Get a CPL and ??? Do you expect it?

[High Altitude]

Now I may be from the ole school where you have to want to work etc...

It seems that todays breed just expects it to happen (yes sorry for those who don't).

For instance I put a post on re a bombing job and 2 emails recieved from it? What were you scared off by the fact that you would have to work hard? Or that you would have to take a personal stance to get the conditions you want? Well done to the 2 who emailed & good luck.

I tried to find someone for a HARD WORKING cattle station job and again to no joy???

Another for us this time someone for Timber Creek... Hard again, and lets face it its a place with a pub, great fishing and a Contiki bus once a week.

True two of the above were private ops but bl**dy good chances to get started.

It appears to me that the generation of today does not want to work? Unfortunatley for you it takes hard work to succeed.

The funny thing is it is never hard to find a pilot to base in Darwin???

[exmexican]

HA,
If the bombing jobs are private, then negotiation of conditions would be acceptable.
If it's a commercial op, no-one should have to "take a personal stance to get the conditions " they want, that's what the award scheme is for. Pound of flesh for a pound of flesh.

[ulm]

And Timber Creek had great barmaids in the '80s.

I was one of them :)

[Mr. Hat]

HA - back when I started out I would have flooded your email for both of those. Been there done that and no need to go back to the private ops world.

It does seem that very few want to do the hard yards. I've had to twist some arms in my time to help people out.

As I posted a while ago - met a bloke with 200 or so hrs (wanted a job with us). He told me how he could have had a job on a station "but hey it was only 5 hrs a week..and they work you really hard when your not flying".

My thoughts? "Are you kidding bloke - you got 200 hrs - take what you can get and you might be surprised what is on offer when you proove yourself".

I even thought about doing a year as a station hand to improve my chances at getting a job on a STATION. Luckily I got the job before that... still I ended up doing a lot of ringing in between flying.


Hope the airlines can pick those that really want it.

[mince]

I'll take anything I can get in a second! However, in my experience most people want more than the 150-200 hours a fresh CPL has. Can't afford to pay for hours myself any more. If anything comes your way I'll definitely be KEEN!

[radar o'reilly]

I think there might be a couple of things here to consider HA.

As mince has displayed, nearly all pilots with a fresh CPL (150TT) or up to 200TT would jump at either of those jobs.

lets peruse your examples.

Paradropper :

cant find exact post but know that there was 350TT minimum.

Station Pilot :

Needed : CPL, 400 hours min, GOOD ATTITUDE.

If you do not meet the above requirements please do not send a resume or it will be filed in the recycling department.

Your advertisement should reveal to you your lack of reply from fresh CPL holders . I am not suggesting either job is below a pilot with 350 or 400TT. But to sell either position as private ops but bl**dy good chances to get started.
you are living with the fairies.


Don't sh!tcan fresh CPL holders as being lazy and a "generation of people who don't want to work" because they don't reply to your adverts that they don't qualify for. I don't know about mince, but it took me 5 years of crap work to aquire my 200TT. That $41,000 I worked and saved for can't even get me a paradropping or station job for you, or anyone else it would seem. There are plenty more 150 - 200TT pilots out there that have walked the same road and can't get jobs.

It's good how you get on here and start popping off that you get no reply. That is because every newbie with 150 or 200TT didn't see the need to have thier reply filed in the "recycling department."

Most pilots with 350 or 400TT have got thier start, they probably don't have any desire to leave a company that they may progress through.

Run a position with 150TT or 200TT minimum and I am sure your email would be bombarded with resume's, including mine. You never know, you may find a diamond in the rough.

Last time I checked the regulations, pilots get thier start after doing a 150 hour CPL, not 400 hour CPL.


rant over.

[Ang737]

Call me old school to but I consider it paramount to do the hard yards. I spoke with a mate last night who do that just that and made it into Cathay.

As for the bare CPL having 200TT and the operator requiring 350TT, why not just send you resume in and why not just jump on the phone and see what your chances are. If you don't ask you don't get and it takes no time at all in the scheme of things.

I have a bare CPL and MECIR and rest assured I will be flooding the market with resume and phone calls when the time comes. If in the meantime anyway has any jobs going drop me a line

Ang.

[marshall]

Well said radar o'reilly!

[Mr. Hat]

Radar - Part of what you are saying is true and I understand where you are coming from as I have been there.

