It won't do the various "extra" things that the whizz wheel can do (TAS, density altitude, mutliplication and division, etc....), but in every day flying in Europe in a light single that really doesn't matter very much.

The wind protractor was shown to me by the CFI of the club where I did my PPL, who taught me the whizz wheel thoroughly, then told me to use the protractor instead. Sound advice!

Whirlybird

21st Jan 2003, 07:49

I'm another person who can't answer this. If it's a local flight, then I know where I'm going. If there are navaids in the aircraft I'm flying (rare), I might use them, in conjunction with something else. If there's a GPS in the aircraft (common), ditto. If I need to make corrections for wind etc, I got to be so quick with the whizzwheel during the CPL ground exams, that it's quicker for me to use that than any of the so-called short cuts, though I can manage to calculate most of what's needed in flight for diversions etc. I like my whizzwheel. Sometimes it saves making my brain hurt. At other times it's unnecessary. I use it along with anything else that happens to be around.

And being primarily a helicopter pilot I bear in mind that I can always fly low and read the road signs. :D :D :D

Final 3 Greens

21st Jan 2003, 08:22

I always manually plan the flight using the whizz wheel, plotter and a chart.

Then I build the plan into a Garmin 92 GPS.

Then I use VORs (when available.)

The chart and flight plan are the master documents en route, with the GPS and VORs providing useful information.

If a diversion is required, I'd use the 1 in sixty rule for wx avoidance etc, but also back that up with the GPS and the VORs.

I find that doing a chart/plan first helps me orient myself to the flight before I set off (as well as allowing me to check danger areas etc.) If I have a good feel as to where left, right and the wind direction are, it does avoid those embarrassing 'faux pas' arising from erroneous data entry!

Genghis the Engineer

21st Jan 2003, 08:52

Depending upon route, nature of flight and aircraft type, all or any of the above, plus usually heavy reliance upon ground features given a choice.

G

Kingy

21st Jan 2003, 09:33

I still use the whiz wheel whenever I go anywhere far. My usual ritual involves met form 214 and 215 off the net, lines on the map and the wheel for wind drift, TAS etc.

It can all go to poo in the air though, as the Compass in the Cub tends to cavitate and spins like a top in the climb!

Kingy

DBChopper

21st Jan 2003, 11:05

I agree with Kingy and use the exact same method in my planning. I may sound sad, but I actually enjoy that wheel-spinning flight-planning process :eek:

In the R22, there is no option to take your hand off the cyclic to write or scribble on the chart (and even to hold it sometimes!) so I think Whirlybird will agree it tends to all be done mentally by necessity. If it's there in the machine I'm flying, I use the GPS as a back-up only. I found it helped when flying to Andrewsfield: a green field, surrounded by, um, lots of other green fields!

DBChopper :cool:

distaff_beancounter

21st Jan 2003, 11:35

As with most other posters, I use all of the options EXCEPT for the whiz wheel.

If I am going on a long trip, especially to somewhere I have not been before, then I do like to write out a full flight plan, so that I have estimated times, full consumption, ATC & VOR/NDB frequencies etc, to hand.
If its a short trip from my home airfield, then the old Mark 1 eyeball will suffice.

I definitely still own a CR*P 5 whiz wheel, if only I could remember which old flight bag I buried it in :D

Keef

21st Jan 2003, 18:02

Whizz-wheel? What's one of those? ;-)

I bought one for the PPL, and it's languished at the bottom of my flight bag ever since. I bought a cheapo electronic flight computer,and that was hopeless.

Then I bought the Jepp one, and have used that ever since. Great bit of kit.

Like the others said: I use all of the above depending where I'm going. Not having an IFR-certified GPS (coming soon!), inour group we all have little yoke-mount ones that are good backup - but no more than that.

If I'm local, I recognise the scenery. If I'm not, I prefer VOR etc if available. NDBs are not my favourite devices.

jayemm

22nd Jan 2003, 09:15

I plan with the Whizz-wheel.

