View Full Version : tap 321

15th Jan 2003, 08:58
Does anyone know the origin of this?


15th Jan 2003, 10:58
As it says on the video, it was taken by a spotter close to the threshold of rwy 17. It was a gusty wind day and this was the 2nd or 3rd attempt to land. Then the crew elected to divert to Faro.
It was told to me by one member of the crew that the first attempt was the scariest...

ATC Watcher
15th Jan 2003, 18:44
Yes I would not have liked to be in the cockpit of that one. Interestingly enough it seems , from the sound track that the actual TOGA power came rather late in the chain, could it be that the engines were on idle first ?
Remembers all too well the Habsheim video...
Any 320 specialist to comment ?

15th Jan 2003, 19:40
I have seen cross wind approaches in my day but attempting this looks like a 50kt cross wind. Look at the crab angle.....what where they trying to do ? Land between the gusts?

15th Jan 2003, 20:41
Further comments on this video clip here:


Also some instructions for those having difficulty getting this to run.

Anti Skid On
16th Jan 2003, 00:58
Makes me proud of my cross wind landings, although I wouldn't attempt anything in that hoolie! (strictly a VFR man!)

A hypothetical onr though - how close does the port side main gear come to making contact with the floor - if it did would it automatically deploy the speed brakes - and that would make a big mess!) - also, would like to hear the CVR transcript.

16th Jan 2003, 03:26
It looks to me that the roll and pitch excursions suddenly stop after the g/a has added some knots (20-30-more?) -- or did the control laws switch over?

16th Jan 2003, 04:15
This aircraft type is not suitable for adverse weather conditions.

TO: Anti Skid On

I don't believe the speedbrakes can/will extend if the thrust levers are in TOGA.

16th Jan 2003, 06:59
Speed of sound means you hear TOGA a second or two after you see it.


Ignition Override
16th Jan 2003, 07:25
It is hard for me to imagine trying that approach more than once!! Did they ask tower for the latest winds before they were on short final? Does the airport have a second runway at least 5700 feet long, which points more or less into the wind direction?

Also can't imagine trying it on a dry runway! How could they have had enough rudder to get the plane lined up on the runway, and how could they have kept the upwind wing from popping up? Do those Captains have many years of flying before they upgrade, or does extra theory help to 'compensate' for much flying experience and knowing one's comfort level and subjective limitations? Poor passengers...

And what were the company Dispatchers doing while the plane was about twenty minutes from the airport?? Discussing Selma Hayeks cleavage and latest movie, "Frida"?

16th Jan 2003, 10:16
Ignition Override

<<And what were the company Dispatchers doing while the plane was about twenty minutes from the airport?? Discussing Selma Hayeks cleavage and latest movie, "Frida"?>>

Doh. In most parts of the world the captain and co-pilot decide the fuel, the destination, the alternate and decide when to make an approach and when to go-around and when to divert.

We do not operate with dispatchers/flight following procedures like you do the good ole US of A. Bu then again wot does the civilised world know about aviation?

16th Jan 2003, 11:11
Can't get it to run. Says the file is corrupt. Can someone mail it to me please?


I couldn't get it to run either so I downloaded the file to disk (about 2.2Mb), deleted the suffix (can't remember what it was now) and then double clicked it and it launched into Windows Media Player with no problem... and that was on an Apple Mac!)

16th Jan 2003, 13:57
the weather report appears to be:

"Weather surrounding the period had strong southerly to westerly winds gusting to 42 knots with rain showers and embedded cumulonimbus clouds. Windshear (WS) was reported in the METARs all day impacting all runways due to strong low level winds associated with a strong low pressure system."

does anyone know the origin of this video clip and the email address of the person who took the video?

16th Jan 2003, 16:25
I'd be cautious about making a judgement about TOGA actuation vs sound tracks.

First, there is a delay do the speed of sound vs the camera distance, then there is the frequency spectrum vs audibility considering that the engines probably were near idle and about 7-8 sec to spool up to takeoff.

At a minimum I would at least display the frequency vs time for the audio track, in order to make a second order judgement.

I thought that I could hear a roll off in fan frequency over the runway followed by a quiet period and then the spool up. This could be displayed visually on some audio software commonly available on computers and then overlayed over digital images from the video if one wants to do some computer fun.

17th Jan 2003, 07:37
Looks like a pilot induced oscillation. The 320 is known for such possibility.

Should a gust or turbulence move the aircraft in any way from its original attitude, the aircraft will automatically recover (no vectors were given by pilot). If, however, the pilot is reacting to such an attitude change through a control input, the aircraft will assume the intend to be from the stabilized attitude, hence correct for the attitude change due to gusts plus the control input of the pilot. This “overreaction” of the aircraft leads to an opposite input, thus starting an oscillation, or “chasing the aeroplane” as it is known.

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the sound in this clip; there are too many factors which will lead to a misjudgement and conclusion

17th Jan 2003, 08:41
I had the same problems in getting the movie to show up. Danny's trick of removing the suffix (.asx) will only work on an Apple Mac as Windows needs it to identify the file type. I downloaded the file too and miraculously it played when I then double-clicked it. Check if you've got the latest Windows Media player, older versions might not recognise asx files.

17th Jan 2003, 18:33
the Video reminded me of a very hairy Trident landing, in tough conditions, at LHR, I would guess about 30 years ago ...... I always remember the skipper announcing to the passengers after landing .......

"if its any consolation, thats the worst landing I have ever had too !!!! "