However - Lets say the majority of these 3-400 are actually employed as you say. They are not going to apply right? Then there are the guys with 3-400 with no job who are trying for something a little better than the private ops. They won't apply either. That leaves the operator with less options. Of the ones that do apply not all will have the guts to ring up and go and see the bloke. Of those some will take one look at the joint and say "you ARE joking aren't you". What happens here is that the employer is left with few to choose from. He'll be umming and aring that he really likes none of them.. then you turn up on the scene.. - keen as bloody mustard - like a raging bull (right..?). Sure you don't have the hours but consider this:

For the station manager - its now been two weeks since he has checked those bores/fences and if those cattle die he is going to lose the country boys "dream job".

For the parachute man - he is seeing hotbabe backpakers (I threw that in to add to the story) turn up and leave empty handed. I.e money that could have and should have been his-walking out the door.

The moral of the story is - I've seen people change minimums when the pressure was on. I also happen to know that there aren't that many 350 hr guys out there. Give it a go and you never know you might be their last option.


Good luck with it mate.

[slice]

bwahh ha haha ha HA!

Shat myself with hysterics when I saw this post! An employer that pays the usual poor wages and crap conditions complaining that there are not hundreds of potential pilots to pick from. Cry me a river Johnny!

There is a God after all!:D :D :D :D

[High Altitude]

Slice... not quiet correct, yep go shake that palm tree and watch the pilots fall out.

What I am refering to is a very broad generalisation to what I think of the youth of today.

The pvt ops jobs that I have tried to get people for in the past have actually been very well paying jobs (not the para) but required VERY VERY VERY hard work, i.e. 8 hours PVT flying followed by up at sunup for a day in the yards till sundown, then maybe up at sunup for another 8 hours flying - HARD WORK. Lets face it a station is great, fed 3 meals a day, no where to go, yep you actually save money.

How do I get from 200 hours to 300 hours - well if you can't figure that one out then... i'm not gunna spoon feed. But why not do what alot do and that is work and save $$$ get a group together and go of on a journey to where you think you may want to end up.

Radar - you do make valid points although you didn't email to the last request which didn't have any minimums written. Don't take me wrong I am not having a go at you.

Now on the general job scene there is no excuse not to be able to find employment whilst searching for that job, there is ALWAYS work around somewhere.

Yes it is an industry where you do have to put up with ***** but don't forget we all put up with the same ***** no matter what side of the fence you are on. Remember you are talking to someone that not that long ago was where you are. No Troubles hit the nail on the head though saying that your patience does run thin.


:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Aussiebert]

I've been away from this forum for a couple of weeks, just catching up now, suffice to say i don't recall these advertisements.

I'd jump at a chance to fly, while i don't totally agree with the work for nothin aspect of private ops, i'd do the meatbombing to build hours

But heres the thing, i would still need a roof over my head and food on my table, and thats why i'm working my arse off in another job saving every penny i can. It's so in a couple of months i can afford to get in a car (or plane) and go wherever i need to go.

I had a CPL a few months ago. I have less than 200 hours. Would i work a station, getting 5 hours flying a week? Certainly would. Would i put my time (which i don't have much of working a full time job, in addition to a 2nd job which i'm finishing in a few days) when the info about that job states that the minimum is double the hours i have and that to send a resume in would result in it being disposed of? Nope, i don't mind putting in effort for work, but there are 24 hours in a day.

When the time comes that i have enough in the bank to live off while i pay my dues, i will be hitting the road and open to any honest work.

HA, you suggest working, saving and then hitting the road. I'm not sure when that last opertunity you posted about was on here but if in the last couple of weeks i missed it. I guess this kind of goes to show that what your saying isn't going to waste, some youngsters like myself are receptive to the many varying opinions of people with more exposure to the aviation world.

I do wish those who get the jobs you mention the best of luck. While it is competitive i still don't wish anyone anything bad in order to take opertunites for myself.

Thts my spiel...

[Rich-Fine-Green]

If the new Part 121B rules pass without change - then the 150 - 200 hour CPL will not be enough to get a start; Legally!.

Under the proposed Part 121B (Air Transport under 5700kg);

Single-Engine Day VFR charter will require a minimum of 100 hours PIC (as well as the current 5 hours on class/type).

With most CPL newbies entering the big wide world with 70 hours PIC & 80-100 hours dual - The private op's such as meat Bombing and Station work will suddenly become quite valuable & sort after.

