Fastest Jet at Low Level?

[jalbert]

So what was the fastest aircraft (IAS) flat out at low level ie. 500 feet agl or so?
Some numbers I've been given over the years by type qualified pilots-Phanthom 750 kts,F3 860kts, Buccaneer 560kts .
Any others especially the more modern types?I've heard the F105 (OK- hardly modern)could do 1000 kts.That can't be right, can it?
Anyone actually achieved these speeds?
Thanks.

[BlueWolf]

Saab JA 37 Viggen, 800 kts at 500' - claimed, anyway. Don't know how often it may have done that though.

[Jackonicko]

Well the record was taken by Red Baron, an F-104 'Bitsa' built from recovered airframes and parts by a US civilian. I understand that BAE once looked hard at sending an F3 to the low, low, low desert secure in the knowledge that the aircraft could easily exceed this record, but could not justify the costs. I believe that the Tornado (without LRMTS, without the intake mod, etc., so probably an F3) is the fastest low level jet in service.

[zalt]

In dry power I assume nothing is faster than the Bucc.

[mr hanky]

If the Bucc was only good for 560 then there'd be plenty of things faster than it in dry power.

[TyroPicard]

Surely the F-105?
Heard a story from a USAF pilot in the 70's who flew them in Vietnam.. after dropping his bombload he headed South in the weeds and reached 1000 kts .. only to be overtaken by another 105 !!!

Cheers, TP

[Cougar]

Can't the Pig do more than 1000 kts low level? (thats F111 for you non-colonial types :D )

[AllTrimDoubt]

Strictly speaking....

THRUST SSR (Others might have been faster, but none lower!)

QED!

[BEagle]

Presumably you mean Thrust SSC?

'Dead Dog' could have used a great put down line when asked about what it felt like to go back to the Tornado B Mk 3 after breaking the LSR..... "Huh. Call this a fighter - I've driven faster cars......."

The whole Thrust SSC story was probably the last time Britain did something Great. With a fair bit of help from lots of private individuals and sponsors who made donations. But DD, Richard, the car and the team came back to a mostly indifferent media (except Sky News, whose live bulletins from the Black Rock Desert were excellent) and were quickly forgotten by the Great Unwashed. What a shame.

[AllTrimDoubt]

Oops! SSC it is then! Thanks!

[tony draper]

Indeed it was the sort of achievment knightoods were handed out for one time.
Now you have to be a football manager or a poxy luuvie actor.

[Ghostflyer]

875kts in an F-3 but the EF-111 (Does that make it an electric pig?) that I was chasing had opening Vc!

As slack bladder would say b*gger! ;)

[rivetjoint]

I can't find anything on the web that matches or beats that F3 speed.

[Human Factor]

Heard a tale that the test pilots couldn't get the F.3 to go beyond 810kts, despite their best efforts. Was then discovered that the ASI on the HUD wasn't calibrated beyond that. Don't know if it's true .....

[tu chan go]

I have to defend the good old Bucc.

I had one at 617kts once at 100ft. It was going sideways and bucking about a bit (rudder blanking and the shock wave playing on the tailplane!).

I understand that the F-111 and the flanker are no sluggards at low level.

[Ghostflyer]

Bananas Bananas, I don't know of any F3 mate that hasn't gone supersonic on the deck. I saw several guys practicing out-running missiles in 1990. They were well supersonic with their own shadows nearly touching the jet. Only teasing.....

I would have thought that the big old proper jets without bypass must have been able to haul the mail. What about the 104, that had no wing, was pointy and was rated at 1.2 or so on the deck.

There is no doubt that the F-111 knocked spots off anything that I saw. The Flanker is awesome at medium altitude not sure what it is really like on the deck, a bit square at the front end.

But what about big jets? The B1 does supersonic low-level pretty well. An F3s limiting speed as per RAF regs is 750kts, the Lancer runs to about 800 (1.2) so who knows what the real limit is. Plus, an F-3 in full blower throws all the fuel (and occasionally engines) over the side in a heart beat. A B-1 could keep going forever.


:confused:

[Chris Kebab]

My money would be on the F-111. Going back a few years now but the Upper Heyford jets were not so pokey (E models?) but the Lakenheath jets (Fs?) left a lightweight F-4 well behind.

Its quite entertaining seeing an oil rig going supersonic past your wingtip with an F-111 accerating away in front of you!

