Rollason Condor memories

[Stampe]

I own two of these lovely little aeroplanes G-AVXW and G-AXGZ having learnt on them at Rochester with Universal Flying Services nearly 30 years ago.Lets hear all your reminisces about those "Condor moments" good or bad.Especially of interest would be the history of AVXW before Hairyplane and I formed the Medway Flying Group with her in the late seventies.I believe she was at Portsmouth with the "Electric Light Flying group" any info??.I,ve met several people who trained on my individual craft ,lovely to hear from them especially first solos.Super aeroplanes, training on them has set me in good stead for my flying career and "vintage dabblings"(thanks largely to hairyplane).So come on you Rollason fans lets give the Miles thread a run for its money!!.:)

[treadigraph]

There is a wonderful quote from one of the Tiger Club books which goes something like:

"Tell me Norman, will you ever make money with the Condor?"

Norman Jones: "Oh yes, I've got it all worked out, I've only got to make them twice as fast for half as much and I'll do it!"

Great little aeroplanes!

[skua]

Did my PPL in them at Sth Yks FC in 1970. Soloed in G-AYFF - one of those with the supersonic wingtip mod.

Main memenory is the horse problem. Gyppos used to let their nags graze on the field overnight. My instructor was the CFI, ex RAF, great bloke. One day the nags had really got to him. I was in for the first slot. Misty morning, nags everywhere. He winds up the trusty Condor. Trundles over the grass towards the nearest nag, who does not get alarmed until the last moment. CFI climbs to 2000' over the field. So, half an hour after take-off, we do a wingover and VNE dive towards the greatest clump of nags, pulling up at 0'. Never knew the Condor was semi-aerobatic until then!

[Hairyplane]

Affectionately dubbed the 'RODNOC' I learned on them at Rochester in 75 with Stampe - now a multi-squillion-hour jet captain and me - still a hobby pilot...

I did my first solo in G-AXGS and also flew G-AWSN and G-ATAU. I didn't like AU much - it was an early machine with a short stick and was generally unpleasant to fly.

We also had privately-owned G-AYZT - I think I am correct on the reg. - at Rochester. It had a glider hook on it. I believe it is no more - crashing fatally on a glider-towing sortie?

Great little plane that were generally sneered at in the 70's mainly because they were pretty much all leased out for tuppence-hapenny to flying schools, were operated on the cheap, lived outdoors and were all sheds.

A few anecdotes - My mate Barry Johnson turned up for an early solo sortie wearing a seriously high pair of Gary Glitter-type platform boots.

His landing was a sight! His foot slipped off the rudder pedal (surprise surprise) and he ended up in the long grass.

Watching him climb out of the plane - AbFab style - hobbling around on those seriously silly boots was so funny!

Indicative of the standard of the old Universal Flying Services Rodnocs in those days - I hired SN and, as you do, waggled the wingtip (why do we all do that on a preflight?) Anyway - good job I did because the entire wingtip came off in my hand....

THere was a spate of props breaking up (Evra?) and one aircraft duly landed in a school field following a failure on climbout.

One of the instructors duly turned up, carefully paced the field and decided that he could just get it off without the need to have it taken to bits.

Prop-fitted, the engine was running when - guess what? - Ross Skinner - CFI, ex-Spitfire pilot and really big guy at the time said - 'I can't let you do this on your own - I'm coming with you.

Well - you didn't argue with Ross - especially if he had 'downed a few' - so off this thing staggered, undoubtedly overweight and - well - I remember a photo of it nose-high between 2 houses....It seemed to fall out of sight once it had cleared the rooftops but them miraculously reappeared again. All built up housing estate. Crazy....

Has anybody got a copy of photo?

Plenty more stories but I'll leave you with this one.

Local Plod wanted to mount an exercise involving drugs being flown in by light aircraft.

Across the grass scorched the plain clothes feds - Sweeney style - in their Cortina towards the 'target' Rodnoc.

Trouble was, the grass was wet.

Bang!

It skidded into the side of the fuz in a shower of plywood.

Bugg@r..................

I am sure I 'll think of more stories.

You'll need them Stampe if you are even remotely going to compete with the success of my MMMmmmiles thread!

HP

Aaaaah! Condor!

[virgo]

If you find one of your Condors is unstable in pitch, give me a shout.
Back in the seventies, I helped sort out one of Three Counties Condors which had a variable incidence wing ! The aircraft was occasionally snagged for being unstable on the approach but we all thought it was inexperience on the part of the student. Only after the CFI declared it unflyable did we look seriously for the problem and we were horrified to find the rear wing attachment bolts had worn slots in the fuselage frame due to incorrect torque loading. The wing trailing edge was moving up and down about 6 inches!!
The interesting thing is that it was used almost exclusively by one particular student who didn't like Cessna "tin-toys" and he thought that was the way it was meant to fly !

[GotTheTshirt]

Came back from the States late 70's with shiny PPL all on spam cans.
Used to maintain the Condors at Blackbushe and was suitably amazed at the little wheel at the back. They also had that other interesting machine the fibreglass Wassmer !