Then, factor in VORs when it's going to help for those flights that's tracking through them.

Then I set up the GPS as a 'third aid'.

I find that the whizz-wheel is the best for simulating the flight ahead as part of planning.

Plus it gives me a kick to use something that doesn't depend on electricity.....sad I know.

KCDW

22nd Jan 2003, 16:24

Firstly, I too use most of the options, the intention was to understand the preferred / initial planning tool independent of route.

Have to say that I am pleasantly surprised with the % still using the whiz wheel – I’m not the lone nerd that I thought I was then.

Also surprised with the relative lack of use of electronic flight computers – surely they are faster? Keef, is the Jepp computer you use the Techstar one? Does it do everything a whiz wheel does?

Thanks all

Richard

Taildragger

22nd Jan 2003, 23:40

Ahhhhh Boys...the arrogance of yoof. The E6B whizz wheel, as you call em, have been around, and stood the test of time since Orville and Wilbur calculated ho long it would take to fly 110 yds (Metres in Europe) in a Wright Flyer.
I have used one for years, and it is still an essential part of my nav Bag, along with all the other gizmos that Snake Oil salesment have sold me over the years. The "wheel" in all that time has never run out of batteries, or given me a wrong answer, unless I have set the wheel to the wrong angle with the didgeridoo factor or set the cutting wheel to graze the turf too short, or rotated it the wrong way giving 120 Kt crosswinds, to which I shut out of my mind. AND you can use it with one hand.
But you tell the yoof of today and they dont believe you.
Josiah Arkwright. Air Pilit

T_richard

23rd Jan 2003, 01:46

Hello all, Please tel me ( so I'll know it when I see it in PPL school), what is a whiz wheel. In the maritime world we have a D=SxT kind of wheel and we have plotting tables for set/drift. Am I close?

Thanks

feet dry

23rd Jan 2003, 12:24

Yes Mr T you are correct....the two are more or less analogous.

The difference being on the wet stuff you must correct for both wind and tide, in the air you correct for wind only.

The whiz-wheel (or circular slide rule) is a handraulicly operated flight computer which only works if you practice with it, you perform you SDT calcs, fuel consumption calcs, wind drift calcs etc on it...the benefits are it does not need batteries, does not break when dropped and will continue to function even when the yanks reactivate the selective availability on the GPS when DS # 2 kicks off in a few weeks time.

T_richard

23rd Jan 2003, 14:40

Roger that Mr. Feet,

I like that kind of nav hardware, I always assume that my electronics are going to crash so I keep the charts and "whiz" wheel and Eldridge handy. Can you elaborate on SA retun if we go to DS II. Have you seen any official notice to Mariners or NOTAM regarding this?

feet dry

23rd Jan 2003, 14:49

I have not, however one cannot deny GPS played a major role in DS1 and a handheld garmin et al are now well within the reach of any self respecting republican guardsmen.

My point is....there are many ways of navigating and whilst technology in the main has released us from the tiresome burden of the process, it is perhaps wise to retain the ability to practice the art.

slim_slag

23rd Jan 2003, 15:13

T_richard,

You have to understand the Europeans. The Brits slag off GPS as being "American" but use it all the time (actually they like GPS and Americans a lot, its the politicians who scare them). It's part of their sense of humour.

The French on the other hand hate the Yanks, and don't like them being in control of such a wonderful tool like GPS, which the Americans have provided free of charge to the world. The French want the rest of Europe to pay for Galileo, which will be controlled from a building in France (so giving the French control). The good Europeans will also find a way to charge users of Galileo, and it will probably be quite expensive, like the premium rate phone calls (0870) you have to use when you want to call somebody up and buy something.

As Tony is desparate to remain friends with EVERYBODY in the world, he will go along with the French plan at the expense of his electorate, just so he is seen to be a good European.

:D :D

No evidence that dubya will turn off SA, but even if he did, he will keep it over the US because the only thing he cares about is re-election (and avenging the attempt on daddy's life) and pilots in the US are a very powerful lobby :)

As for whizz wheels, you will need to show a reasonable proficiency in their use when flight planning for your private. Most people then forget about them, until they have to show reasonable proficiency for another annoying test.