The guys/girls in the box seat will be the ones who completed a 'non-approved course' i.e. have held a PPL for some time and upgraded to a CPL.

:(

[Islander Jock]

The guys/girls in the box seat will be the ones who completed a 'non-approved course' i.e. have held a PPL for some time and upgraded to a CPL.

They've always been more employable anyway. ;)

[Mr. Hat]

RFG. Any idea when the new rules will come in? Sounds like it might make things even harder for people wanting a start.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Mr Hat (Mr Garrison's pal I presume?):

:D

At first glance, it does look like it will make it somewhat harder for new pilots to get a start with a charter - sorry, Air Transport Part 121B company.

On top of that, the operators may be slugged with Class A maintenance for their C182 & extra Check & Training costs etc (most operators will have to outsource to a Part 142 C & T company for their checks!).

As for an implementation date.....I have heard anything from end 2003 to late 2004.

I suggest looking at:

http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/newrules (http://)

If you download the lot, it is several MBs & many hundreds of pages reading - have fun!.

My back-up career as a town drunk is looking more and more attractive.

[Mr. Hat]

RFG. Mr Garrison and I aren't talking at the moment... he's all stressed about starting back at school with Cartman and the gang.....

What is the go from the multi engine perspective? How many hours will be required for that sort of thing.

I haven't looked into it too much (can you tell?) but if this stuff comes in will employees working for a company suddenly not have the legal requirements to work anymore?

Are CASA asking for trouble or what...?

I hope they take their time so I can get some time up.....sick of hanging around Mr Garrison.

[compressor stall]

Cannot find anyone for there?

God almighty, make me an offer. I would almost consider moving back there. The best flying in the world.

Period.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Mr H;

Under the proposed new 121B rules:

A Multi Engine Pilot of anything smaller than a PA31 or 402 will require:

500 hrs experiance of which no less than 150 hrs as PIC under IFR which includes 40 hrs multi-engine. Plus a valid I/R plus, if operating at night, 50 hrs as a pilot at night.

Apart from a very patient company conducting ICUS for a prospective employee - where can a young pilot looking to move onto M/E get the above 150 hours real IFR of which 40 is multi engine?.

This might create a new USA type industry where large numbers of pilots pay to work ICUS.

Also, changes in store for ATPL as well. Under the new Part 61, ATPL candidates will have to complete a flying course in a muti-crew environment at a training school followed by a multi-crew flight test.

Changes to IFR rating: No more renewals, just recency every 90 days plus a flight review every two years. Initial issue must have three approaches (no mandatory NDB?).


Changes to Instructor Rating:

PRIVATE PILOTS WILL BE ALLOWED TO HOLD A BASIC INSTRUCTOR RATING.

No more Grade 1, 2 or 3, just authorisations for specific training. Example, if a really experianced Multi-engine pilot wants to just conduct m/e training then all he/she has to do is complete a basic course plus a 10 hour m/e IRC.

No more IR renewals, just attendance to an educational seminar once every two years or have a flight review.

All Instructors must aquire a Cert. 4 in training/education.


Changes to Night VFR:

Theory Test will be required.

At least 5 hours in the circuit required of wich 2 are solo hours under supervision.

[redsnail]

It looks scarily like a mish mash of UK (old) and JAR rules. Stop it immediately.

[Mr. Hat]

Sorry for Hijacking HA - feel free to express you opinion on this one though :)

RFG - I had an idea it was along those lines. Basically that will end the careers of many pilots including myself. I got some crappy-arty leaflet in the mail about it the other day. As if the industry needs to get any harder for people trying to have a go?

For newbies thinking of shelling out the cash for a pilots licence - forget it - go and do IT or become a doctor.

I'm sure the lawyers are rubbing there hands together for this one.


How do we stop it?... sounds like they have already made their minds up.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

At the risk of sounding melodramatic - I see these changes as the greatest threat to the Aviation Industry.

The impact will go all the way up to the airlines.

Qantas, Virgin et al may well ignore what's happening currently in the small end of town but they risk allowing a future where the future pool of pilots will shrink (if the changes are allowed to happen).

Good for those in the short term - for those pilots waiting in the winds over the next decade.

Wind the clock ahead 10-15 years........

Will a future drastic shortage of G.A. Pilots see the likes of Qantas & Virgin forced to set up their own colleges like Singapore, China Southern & JAL in order to have a pool of pilots to recruit from?.