The CFI ( Andy ???) decided that no pilot could be complete without tail dragging time so he gave me a quick conversion. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The problem was of course the phobia of hitting the prop with nothing there to "protect" it like the spam cans.
After a couple of tail wheel landings, Andy got out , hoisted the tail up in the air to a very nose down attitude and said " look even then the props a foot clear of the ground":D :D
After that it seemed easier!

Never flew another tail wheel for years ( Done that been there :p )
But now fly an Emeraude so flying is back to being a challange again :D :D

[Stampe]

Hairyplane the dodgy batch of props fitted to the Condors were of British Manufacture called Weyrocs havn,t seen one fitted to a Condor for many years and I believe the one that failed in the incident you describe was one of those very inefficient props .Evra props are very good I,ve had no problems in many years of aviating behind them.G-AXGS was the airframe damaged in the police drugs raid incident. I like you did my first solo at age 19 on that airframe.Its still flying somewhere in the South but was of course built as Norman Jones mount for the 1969 London-Sydney air race and was fitted with a long range belly tank and a bed on the right side of the fuselage!! apparently the fittings were still apparent recently.Norman retired from the race somewhere near Paris I believe!! I guess it was only a token entry to give the marque some publicity.Seem to remember all the competitors got a pilots chronograph free at the start of the race,quite something then.The late Mike Dunk who introduced me to flying in the mid sixties entered the race in a Bonanza with another pilot Schofield?? and they actually made it to Sydney!!.Anyone remember that.Ah Golden days and no GPS.:eek:

[Hairyplane]

Weyroc? I thought that was a posh name for plasterboard...

Sorry Evra, didn't mean it - a big boy typed 'Evra' on my keyboard and ran off....

Another Anecdote - Good Old Geoff Collins (later got his CPL and flew Falcon Jets for Flight refuelling before deciding that he really wanted to be a lab technician....)

THere we were - 3000ft above Detling when he said - Hmmmm... 'The spin is a bit tame if you do it by the book' (no power/ neutral aileron) - 'lets try one with half power and full outspin aileron.'

Well... It was all a predictable blur. Lots of rotations and a sudden recovery with the nose below the vertical, following a full-forward stick input (as opposed to the standard 'check stick forwards').

My straps were tight but I am a big bloke so my head hit the canopy pretty hard but fortunately no damage - to the canopy anyway...

We were pretty low by this time, maybe just a few hundred feet.

He was strangely quiet and ashen faced.

I said 'I didn't think it was going to come out...'

'Nor did I'.....

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What about the awful twist to lock yellow throttles? Are there any of those still fitted? The Jodel one was a much better arrangement.

I remember flying as a pre-solo student with Brian Webb - last heard of at HeavyLift - Ops Manager

I think I must have twisted the throttle a bit too much because the cable jammed and the throttle wouldn't close below about 1500rpm.

Great fun judging when to pull the mixture! He got it just right.

Fortunately Rochester has a long runway.

HP

[bingoboy]

Oh dear me now that the Condor is on the history and nostalgia site I might have to get close to admitting I'm getting older.

Recall on my PPL course at Doncaster (same one as Skua) I went off on a cross country to East Midlands (Caste Don.. whatever) with only one brake working. Was told to just get on with it. Taxying was a bit banana like but what the heck.

Also recall having the elevator freeze up once. Fortunately I was with an instructor so we just reduced power and descended into warmer air.

Ahhhhhh Condorsssss

[Stampe]

Bingoboy sounds a familiar story my licence cross country Rochester-Stapleford-Ipswich-Rochester was done in a Condor with the following defects.:-
1)Suction pump u/s hence no A/H,D.I.
2)Radio U/s flight entirely non radio and the much better for it.
3)Generator U/s so a good battery was fitted before I left and told to prime correctly at each stop to ensure a good start to avoid depleting battery.
4)Flaps unserviceable and taped in the up position.Not a problem because some of the Condors I was learning on had no flaps!.

Other than that it was good ship!!certainly no hairdressers mount.Still remember the day well very enjoyable.Flying training was character forming for me and has stood me in good stead always grateful to the instuctors who taught me.In so many ways they take to the air with me still everytime I fly.just hope my subsequent students feel the same about me. :D

[Bluebeard2]

Hello all - my memories of Condors are brief but all pleasant: I'm member of a group that now owns the aforementioned G-AYFF. Its still in good nick and, yes, it does still have the yellow twist lock throttle. Have heard various stories about the spin, something to do with whether the battery is behind of the cockpit or in the engine compartment?

Makes the average spamcam seem like a Ford Transit - lovely.

[Hairyplane]

Hi Bluebeard,

G-AYFF.

I remember 'FF - I think - at WemAir ('Oily' Doyle??) at Biggin Hill in the 70's.

Parked outside in the weather, for sale at the time I believe, it was clearly unloved and - I have to say - a right shed. Even then it looked like it needed a comprehensive overhaul.

I bet it is loved now though!

Get yourselves one of those really nice Jodel throttles, with a proper friction device. I can't imagine you really like the yellow twisty one?