What I do is go to duats to get the weather and NOTAMS. Duats is a nifty (and FREE, so American :) ) tool which lets you store aircraft profiles and has a database of airports/intersections/VORs etc. You put in your origin and destination, and it works out your route/headings/times etc, using winds aloft if known. Duats then gets the weather/NOTAMS for your route. This is VERY important.

On the very detailed flight planner page, you get total time and fuel burn. If that is within my comfort zone for the amount of fuel in the plane, I file the plan with the FAA, then print it out. The paper plan then goes in my bag only to be brought out if some FAA inspector asks me to demonstrate I have prepared for the flight. I then fly the route visually, maybe checking my location using VORS if I have a receiver in the plane, but if I really want to know where I am (and that means I have failed as I have got lost), I use my trusty hand held GPS.

If the fuel burn as planned by duats is too close to what I am setting off with, I just go to airnav.com, find where fuel is cheap on my route, reenter into duats flight plan calculator, and print out new flight plans which go in the bottom of the bag in case somebody asks to see it. It generally goes in the same place as my whizz wheel, which only comes out when I am cleaning the bag of flight plans which went in at some stage, never to be seen again.

So if I am VFR, and as all I really care about ahead of time is weather and fuel because messing either one of those up is what will kill me, the above procedure works well. Always know how much fuel you have on board, what the weather is, and where the nearest airport is. No need to use a whizz wheel for that.

If the weather requires IFR, total different ball game, but still no real need for whizz wheel. :) If ATC makes the rare annoying request for time to next fix, you can work that out on paper or in your head :D

feet dry

23rd Jan 2003, 15:58

ss

I cannot decide if your mention of anti US/GPS comment was derived from my post regarding the use of GPS (in particular or technology in general) when it comes to navigating. I am neither anti US or anti GPS. Indeed, I agree with your view that technology has made many of the more mundane parts of flying rather less so, however you cannot deny that a knowledge of the principles which the technology employs is important.

The ability to navigate, like any skill, will become rusty if not used regularly and we in the private flying community have no excuse to not practice the art. We are not constrained by the commercial considerations of our professional bretheren (though I suspect most commercial pilots would take pride in the fact they could use a circular slide rule if they had to).

As my UAS instructor taught me.....if you don't do it properly, don't do it at all.

KCDW

23rd Jan 2003, 16:09

I do a lot of my flying in New Jersey, and it seems you can’t move for VORs in the NE. Look at a sectional and many of the VORs overlap almost to a point of being unreadable. I never see use of the whiz wheel in the clubhouse, and during my biennial flight review, I was never quizzed once on VFR navigation. I was asked to find my way home from the training area using a VOR though.

I guess if this forum had a larger US constituence, the whiz wheel v VOR/GPS %s would be easily reversed.

slim_slag

23rd Jan 2003, 16:58

KCDW,

All that 3-5 mile visibility in haze round your neck of the woods causes a lot of problems for VFR pilots from the west where we are used to 120 miles visibility! Lots of complex airspace too, that wasn't around when people were using whiz-wheels because the transistor hadn't been invented. It's a different world nowadays, moving map GPS is a very useful tool, maybe becoming required around NJ. I don't think the FAA would be too impressed if your excuse for busting JFK class B was that you only used a whiz-wheel because that's the only real way to navigate.

feet dry,

I cannot decide for myself either :) Probably not.

What do you need a whiz-wheel for when you are flying by pilotage, you know you have enough fuel, and the weather is OK? Sounds like unnecessary technology to me :) Winds aloft never do what the forecasters tell them to. Draw a line on a map, point the plane at something on the horizon, and fly towards it. I guess I fly for fun nowadays and am anal when it comes to fuel, I'll even fill the tanks up if I have only flown an hour for a hamburger. Not only does that make me feel a lot happier, it gives some money to the airport operator who is providing a service.