[mvand003]

Uncle Sam's B-1B goes very very fast at very low level and for a very long time, plenty of go-go juice in the big bomber with internal fuel bladders in one of the bays
believe nothing (!) can catch it on the deck at max dash, even reaction time for manpads, Hawk or Patriot virtually nil when using the terrain contours correctly
my suggestion, a sharply coordinated squadron strenght lowlevel flyby downtown Bagdad at the early hours before opening the ground assault ;)

also, wan't the now Museum piece TR-1 orso a mach 2 thing at the deck?

[rivetjoint]

If the B-1B does M1.2 wonder what the B-1A would have done without all that inlet ducting.

[really not]

May be pulling this one out of the woodwork - but isn't there the (urban myth) story of the TSR2 going supersonic throught the lake district on trials forcing the lightning trail a/c to bang up out of the turbulence?

[Magic Mushroom]

Chaps,
I understand that the MIG-23 has a fairly respectable turn of speed on the deck.
Additionally, whilst the B-1B was a useful noise generator option to the dropping of live ordanace over Afghanistan, certainly at medium level it's not a patch on the Mirage IV.
Nevertheless, I suspect that for dash, the F-111 would still take some beating today.
Regards
M2

[kmagyoyo]

The F-111C v 'Electric Flick Knife' no contest.

Not only can the Pig do M1.2 on the deck WITH stuff hanging off the wing, it can do it for more than one nano-fart before having to Bingo home at flight level moon.

[timzsta]

Anyone seen that photo of two German F-4's that hangs in the corridor at the ACMI at RAF Waddington. The one where they are flying about 50ft above a river with big conifer trees either side of them. Probably not going as fast as a 111, but its bloody impressive.

Being an ex Fighter Controller I have been lucky enough to see an F3 go supersonice across the Bristol Channel during an exerise, radar showed him down at about 500 - 1000 ft. He was chasing down and Etendard, one won easily!

[tony draper]

I have that on me hard disc Timzsta, don't recall where I got it from now though, plus a couple of others of F4 cuttin the grass, one of them looks so impossible I suspect a paint shop job though.
Ah sorry, should have looked at it again before I posted, this is a single F4 flying up a river well below the treetops,I can't tell who it belongs to though.

[Danza]

Drapes - could you e-mail me the pic if you've got a few minutes to spare?

Getting back on subject, well sort of, although I guess it doesn't count as it's not on squadron service yet, but looking at the stats the Eurofighter Typhoon shoud smash lots of record :) Mach 2.0 capable :)

[rivetjoint]

Mach 2 capable? Shurely someone in the Ministry will spot that soon, decide that isn't really needed anymore and replace the jets with a prop on the nose. Should save them about £10.50. :D

[tony draper]

Certainly Timzsta, send me yer email addy at

[email protected]

Don't think the pprune email allows the attachment of stuff.

[RPH]

May not have been the fastest but the stripped down Hunters at Valley in the early 70s were certainly capable. I remember seeing just under 600kts during one of the low level missions. As I said, certainly not the quickest but, as a 20 year old in his first single seat, definetly a memory that is still fresh. As an old mentor once told me "No cats, rats, dogs, frogs or 2seat fighter pilots allowed" Cheers all.

[freddoir]

Surely the fastest jet at any level is an F3 obeying DAPS. I have never seen anything pump or abort faster than an F3. O am I being cynical?:)

[RRAAMJET]

Spoke to one of our 'Nam vets today ref F-105: more than 800 by a substantial margin, whilst dodging a bit, but not really sure 'cos he was too scared and the ASI scale got compacted at the upper end if the pitot probes hadn't been shot off as far as he could recall.
He seemed to recall that the B-58 Hustler was no slouch, either. The knackered old T-38 will reach its Vne of 710, still accelerating (limited by rear canopy lift). Not much drag there, either.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Someone mentioned Eurofighter...I flew the Simulator at Asian Aerospace 2002. M1.2 @ < 50'...and it didn't seem ta wanna go faster:D

I can't remember the IAS...When asked how accurately the Sim represented the aircraft the TP allowed as how he practiced in that Sim for his Farnborough Demos.

This Airline Pilot certainly wishes he was 20 years younger:D

Chuck.