Another anecdote -

We had this crazy guy Wolfgang Shmidt - not of Medway origin you will have deduced - who blagged his company into buying an Aztec (G-ASNA, where are you now) and became their chief pilot with 4 bars overnight. At the time, he had less than 100 hours, no IMC - nothing.

Lots of very interesting stories about Wolfie ( he was always getting lost and on one occasion suffered an engine quit on finals - he actually went round on the live engine. THe tanks were drained afterwards and only unusable fuel was found in the tanks. He had almost literally done a circuit on vapours.)

but this one is Condor-related.

He needed to get to Elstree for maintenance. I left before him. 2 hours later, he still hadn't arrived.

THe guy in the tower called W Drayton I think to find that Wolfie was getting a service over towards Luton I think.... Hopelessly lost again.

Anyway, with impending darkness - but not wanting to lose the petrol money for bringing him back - I waited around until I thought - 'thats it - I have to go.'

I remember - as a 50-hour PPL - skimming the NE corner of the Heathrow zone - power at a higher setting than normal but not flat out - looking down at the red buses (now with their headlights on) thinking - 'not a nice place to get an engine failure - I won't cut it so close next time....'

Bang! Massive vibration, throttle back - OOOOOoooh Sh@t!

Called Mayday - very calm voice on the other end - opened the window to cool myself down - squeezed the throttle open until I felt that the vibration would shake the engine out of its mounts - backed off a bit and then set course for Stapleford.

The look of disappointment on the faces of the crash crew when I stopped 2 feet short of the boundary fence - I didn't have the height to do a proper circuit and landed downhill/ downwind.

What happened? The engine had been - ahem - fully rebuilt and painted a nice gold colour. That didn't stop one of the cylinders cracking all the way around the base. There was hardly any oil in it by then also.

So - Wolfie and I both came home - separately(!) by road.

ILAFFT

HP

[Stampe]

Ah bluebeard YFF a very nice aeroplane its restoration by the very talented Alan Caldecot won a pot at the PFA rally in the late eighties or early nineties.Don,t believe all you hear about the Condors spin !!it is a basic trainer after all.Just before I learnt on them the club kept a couple of the Tiger Moths which the Condors had replaced back for spin training as the Condors weren,t then cleared for it but none of the instructors were interested in flying the Tigers which were the same hourly rate as the Condors.Eventually Rollasons decided to get it approved for spinning and a test pilot spent a day at Rochester spinning the dear old Condor from a great height and the type was cleared with a three turn limitation.I guess the spinning report is held by the PFA who now hold all the Rollason design information for the type ,I keep meaning to spend a day at S horeham browsing the paperwork.The dear old condor spins properly in both directions generally quite nose down and winds up into quite a fast rotation which I guess is the reason for the 3 turn limitation.Recovery is prompt with the standard spin recovery drill but I,had students do it incorrectly and start a spin in the opposite direction so unlike modern trainers recovery action needs to be correct.Entry is only approved power off flaps up.If you decide to do it in yours find a good instructor to show you how and have plenty of height I would recommend 5000ft + on entry.Remember if yours is a Permit machine it will not have been required to demonstrate spin recovery on recertification in the way that Cof A examples are.I believe the battery was moved from the firewall to the mid fuselage to move the Cof A rearwards to facilitate spin entry but I,m not sure the current fad of moving the battery forward on Permit aircraft is worth the effort.Any Rollasons people out there who can comment on this!!.Is Dev still about????.But remember we used to be allowed to go off solo as students spinning and Hairyplane and I as brand new PPLs used to go spinning for fun when we couldn,t afford a cross country adventure so it can,t be that much of a terror :eek:

[DOC.400]

Ah, Condor!

My Condor moment? First hands on take off to touch down of a tail wheeler and my first spin!! (Not at the same time!!)

Thanks to the kind owner at White Waltham many years ago!!

DOC

[Stampe]

Just to prompt those fading memories the marque has an excellent website at www.rollason-condor.co.uk Well worth al look especially the history section:) Be really interesting to put early locations/clubs to the individual machines.Although only 49 were built their role as a prolific trainer in the sixties ,seventies and eighties saw initiating a huge number of pilots.

[atb1943]

I noted G-AWSP at Pontoise on 6 June 1969, possibly in for a visit to the Paris Air Show.

[SlipSlider]

Stampe, G-AVXW was indeed operated for a while at Portsmouth by the "Electricity Flying Club", in the early 70's I think - the airfield closed in '73, and the EFC operated an Auster Autocrat until about 1970.

G-AXGS is currently operated by a group of three pilots based at Goodwood, looking quite smart and still fitted with the long-range belly tank (the group is looking for another member I believe).

And of course not forgetting the incident with the Condor and the LandRover at Popham, in the early days .....