The two planes I fly most don't even have a VOR receiver. If I'm bumbling along looking out of the window and if see something I like, I wander over to take a look. I always know where I am on the chart, and when I'm finished it doesn't require a whizwheel to head off in the general direction of my destination. I have plenty of fuel and the weather is good. What does a whiz wheel do for me?

T_richard

23rd Jan 2003, 17:18

Ss Thank you for the excellent outline of real VFR navigation. Sound alot like the way I navigate on my sloop. I have the charts ou, but I steer by landmarks and check my Northstar GPS chartplotter with differential to detemine SOG so I know how long til I pick up a mooring hawser. The filing of flightplans stuff is another matter I will have to get used to. US Coast Guard usually leaves sailboaters alone, typically we are better mariners the some 23 y/o kid from the Bronx. Powerboaters CAN be (not ARE) another story.

As for the UK vs USA battle, I've been reading PPRUNE long enough to know that some people will beat the US withany stick they can find no matter how weak or old it is. We try to do everything right, often fail but once and awhile wecome up with something useful like GPS and we're happy to give it away. We fly the skies of the world too.

The French are still mad cuz they played both sides against the middle in WWII.:rolleyes:

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me

Tinstaafl

23rd Jan 2003, 18:51

I use my Jep. CR5 whiz wheel all the time. Lots of things can be calculated faster using it than electronic gizmos.

It weighs very, very little & fits in my pocket without being noticeable.

Batteries for it are quite cheap too... :p

slim_slag

23rd Jan 2003, 21:30

t_richard,

Be careful. If you go into your private checkride with the 'slim_slag method of flight planning' you will be thrown out on your ear and told to come back when you have fixed your smartass atttude. You have to demonstrate you know how to use the whiz wheel, and that is a good thing. You will find it easy.

The reason I get into these threads, basically asking "why" and putting another perspective is because of comments like this:

As my UAS instructor taught me.....if you don't do it properly, don't do it at all.
Now I have no problem with people who use the whiz wheel, but what business does some UAS instructor have telling people in totally different environments whats proper? Little old me can have a bad morning at the computer, and there is nothing better than a couple of hours flying in the mountains at 500ft. I can check the weather, file a flight plan, drive to the airport, and be taxying to the run up area, heading off to nowhere in particular, within thirty or so minutes. All I take is a chart and a headset. I don't need to take a whiz wheel, am I not doing things properly?

Maybe Mr UAS instructor (who I am sure is quite competent) wants to make a big deal of his monthly personal flight in the over controlled airspace of SE England, but I don't. Good luck to him, and good luck to all pilots in the western US who have the freedom of the vast open skies at their disposal, with or without a whiz wheel.

There are plenty of ways to skin a cat. Just make sure you fly safe.

:D :D :D

And as for flight plans, as a student you have to learn to file flight plans over the phone talking with a human. They are an incredible resource, their weather briefings are the best. I don't file over the phone, I use the same computer when I get the weather and NOTAMS.

Guess what, sometimes I take off and don't even activate the flight plan. I bet a few UAS chaps will consider that irresponsible in the extreme, that is so naughty of me! Yet I still fly safely.

Cheers

feet dry

24th Jan 2003, 08:00

Slim

I think we shall just agree to differ...the original post asked who still used a whiz wheel and I gave my opinion. I am not in the business of offering opinions on the ability of other pilots, nor their attitude to what constitutes a proper and safe approach to flying.

I just do things differently to you.....on a personal note I watched two friends die in an accident directly connected with a lack of preparation before setting off for a jaunt, it is tragedies like this which perhaps shape my view.

Incidentally, a UAS is a University Air Squadron (or Royal Airforce Volunteer Reserve) whose instructors are all Royal Air Force pilots. My instructor, the Squadron BOSS had over 30 years flight experience, in more types than most people have hours. Flying instruments with him was an exercise in precision the like of which I have not encountered in the civilian world. If after 30 years he approached a flight the same way every time, I don't see why I should not aspire to do the same.