[John Eacott]

Don't know how fast they were, but the Buccaneer low passes always left quite an impression:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/gallery/buccaneer/Bucc_low_pass_from_goofers.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/gallery/buccaneer/Bucc_multi_ship_low_run_in_at_Eagle.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/gallery/buccaneer/Bucc_low_pass_pull_up_from_goofers.jpg

[escapee]

Looking at those pics of Bucs reminds me of when I was at Ice Station Kilo; on there last day of their service the Bucs from Lossie did a simulated airfield attack at Kinloss. F**k Me! V low V fast V impressive!

[Plastic Penguin]

Buccs were good for low over Oggsplosh... put them in OLF overland and see wot they were like................ actually dont know cos I was on their side running away from the F3 hairdressers.:)


Back to original thread ............ M1.1 at 100 in Goose in the flickknife ( wasn't gonna try star wars valley either).... definately not the fastest thing on the planet but it felt like it when I was 22 years old...... wish I could swap it for my Boeing now.

[dudly]

I never flew the F-111, but in talking with some of the crews, the later models would keep accelerating until they melted. I think they had a light that came on that said "hot" or "slow down" or something to that affect. I flew the F-105 and had it up to 825 to 850 (memory is slipping) which was the limit as far as the book said, I am sure it has seen faster. I was going downhill in full burner, not level.

While based in Europe back in the very early 1970's, I was driving an F4E and spotted an F-111 (don't know which model it was). We were down around 500 feet or so. I pulled up on its wing and he began to bump it up. I thought I was hanging in fairly well when he bumped it up again. I lit the burners and hung in there, and then he lit the burners and just became a dot disappearing on the horizon.

[STANDTO]

mentioned it before, but Buccs virtually belly sliding up the runway at St Ath on a balmy summers evening was a sight to behold

[Chimbu chuckles]

dudly I used to fly F28s with two ex RAAF Wing Commanders, both of whom had flown F111s and at least one of whom had been involved in their intro into RAAF service, having been on Mirage 111 and CAC27 (F86 with cannon and bigger engine) before that. Not sure whether he flew the F4s during the interim, probably did.

They both still fly a few hours a year active reserve...or what passes for it in the RAAF.

Lindsay had always been fast jet/fighter streem while the other had been a trashy at one stage and I think both, but certainly Lindsay, initially looked down their noses at 'this bomber'.

I think it's fair to say that attitudes changed once they started flying 'the bomber' and both definately mentioned that max speed was only limited by skin temperature.

From what they told me the 'Pig' was, in earlier RAAF days considered a Fighter Bomber and as such they trained in both disciplines. Apparently max effort climbs from ground level with a light internal fuel load, a few 2 AIM9s/Sparrows/or whatever was the fit and cannon were quite a ride:D I don't remember for certain but exceeding Mach 1 in a very steep climb at some mind numbing ROC seemed to be the gist of it. Certainly one of Australia finest gave one of your finest a nasty surprise at Red Flag a few years ago when he splashed an F16 with a missile shot...I think the F16 pilots reaction was along the lines of..."It's got WHAT...but it's a Bomber":D Unfortunately that F111 driver lost his life maintaining the edge required of you guys.

I have flown a couple of Fighter Sims (the real ones not FS2000) and this ex Bush pilot/now airline takes his hat off to all you fellas...and sometimes wishes he'd pushed harder at the RAAF recruiter when he was 19:( :D

And to all the RAAF / RAF / USAF guys who may find themselves in harms way soon all my very best wishes....the politics may suck but that's not your worry!

Chuck.

[L J R]

F111C & F111F M1.2 on the deck [by the book] BUT...... i'll say no more.

The skin temp issue is more pertinent at altitude at which they want to accelerate smoothly as you pass M 2.2

Vaark DEFINATELY faster than Tonka in all respects. [wiff or wifout underslung stuff]

[Studly]

What a load of old faided memories we have.
The F3 is rarely seen airborne and may be on it's day out of the shed the fastest. (It can climb to the moon as a pig writer states!)
The F111 not bad, but 1.2 all day?
The B1 high trans-sonic only.
Eurofighter with downrated in service engines ..
So where are we?
Have a look in Janes outright records you'll all be surprised!