Slip

[Stampe]

Thanks for that slipslider lovely to think of XW flying from the long gone Portsmouth.I,d love to know where she was between there and the Medway Flying Group being formed with her at Rochester in June 1977.Pity some of the old Rollason employees who built and maintained the breed can,t be found.I have so many questions as to why various things happened during the development of the breed.Had the honour of meeting Frank Hounslow (Chief Engineer )many years ago, sadly he has passed on but his inspection signature in pencil can be found in many places internally on XW where he inspected glue joints.Believe Dev from the Tiger Club hangar at Redhill is still alive and guess I could try and get in touch with Michael Jones who is living in retirement in France I believe.:)

[simon niceguy]

Don't want to bring a downer on this thread, but,.......... was the CFI at Fairoaks killed in a Condor crash, early 1970's ? A nice guy, I met him once. Asian I think.

Simon.

:(

[Stampe]

Correct Simon 20th July1973 G-ATSK crashed on take off northern boundary of Fairoaks.Remember reading the AIB accident report made very interesting reading quoting from distant memory I believe insufficient distance was allowed for take off ,basically a performance related accident.Given the types extensive usage as an ab initio trainer and glider tug the attrition rate of the breed has been remarkably low.The number that survive is a tribute to the inherent ruggedness of the Rollason built examples.I well remember when they first arrived at Rochester to replace the Tiger Moth the fitters saying they wouldn,t last five minutes.They were proved wrong and they didn,t have to spend lots of time rebuilding crashed examples .It always seemed Rochester had one of its Moths on rebuild after a major accident ,almost a disposable aircraft.I,ll try and dig up the accident report if I can and post further details.

[Legalapproach]

Ahhhh Condor. Did quite a lot of tugging in AZMV, AVAW and AYXU during the 80's. Delightful aircraft to fly and not too underpowered for tugging. I had a problem with the throttle friction sticking with the throttle wide open which led to an interesting few moments wondering what the #### I was going to do. Flew around trying to release it without any luck. Eventually flew over the airfield tight turned a couple of 360's to get the speed down and then closed the mixture. All ended happily.

[Stampe]

Legal guess you were a "Tibenham tugger" dropped in there many years ago (PPR gained of course) and was made most welcome by the tuggies and got a great pix of my XW in a line with MV and AW!!.I think at least one if not both of these have since been lost in accidents any info!!.Seem to remember seeing the remains of one in the hangar at Shipdham.Interested to see your comments on the types suitablity for tugging I believe it can no longer cope with the weights of the heavier modern gliders.Opinion seems to vary as to how good a tug it was!! are any still tugging??.The tug variants with the 130 Horse 0-240 are less desirable as everyday mounts as they consume more fuel for very little speed gain and the Condors small (15 I.G. 69lts) is one of its few downsides!!.Great for shortfields though.Don,t recognise the third reggie you give! perhaps a log book error??:)

[treadigraph]

YXU rings a bell as a Citabria with me, so may well have still been tugging...

[Ailorron]

Hi, I first flew( power) in condor G AXGZ on 29 August 1970, aged 11, from Hemswell with my father, who had just done a silver C conversion. I just found an old log book - I used to keep records (I've always been sad!!!). Others flown - G AWFF, G AWAT. Sadly, when I was old enough to learn to fly it was on spam cans, so I never did the taildragger thing. I fly 744's now, but am getting back to grass roots..........................

[Legalapproach]

Errr yes, YXU was the Citabria and the Condor was AYFE! Also tugged with Pawnee BEKX. Tibbenham had the advantage of being in the less than rolling hillsides of Norfolk so the Condor had the additional advantage of the curvature of the earth with which to get airborne. It's a while since I tugged there and I think that the club has a Robin these days. The condor was a great little aircraft although two crashed whilst I was there. One accident involved a newly qualified tug pilot who appeared to get lost and then ran out of fuel trying to land at Eye. The pilot almost made it but crashed into the gardens of a country house hotel killing herself. The hotel was owned by a chap with whom I shared a Robin 210.

The second Condor crashed at Tibenham but I can't remember the cause. Again, I think that the pilot was killed.

The Condor was a lovely little aircraft to fly but if you flew it regularly you could become a bit blase thinking that it would do anything you wanted it to. I once had a very nasty moment when making a curved approach. At the last minute (at no more than 3 hundred feet or so) a glider started to cut in front of me {tugs and gliders normally flew opposite circuits} I tightened my turn instinctively whereupon the condor stalled and flicked. I think I managed a full rotation before recovering just in time to scrape over the boundary fence with my pulse rate in the low 000's.

On another occasion a glider got out of position and suddenly pulled up whilst a few hundred feet on the climbout. This instantly gave me a very good view of the field below. The glider pilot then corrected by shoving his nose down and my tail up. The world went from brown to blue very quickly before I dumped the tow rope and glider. The jammy b##### then actually managed to find a thermal and scraped away from about 4-500 feet to spend the next two hours airborne. This was lucky for him as by the time he landed I had calmed down and gave him significantly less of a piece of my mind than I had earlier planned.

[The Inspector]

Ahhh yes, the Condor. Got lots of time in 'YFD which was owned by the Tiger Club at the time. They sold it to Brian Manning who I believe still owns it. It had a very overpowering smell of avgas, caused by a felt blanket between fuel tank and top decking being soaked in fuel. Made your headache even worse after the night before......Bloody awful headroom, and manky handbrake arrangement. Apart from that, a very nice machine, with excellent handling qualities. Not many people flew 'YFD for some reason, although it was dead cheap and always available.