FD

englishal

24th Jan 2003, 08:02

Nah, I don't use the Whizz Wheel anymore if I can help it, far too complicated. I bought a second hand Electronic Flight computer and found that to be crap, so I wrote a nifty flight computer program for my Casio Cassiopeia which makes life very easy. If that fails I return to 'mental Arithmetic'...something we used to learn in school, in the days they were still allowed to mark your homework with RED PEN [shock horror]:D

Anyway, a bit of the mental stuff combined with GS (GPS / DME)along with the duats / Meto printouts of windspeed or GPS derrived windspeed works pretty well.

Cheers
EA:)

juswonnafly

24th Jan 2003, 15:06

I just use a line on the map, my thumb, max drift clock code, and a wristwatch................plan a X/C in 10 mins :D

slim_slag

24th Jan 2003, 16:52

feet,

I went to see UAS when I was at London Uni. They were interested, but it wasn't my cup of tea, my loss I am sure :)

Fly safe

Slag

Flyin'Dutch'

26th Jan 2003, 08:09

Ahum

Dont even have one.

Does that count?

Didnt need to do the exams for which one was needed.

Tried one for fun but decided that I didnt need one.

FD

Chocks Wahay

28th Jan 2003, 12:54

Have got a whizwheel ... somewhere. Might remember how to use it on a good day.

a. Local - use a map, look out the window

b. Trips - plan using Navbox Proplan on the PC. Upload route to cheapo handheld non-aviation GPS. Draw lines on map, work out VOR crosscuts in advance. In the air use the GPS to show me where to go. Being a cheapie it has no moving map or airspace, just a line for the course and dots for large towns, so I am forced (happily) to use map / window / VOR methods of checking. Also means I don't get caught out when the GPS gives up (once) or batteries go flat (not yet).

Works for me.

DOC.400

31st Jan 2003, 18:49

Tend to use navaids. Had a current IMC for 6 years until FM immunity came in and the £7.5K upgrade incl. Garmin 430 beyond our group at the mo. But do a DR flight one or two times a year just to remind me!

Just to show the doubters how easy it is, I showed my nine year old how to plot the wind down method and planned a short flight White Waltham-Kemble via CPT, Didcot power station (his choice) and the white horse nr. Swindon.

I gave him the wind speed and direction, (065/15 at 2000' that day, if I remember) and also worked out the TAS for him, he did the rest! Nice high pressure day so had to SLOW the plane down to the 130 IAS we planned on (was cruising at 138) and we were 15 seconds early, bang on the nose on each waypoint -very satisfying for both of us!

BTW, the food and the service (30-40 min delay that we were not pre-warned about) at Kemble's new restaurant was cr*p. And I told 'em so -got my money back.......

DOC

Flyin'Dutch'

31st Jan 2003, 19:39

Hi Doc

Cant complain too much at that then if you got your money back!

We went 3 weeks ago and while we had to wait a bit (it was a busy sunday lunchtime); the food was good and the ambiance excellent.

Mind you had excellent company as well.

I hope they do well with their resto as it is definitely a notch up from the average greasy spoon and a place where you can happily take your family (and even let them use the toilets!)

FD

S-Works

31st Aug 2004, 11:41

I have a CRP3 and CRP5 and frankly I know what the CRP stands for CR*P. Why anyone in this day and age thinks it is clever to use a slide rule is totally beyond me.

What a load of tosh about batteries, if my CX2 ran out of batteries (2 years old and still on the originals) I would put a new set in. Anyone who claims they can fly an aircraft safely and operate a whizz wheel is a liar.

Flight planning is done on the ground not in the air and I trust the output from my CX2 far more than I trust my ability to operate the CR*P wheel.

Doing the JAA IR has made me realise just how arcane the JAA vision of the flying world is. Why do I need to be able to do trigonometry and formulae to fly an airplane in IMC? Managed to do pretty well on the FAA system without damage to myself or others.