[Steve Davies]

The F-15C can do M1.2 on the deck whilst clean. That ain't all that bad for a medium altitude design:ok:

[scarab]

I have chased-down and overtaken B-1B's and F-111s (the marque that the Australians fly) in a clean F3 equipped with Lau-7a / stub pylons and a single 9-L acqui. All protagonists were in full blower and had been for several minutes. I wouldn't like to guess what the results would have been from a standing start as we did have the advantage of a high-to-low conversion, whereas the muds had started low and stayed low. Regarding the issue of stamina . . . on all occasions I was bingo / RTB very soon afterwards but I'm sure both the Bone and the Pig could have carried on at that speed for some time. . .if they hadn't been shot! Regarding stores and fit - irrelevent. For real, I would have jettisoned as required to chase down and kill something as valuable as a B1-B or a Blackjack. With regard to max IAS, I must confess that I never looked at the speed whilst in the vinegar strokes of these engagements - poor airmanship and a lack of capacity, I guess! However, if I had ever exceeded the release to service, I would have been disappointed with anything less than 870 kts, where there be dragons, VIB and REV captions. I have heard several independent stories of 911 kts which would support the (admittedley dubious) story that the F3 HUD won't read faster than 911 because the software designer drove a Porsche. All such stories tend to emanate from junior pilots sent to Warton to collect brand new jets (that weren't even fitted with pylons) during the aircraft's introduction to service. One such pilot (who now flies 747s for BA) told how he'd been carpetted because the jet he'd thrashed on the way home had had the grey paint on its wing and fin leading edges stripped back to the yellow primer.
One last morsel - don't forget other aircraft types. I remember once trying to chase down a small ball of fuzz in the Noth Sea ACMI and on this occasion, I did look at the HUD. I was doing M1.3 at about 4000feet, in a steady descent. The small ball of fuzz, which turned out to be an F-15E, managed to hold me off until the Eastern boundary of the range. However, we would have had him, I tell you! Fastest jet in the world at low level?

Absolutely, undeniably the Tornado FMk3.

;)

[Radar Muppet]

Same, same. I did look at the IAS - 875ish and a good kill! Whilst we can only do it once a trip if there ain't a friendly 10 or Trimotor around, the F3 is most definitely one of, if not the, slipperiest around.

[kmagyoyo]

Good work Flick knife mates; ramp from med level in full blower and then claim your the fastest low level machine....one word for you chaps and it rhymes with 'frolics' (and since when exactly was 4000' low level??? ).

Studly, I cant be ar$ed getting a copy of Janes out so can you just put us out of our misery :)

Until then, I reaffirm the mighty F-111 as the fastest low 'not having cheated and ramped from the charlie block' level machine!! :O

[Wings Of Fury]

Jane's Encyclopedia of Aviation:

The MiG 25 (Foxbat-B), Max level speed with missiles: Mach 3.2
F-15 Eagle Max level speed: Mach 2.5

Which one would go faster at low level?

I know which one would break down first!

[McDuff]

I flew the F16C (Block 30) with GE F110 engine. That was about 29k of thrust on a 26k machine. It was cleared to over 800 and M2. The highest IAS I saw was 730kts at 13k over the Gulf of Mexico, running from an AIM7. It was starting to get noisy but there was still plenty of acceleration despite the c/l tank and wingtip missiles.

Most fun? That was letting an F14A take me ballistic (remember Goose in Top Gun, well they taught them that bs) and getting a missile solution on the way up, and a tracking guns solution on the way down...

Oh, perhaps the run to Harp Lake, Canada, at about 600 KIAS was as much fun.

Halcyon Days...

[L J R]

lets re phrase it then:

The fastest low level level aircraft.

Rotate, gear up flaps up wings back remain at 250' or lower or thereabouts...
and run.....

If the terrain requires a higher pressure altitude; eg: high planes of Nth America then you will get M1.4 [a function of temp for those interested in Supersonic aerody] . This will get 800-900 KTAS {& G/S}. But I thought the scenario was LEVEL at SEA LEVEL. [or slightly above it]


Unfortunately, sometimes we have to adhere to some peacetime rules while evading.

[luke77]

I did well over 800kts in an F3 LLOL in the good old days of SS O`land allowed in Alaska..... running away from an F15! I remember it being very noisy!!

F111 gets my vote

[scroggs]

I believe that civvy F104 was flown by Darrell Greenamayer (sp?) and holds the world low-level speed record at just over 1000 mph, say 870kts or about M1.3. It was, of course, specially prepared for the flight, though I don't doubt that a standard F104 could make 750 easily enough. Wonder what an F3 with the same TLC would make??