Memories of returning back home to Redhill from Seething on a brilliant summer evening not above 500ft all the way home. Perfectly legal your honour!

Also flew 'WEI a few times in the early 80's. Are they aerobatic? 'Cos the guy who checked me out certainly did show me a few barrel rolls........


Stampe,

Adrian 'Dev' Deverell died a few years ago, and his ashes were scattered over Redhill airfield from Tiger Moth 'CDC of the Tiger Club. Bloody nice bloke..

[Mr_Grubby]

In the summer of ’73 I was sitting in the tower at Southend. A nice summers day, usual SLAC PA –28’s going around and the odd BAF Carvair. Then a Condor appears in the overhead. Obviously non radio as he lets down on the dead side and joins downwind. He lands on the grass parallel to runway 23. Two guys leap out and have a quick pee on the grass. They jump back in the Condor and depart, never to be seen again. So anybody want to own up to this ? Landing fee ( or should that be landing pee ?) still outstanding !!!!!!!!

Mr G.

[FBS]

I learned to fly at Thruxton on AVOH and was very fond of it. First solo was one June evening. I did most of my flying on the Condor but went over to Robin and Slingsby for anything that involved instruments. I remember being asked by a lady controller at Boscombe if we were transponder equipped. As my instructor hit the button to reply "negative" I had said "She wants to think hersellf lucky we even have a f****** altimeter. Lesson learned!

Last I heard AVOH was due to go off to the US.

FBS

[Stampe]

Ah Ailorron great to see you had your "Bapteme de l,air" in my GZ it must have been a nearly new aircraft back then!!great also to see that as for so many of us who learnt on them the Condor led you into an aviation career!!.Certainly its a great stick and rudder trainer I ,ve always been glad of the foundation of handling skills my training on the breed has provided.Time perhaps you renewed your acquaintance with GZ( I,d be delighted;) .
FBS I believe VOH is still in the Uk. and possibly the last Condor on a full Public Transport C.of A. I believe after a lengthy rebuild its available for hire from a club at Hinton in the Hedges.Can anyone confirm that.
When I do eventually get round to rebuilding my lovely AVXW I may put her back on Public Transport so she can contribute to her operating costs.What a crazy world when roughly half of the remaining Condors are operating happlily on permits and the remainder can no longer be transferred from Certificate of Airworthiness,s its a bureacratic nonsense which is undoubtedly making the restoration of some Condors uneconomic!!:rolleyes: effectively keeping them out of the air.Hopefully that will change one day.

[Steamhead]

Late 70's early 80's in a group at Nayland with G-AXGT.
Remember one incident - hadn't flown for some time and fairly low hours on tail draggers so get hold of a guy who had thousands of hours on tail draggers and ask for a checkout.
"O.K." he says "Lets go across to Earles Colne (a no landing fee grass strip in those days) and shoot some circuits"
On approach I suggest he does the first landing and talk me through it.
We touch down nicely and ground loop into the young corn with the usual comment "Oh S**T."
No damage so we carry on doing circuits with him totally refusing to say or touch anything.
I still smile about this.

Regards

[ex jump pilot]

Flew those operated by both the Tiger Club and Mike Peare (who has cropped up in Canada....).
Just looked it up on log book no. 1 it was TAU (TC owned) and took it to Old Warden.
Went spinning in WEI - absolutely classic recovery. Was so used to the gentle Tiger Moth that I didn't centralise the rudder quickly enough and the spin promptly started in the other direction...
Otherwise, flew the Cub to White Waltham when there was a resurrection of the Condor Club.
Great 'planes.

[Stampe]

EJP ATAU is still around somewhere not been very active of late I believe Mike still has an interest in it.AU as one of the evolutionary Condors was quite a lot different from the later Condors slightly longer fuselage ,undercarriage mounted further aft making it more prone to standing on its nose compared to later build airframes, a very short stick and one of those Tiger moth compasses mounted between the seats making it hard to read with parallex.AU was one the Condors I trained on and its differences made it less popular than later ones ,certainly I was less fond of it.The earlybuilds were really well built and many have fond memories of her,I seem to remember she was one of the flapless ones.AWEI is now on rebuild somewhere having been purchased from Chessington after the sad demise of Geof Masterton.Condor spinning is certainly classic and lively, best make sure you ,ve got sufficient height, though I,ve never had recovery problems when standard and correct recovery action was taken.I,d love to read the report of the Farnborough test pilot who did the original spin clearance trials conducted from Rochester( in the late sixties I believe) anyone have any ideas!!. I imagine the 3 rotation limitation is due to the way the rotation winds up very quickly.Used to spin em for fun but late middle age sees me prefer more sedate mounts for"Parke,s dive" preferably biplanes and a parachute if possible!!.Recently met the instructor who gave me my first four lessons in Condors 30 years ago he,s recently re discovered the breed and was enthusing about the type ,said he,d forgotten just how lovely their handling is.He too is a skipper for one of the Uk majors a lot of us owe a great debt to the little Rollason Condor:ok:

[Hairyplane]

Thanks a lot to Stampe who kindly allowed me to reaquaint myself with his rodnoC G-AXGZ at Old Warden at the weekend.