The whizz wheel should be thrown in the bin and the flying world should come into the 21st century.

Penguina

31st Aug 2004, 13:13

All of the above except the electronic flight computer. I like my whizzwheel: it's quicker than doing rough calculations for drift I find.

Another St Ivian

31st Aug 2004, 16:52

Well you're not throwing mine, bose-x!
While I fully understand the benefits and ease of using electronic flight planning tools I prefer to take out my whizz wheel and work out what I need to know. I find it far less hassle than pulling out a calculator or what not. Considering I am one of the supposed lazy yoof' of today, that's saying allot!
Admittedly I often just use Max Drift, proportional ETA correction and all that, but the few times I do compute something, I use the whizz wheel.

ASI

IO540

31st Aug 2004, 17:48

The circular slide rule does two things

- wind calculations (basically triangle trig)

For these, it is no more accurate than the rule of thumb of max drift being say 1/3 of the wind, because Form 214 data isn't accurate enough to start with.

- multiplication and division (with commonly used conversion ratios marked on the scale)

For these, it's a great way to make a mistake.

That's why it should be scrapped. It serves no real world purpose.

White Bear

31st Aug 2004, 18:59

I couldn't agree more Slim_slag.
Good idea to teach the basics in navigation to students, but we should also acknowledge that things have moved along since then.
I grew up in the U.K , and there is, among a 'certain' group, a mind set that says the more difficult, the more traditional the better. Only the gifted armature (and of course that includes them) is truly admired in the U.K. Professionalism is viewed in the same manner as 'tradesman' are, and anything that lowers 'standards' is looked down upon, no matter how much more sense it makes. I believe these same people think the best cars made in the world were made by W O Bentley in 1928,29,30 when that marques won consecutive victories at Le Mans. Wonderful victories they were, but if those 'certain' people had their way, car drivers, as well as pilots, would still find levers to adjust the fuel mixture, and the spark advance of their magnetos on the steering wheel, the hand brake would still be found outside attached to the running boards, and of course only a fool would need more than rod operated rear wheel brakes. Unfortunately this 'group' is still very influential in the UK, and it's pretty obvious which group gained control of what.

I'll bet much of what has been said about GPS was used to decry VOR/DME when that technology was new. Slide rules were very clever, in their day. No one in their right mind would suggest today that the E6B is superior to a modern flight computer as a navigation tool. It's akin to using a steam engine instead of a jet, fine if all you want to do is to keep the 'tradition' alive, but foolhardy to risk your and others lives upon in this day and age. Your much more likely to suffer an engine failure, given the 1930's technology we are forced to fly with, than have your GPS unit fail. (If the batteries fail, then you failed, not the unit. If you fly regularly, use the aircrafts system to power your GPS).

Why Oh Why do we do this to ourselves. One smart G.A. pilot said on this forum long ago. "Anyone who flies without the best technology available that he/she can afford to help them fly safe, is a fool"
Sorry, pet peeve.
White Bear.

Polly Gnome

31st Aug 2004, 20:56

I still use my whizz wheel on the ground because
- it's very fast (honestly)
- you can SEE what you are doing
- you can double check if you have made an error in input

In the air I double check with VORs, NDBs, etc.

I knew an Airbus training captain (also a fast jet pilot) who was really pleased with the 'mini whizz wheel' he had just bought.

Cusco

31st Aug 2004, 21:08

Nah, haven't used it for ten years: I use an electronic flight calculator (fairly basic asa model) both on ground and (rarely) inthe air: I keep a set of spare batteries in my flight bag.

But with multiple systems redundancy in the form of GPS x 2 I can't recall last time I used flight computer in the air.

Whizzy wheel is a charming anachronisn akin to the slide rule and log tables (remember them?)

About time the CAA dumped the whizzyy wheel: The Americans have allowed certain flight computers into exams for years.

:8

Halfbaked_Boy

31st Aug 2004, 21:24

Cusco, the way I see it:

Piper Arrow is to Piper Cub, as

Electronic flight computer is to Whizzwheel...