Brave guy didn't even want to give me any dual!

My immediate reaction on strapping myself in was how small it was. However, the cockpit is quite roomy and the controls fall nicely to hand. Well - with the exception of the flap lever - that does require an extra wrist to lower full flap!

I found myself over-controlling it in roll on the climbout as my memories of those delightful ailerons came flooding back. The roll-rate is quite something.

For sheer 'bang for your buck' the Condor is hard to beat.

A simple, easy to fly machine with benign handling characteristics and within the capabilities of most pilots.

I reckon even the most died in the wool spammer would quickly get the hang of it.

A flying school witha fleet of Condors? Theres a tantalising thought! Cheap as chips to buy, airframe spares grow in the ground.....

Thanks again Stampe for allowing me that 'Condor moment' - glad you liked your solo in the Magister too!

HP

[Stampe]

Ailorron I think your post renewing old acquaintances was meant for this thread and consider it done a "Condor moment" awaits.Golf Zulu is all freshly permitted and running nicely.be interesting to see how you find her after a thirty year break!!.:ok:

[Ailorron]

Thanks Stampe, I'll look forward to that - just hope my little legs'll reach the rudder pedals!!! 30 years is a little kind - of course mental age is a lot less!

[Stampe]

Just discovered that famed pprune medico contributor Flying dutch shares my own immaculate taste in aeronautical gadabouts owning a share in AVOH.Good taste Sir!!:ok:

Finally John Havers aviation historian and Condor "guru" has come up with the answers on the past life on my two!!.Which started this thread.Might be of interest to" Ailorron " who I believe made their first flight with their father in GZ leading to a most glittering aviation career,and of course "Hairyplane" who formed the original Medway Flying Group with me on XW far to many years ago!!.
RAE.625 62B G-AVXW 03.11.67 Rollason Aircraft & Engines Ltd
05.01.68 CofA issued. (100hp Continental 0-200-A)
08.01.68 N.H.Jones.
1968 Op. Rochester Flying Club.
1968-70 Op. Wolverhampton Aero Club. (2620hrs. flown).
09.03.71 To Redhill.
1971 Op. Portsmouth Flying School.
late 1973 Goodwood, later Ink Pen Ridge.
22.02.74 Rochester, later Sherburn.
1975 Biggin Hill.
mid 1976 Rochester
1977 Op. Medway Flying Group.
15.07.78 Minor damage at Rochester when with above.
04.09.79 Medway Flying Group Ltd, Rochester.
11.01.83 M.D.Bailey, Rochester.
08.05.87 Alan John Cooper, Rochester. Raced as "19".
28.09.01 Last flight at 4900hrs & for sale/breaking £3500. In 02 the
owner decided to retain the aircraft for a long-term rebuild.

RAE.643 62B G-AXGZ 03.06.69 Rollason Aircraft & Engines Ltd
24.07.70 N.H.Jones
27.07.70 CofA issued. (100hp Continental 0-200-A)
1970-80 Op. Lincoln Aero Club, Hemswell/Sturgate.
21.04.80 P.W.Johnson & J.T.Hayes t/a Lincoln Condor Group,
Sturgate.
18.04.83 M.J.Board & E.C.Cossings t/a Lincoln Condor Group.
09.06.86 M.J.Board & B.K.Barrett t/a Lincoln Condor Group
02.02.88 B.K.Barrett & J.E.Hobson t/a Lincoln Condor Group
21.06.93 J.Evans, Griffins Fm, Temple Bruer, Lincs.
27.11.00 M.L.Jackson., Headcorn.
29.01.02 Alan J.Cooper, Rochester

[InFinRetirement]

Interesting thread this Stampe! I was a naughty boy! I had a few rides in the lovely Condor but only logged those at Lasham for some reason. Tugging in ATAV. I enjoyed tugging. Did it in AOAA too at Redhill. Remember those trips?

Remember "Oily Doylie" well at Biggin. One of the characters if ever there was one.

I thought the Condor was a super aeroplane. Ah!!! Those were indeed the days.

IFR

[ex jump pilot]

Ah - Condors. Flew both the one from the Tiger Club ('TAU) and also one operated by Mike Peare in the Condor Club ('WEI - young Mike has surfaced in Canada for those who want a word with him...).
Spins. Yes. Not as gentle shall we say as a Tiger. On the former, no great rush about centralising the rudder. On the Condor, you had to be quick about it otherwise the rotation switched to the other way (as I learnt to my discomfit).
Had a very kind offer to have a go in one last year whilst it was visiting Bourn. Brought back all the reasons why they are a treat to fly.

[Stampe]

Concolidating posts an interesting memory from an experienced aviator in the States thx Speedbird48

posted 18th January 2004 22:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rollason Condor Memories
Back in the early '70's I had many brushes with the Condor. I flew G-AXGU for many happy hours and many adventures. One was at Redhill when Chris Jesson wanted to come along and at the last minute dumped a dog on the back shelf. All was well until I started the engine and the dog departed over Chris's shoulder and the open door. It ended up stuck up to it's belly as all of it's feet went through the upper fabric but was supported on the, better, underside fabric. Michael Jones had one of his fits over that one although Chris and I fixed it in short order. Chris went on to fly for Dan Air and later BA from Gatwick.
In those days I was a lowley peon with BOAC, on the 707, and I spent my stand-by hours at Redhill to be within the 1 1/2 hour limit for stand-by crews. In that time I delivered many all over the place as they were exchanged when they came up for an inspection. At the time they were all owned by Rollasons and leased, at very cheap rates to many struggling clubs. I bought one back from East Anglia and told the hanger guys that it flew strange and the next day they showed me the broken rear spar!!
My log book shows 'YZT, 'YFH, VMB,'TVW and 'XGT at a quick glance.
Brian.
Not a good co-ordinated airplane but a good trainer never the less and lot of people got started thanks to Norman Jones.




:ok:

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Stampe et al.,

Thanks for pointing this thread out to me. I usually only hang out on the PF and Medical forums and my wife complains bitterly that I spend far too much time on the 'puter!

I have been flying AVOH on and off for some 10 years until the urge to replace the Robin share which I sold off 18 months became irresistable.

Had been looking at a Cub (my dad used to fly those in the Netherlands) but they are fetching silly money at the moment.

One of the deciding reasons to get involved with the Condor was that I could afford the flying of it and that my 3 year old who loves flying can sit next to me.

Bought the share of Tom Eagles of PFT (they use it for tail wheel conversions) in July 03 and it has been serious good fun ever since!

Been to various fly ins and meeting up with mates and on every trip thoroughly enjoyed it as did Sophia whenever she came along. After flying to a BBQ at Bourn in August she tapped me on the shoulder on taxying in and stated: 'That was good' we sung nursery rimes on the way back until she fell asleep near Cranfield. Truly golden memories!

No war stories just yet, but as with most things in aviation it is usually a matter of time before you get exposed to those!

Look forward to meeting up with you Stampe so that we can do a photoshoot of at least our three 'Rodnocs'

FD

[Man-on-the-fence]

Did somebody say Photoshoot??

You know who to call :ok:

[4Screwaircrew]

Got The Tshirt,

That CFI sounds like Andy Aldridge who I think is flying the Electra for Air Atlantique, when we flew together he often spoke with great affection of the Condor.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Just been to the Rollason website and there are some people trying to get some Condors to turn up for the 16th of May at Sandown.

I made a tentative booking to attend with OH.

Stampe, fancy coming to Sandown too?

FD

[FBS]

Good to hear that AVOH is alive and well and being used regularly. The last I heard was that it was about to be bought by a beastly American (Before you shout I doubt he really was beastly!) and exported, that must have been about two years ago.

I have many happy memories of learning in OH. First solo was on the evening of 2 June 1992 at Thruxton with Simon Cottrell. Had a number of fun flights with Barry Dyke too. I remember him referring to the standing joke of multiple landing fees on a single landing after I managed to bounce a bit on take off "Good thing there's no F****** take off fees . . ."

I hope you have any happy hours in OH and if I see her I'll come and say hello.

FBS

[Hairyplane]

Hi FD!

That clashes with G-VFWE @ Abingdon. I know Stampe is hoping to get his Condor there in addition to ferrying either the Maggie or the Falcon for me.

It would be nice to get a gaggle of Rodnoc's at G-VFWE.

You need to book early to stand a chance of getting in at G-VFWE although you clearly have an advantage already if you plan to bring such a great British classic.

A quick Rodnoc story - there I was in 1976 pre-flighting G-AWSN (I believe) at Rochester. I remember wondering why pilots seemed to grab and shake wingtips irrespective of type - seemed a pointless thing to do to me.

Anyway, almost as a pi$$-take to the spamcan driver next to me, I grabbed the wing-tip of the rodnoC and shook it in the same way. Guess what? It came off in my hand.... The whole moulded wing tip!

I have to say that the Universal Flying Services machines were 'a bit doggy' - as indeed most Condors seemed to be, probably because they couldn't sell them and only leased them to (poor) flying clubs out of desperation(?).

As a young detective in the Kent Police I must confess to the odd detour on duty to Rochester to fly. Trouble was it cost me £6.40...
per hour and I was hooked!

I alse remember a traffic car crew visiting Rochester on a Sunday in 1979 for a cup of tea and were amazed to find one of their colleagues instructing on Robins. I took them for a quick circuit in one - police radios squawking away - and will never forget the smug 'naughty boy' looks on their faces afterwards.

Similar thing happened when SB collared me on one of my trips from Eire to Enstone in my Robin Regent in 02. Lovely bloke - within 10 minutes he was on the phone to his missus saying, 'look out of the window luv, I'm about to fly over the house!'

I'll post a few more Condor Moments when I get a chance.