In other words, we should get 'hands on' once in a while and become more like our feathered counterparts :)

Charlie Zulu

31st Aug 2004, 21:31

I was using a CRP-1 for years.

Then I was going to upgrade myself to an electronic version but ATPL exams got in the way so had to "upgrade" to a CRP-5 version.

Didn't realise how much can be done with the CRP-5, but I wouldn't be without my calculator for some of the calculations (such as density altitude calculations etc).

Wouldn't be without my trusty CRP-5 at the moment...

... unless the CAA decide to give into the requirement and allow electronic versions instead. If they do that after my last exam, well I'm not going to be a happy bunny!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

Big Pistons Forever

1st Sep 2004, 00:16

I used to be pretty good with the old E6B. I was particularly proud of fiquring the wind triangle backwards so I could provide winds aloft with my PIREPS. Then all the airplanes I flew got fitted with GPS and all the flight planning rooms got computer flight planning software so I have not touched it in years. It is still in my flight bag though, its rigid plastic case makes a nice divider ....and for the day when all the electrons go on strike :ok:

The Trolls' Troll

1st Sep 2004, 01:17

Like everyone else on this thread, after getting the PPL, I developed my own methods of navigation.
When computers came along, in our business(work not flying) we could hardly wait. The stuff we were going to be able to do in the twinkling of an eye. They did the job quite well and a few extra things as well, but only if you were standing there and nursing them along. The problem with these things is that you can’t repair them yourself when they go wrong. You’re not even allowed to try. The innards are all hidden behind plastic or aluminium casings. Off it goes to a specialised repair shop or factory.
Whenever a new bit of electronic equipment arrives, I, after my experiences of the last 20 yrs, am filled with foreboding. It might last 6mths or ten years, you just don’t know.
So what do you want? Reliable simplicity that you can repair yourself, or a device that performs many functions (many of which you don’t want or will ever use) with blinding speed (unnecessary) and accuracy (again unnecessary for aircraft navigation).
Do we want everything done for us as pilots? 3-d terrain mapping is on the way. At this rate there will hardly be anything to do. And early examples of pilot-less aircraft are pointing the way forward. Even in the day of the automobile people still ride horses. An incredibly arduous way of getting from A to B but they enjoy it.
Perhaps in the not too distant future piloting light planes will be seen as a legacy of the past and the use of electronic aids will be frowned on as being incompatible with the spirit of the age. This happens already where GPS is banned in navigation competitions and is still not permitted in PPL training.
The whiz wheel is a clever bit of kit, but it is weak when it comes to use in the air, wind vectors groundspeed and headings are not easy to read off the small scale, and manipulate. So I designed some kit to overcome that difficulty. To be found at Navok.co.uk or click on the www at the top of this post. This may be of interest to those, like me, who are less than enchanted at the great no-brainer, non-repairable electronic future that lies ahead.
Ps the CX2 sounds better than average if still going after 2yrs, but if battery powered, that goes against my rules. At one time, I couldn’t go anywhere without buying batteries for the GPS. There were batteries everywhere, just in case. No more! Enough !

Flyin'Dutch'

1st Sep 2004, 02:14

The good thing about aviation is that it can give a fill for every nut's niche.

FD

Tinstaafl

1st Sep 2004, 02:36

AWL, from a quick peruse of your site, your method seems very similar to how a Jepp CR type whiz wheel works** - but without the many additional functions.

My CR5 is nearly always with me when I fly *and* I have slide rule on my watch. A whiz wheel has lots of functions useful in flight as well as on the ground that are quicker to do than electronically eg (non aviation, but illustrates the point) my watch is a damn sight quicker to use when I'm travelling & want a ready reckoner for currency conversion. I set the local exchange rate & can directly read the equivalent currency around the dial. A **LOT** quicker & easier than having to carry an extra calculator.

In flight I still have use for my CR that are difficult or impossible to do with an electronic version.

**Further perusal: I've changed my mind. It's a form of E6B ie slide type whiz wheel.