HP

[TD&H]

Lots of enthusiasm for the Rodnoc. Haven't had the pleasure but do fly Emeraude. I've noticed a post mentioned them. Anyone wish to comment on how they compare? At least it seems that (some) Rodnocs are allowed to spin, wish the CAA would be more amenable to allowing spins and gentle aeros in the Emeraudes. (Can't afford a CAP10!).

Thanks and cheers,

H

[Stampe]

Td&h,The emeraude only flown one a couple of times and that was many years ago your a lucky man if you own one!!.The Cap 10 is perhaps my dream machine one day perhaps!!.In many ways the two types are very similar the emeraude has a bit of a name for having a tricky wing drop at the stall with that elliptical wing but I don,t remember it being anymore aggressive than the Condor in that respect.Both were designed around the same time and I believe possibly in response to a design contest in France (any of you aero historians care to comment) so I suppose similarity is not surprising.The emeraude really wins with that lovely bubble canopy though one of the homebuilt Condors is finished with a very similar canopy and then the similarity between the types is striking.I suspect the Condor is the more robust of the types in its intended role as a trainer and have suffered very few incidents given their role in life.I remember when Condors were first issued to Rochester by Universal Flying Services to replace the venerable Tiger Moth the fitters shook their heads in disbelief and said they wouldn,t last five minutes.They of course behaved magnificently compared to the moth fleet which usually had about half the fleet under repair from major incidents (ie crashes).Another virtue of the Condor is the excellent instrument panel layout.It was fitted out using surplus instruments of the late 40s including a Mk1B horizon and the never bettered Smiths S2 DI ,all in all a very uncluttered and functional instrument/switch layout.I remembering jumping into the cockpit of Hendon,s Lancaster to take some pix and being surprised to see the primary panel layout virtually identical to the Condor.The French light aircraft manufactures never really got that aspect right until very recently !!.I,ve found the panel layouts on factory manufactured Jodels for example quite awful and don,t seem to remember the emeraude being markedly better.Like the emeraude its a crying shame the Condor wasn,t cleared for aeros its handling cries out for it and a few foolish individuals have tried it reporting very satisfactory results.The wing itself appaears plenty beefy but the bolts attaching the wing especially in negative g are not that impressive so an area best left unvisited.As far as I know all Condors were cleared for spinning when on CofA but not sure if its included on the Permits of those that have gone down to PFA permits.Your most welcome to come and have a go on my machine but of course we,,l have to sample your Emeraude as well !1sounds like a perfect aviating day!!,cntact me.:ok:

[Hairyplane]

I well remember my spinning training in the good old Condor.

From memory it stalled at 42 kts clean so a classic spin entry @ circa 45kts produced an immediate spin.

It really went round like a top although to be fair I havent done much spinning in anything else since so not much to compare.

Spins were restricted to 3 full turns (power off/ neutral ailerons) and boy was that enough. However, it immediately recovers using the standard full opposite rudder and ease forward on the stick. I remember that it would recover 'over the vertical' if you pushed the stick too far forward.

It would also readily 'go the other way' if you were too slow in centralising.

I spent hours and hours spinning away, often with some older 'oh no not you again, I suppose its spinning again?? instructors. ( Brian Hunter where are you?)

Post PPL I remember being a passenger at around 3500 ft with a dear friend Geoff (surname omitted for sheer good manners - OK it was Collins...) and remembering also the standard Condor/ Tiger Club placard 'All aircraft bite fools'.

I vividly recall Geoffs immortal words - 'lets try full outspin aileron and half throttle' 'Whuuump! It went as flat as your hat. It seemed like 5 or 6 rotations later and with the fields of Detling looking very detailed indeed that it finally 'snapped out over the vertical. Being tall - my head hit the windscreen frame quite heavily.

After a few gasps of breath followed by a short period of awkward silence, I said, 'I didn't think we were going to come out of that' to which he replied rather quietly, 'nor did I....@

Those were the days!

CAP 10 Stampe?? Go for it! There are no pockets in a shroud. Youv'e been talking about it for years!

Oh yes...Can I have a go??

HP

[Snakecharmer]

Cracking machine!

Got checked out by Mike Peare on G-AWEI... my first taildragger. Also flew G-AYFC and G-ATAU in the same era. Ended up as one of his 'check pilots' doing tailwheel convexes in these and a little in the Stampe... This converting of spamcan-'trained'(!) pilots to the Condor was what motivated me to become an instructor... teach them to fly properly in the first place!

Mike also let slip that the CAP10 was 'the' aeroplane... so here I am, operating a CAP10! Still hanker after a nostalgia ride in the old Condor though...

[TD&H]

Thanks Stampe for those comments.

Some of the later Emeraudes have a good panel with the basic six layout, and in front of the left seat rather than central. The biggest problem being lack of depth to fit standard size radios.

Sounds like the Condor and Emeraude are of similar delight to fly. With the CAP10 being the ultimate. With you, me and HP all fancying a play on one again perhaps we should buy a Pprune CAP10 to share and play with!

Please check your PM

Regards H