Then again, As New Zealand looks like it's keeping some sanity in G.A. - Maybe QF & Virgin will use the 'shakey Isles' as a source for experianced pilots in the future.

:D


Mr Hat:

I'm not sure if the industry is already screwed on this one but I will attend the FLOT conference in March. I will also be writing to ministers (like p1ssing on a bushfire).

(also mentioned in D & G reporting points)

BTW: The conference is in Sydney and costs $200.

That pretty much counts out a voice from those with the most to lose.

However, pruners concerned with this obviously have computer access.

They can download the proposals, see how it affects them and send as many (free) terse emails to their favourite Transport Minister as they like.

:mad:

[Jamair]

I seem to remember an email about live, interactive internet based coverage of the FLOT thing.....check with ASA?

The Cert IV requirement will certainly clear the halls of many flying training providers..........

[High Altitude]

As for the forum. It may be a user pays system but fark me...

You would have thought that they might have used a bit of common sense, made the forum in Melbourne either during the Airshow or the Monday after... After all most operators from around Oz get to the airshow. But alas that would save us money. On top of that having to pay to attend SAFE SKIES???

As for the pilot issue, must admit I haven't followed it all to closely. It will make it very hard for everyone involved but more importantly it will make it hard for guys/gals to get a start. Not to mention how many sharks out there will rub there hands together to "sell" ICUS as it will be on of the only ways to get quick hours.

Now I didn't want to be harsh in my initial post but you don't get anywhere in life unless you want to work for it. I can sit here and say that as I have worked hard to get where I am. I don't believe in mummy and daddy funding your liscense, its like anything if you don't work for it you never appreciate it.

People like Radar O'reily deserve a break in the industry it is just unfortunate that circumstances at times don't work out but he will get a job as he has the tenacity to want it.

If you get a sniff or a chance anywhere go for it.

[topend3]

HA, i read with interest your post and some of the points you make are quite valid. there are some who expect everything to fall into their lap and, unfortunately, there are some people who have everything fall into their lap, while those that do the hard yards hopefully make it somewhere.

I am sure it wasn't due to apathy that no-one applied to these jobs you advertised, maybe there aint many pilots up this way at the moment, or none of them are ppruners.

i was once set on a flying career but one thing turned me off, in fact several things and these are all personal reasons, i guess if you want to do it you will make the sacrifices.

Lack of job security, poor working conditions, poor pay, poor living conditions, lack of return on investment in licenses etc, having to live apart from partner for extended periods of time are all reasons why one may not like to apply for a position with a ga company in a remote location, knowing they may clear $300 a week if they are lucky while trying to repay loans and just get by.

I am glad I left my flying as a pleasure activity and can continue to work in the industry, set goals and earn twice as much as a poor ga pilot, i feel sorry for ga pilots, they deserve better.

if you don't have 350-400TT in Darwin, you find it hard to get anywhere at all, and when you do get there you get treated like ****. and i am not whining because i couldn't get a job up here either, i CHOSE freely to go with another side of the industry.

you shouldn't sprout your hard luck story to everyone cos no-one will apply for your jobs, i know people who have been in darwin for months and are still looking, maybe if more ga operators treated pilots like human beings people wouldn't be turned off.

all good points though and makes for interesting discussion...

cheers

[High Altitude]

No hard luck story here 3.

The jobs I tried to fill were from friends in PVT category. One was a station job, the other a meat bombing job.

Generally it is not hard to find pilots, although finding quality pilots can be a challenge.

I commend your decision to do what you have done and to keep your flying as a hobby.

Until GA is a LEVEL playing field then conditions will never improve. It is very hard to compete against funded airlines and those that speak the word of god. Its not impossible but it is tough. I've been in the game for a while now and my attitude has sure changed towards alot of things - believe it or not I would love to see GA drivers get more for their investment. Problem is that in todays industry it aint gunna happen until the majors are cracked.

I've done my time in the bush and as they say I loved every bit of it. My first boss actually never paid me! No I didn't work for free as I was under the understanding I was getting paid, I learnt my lesson very early.

As you said 3 it is a personal decision on wether or not to make a sacrifice although I do agree that it is a single mans venture...

[topend3]

agreed ha, it all comes down to what you value more in life, and it does make it hard with a partner, especially if you have to live remote, flying is a great thing, and the best thing is you can always enjoy your flying even if you don't do it for a living, which can make it more enjoyable!!!

pity it's so bloody expensive to hire an a/c in darwin tho, need some competition in that area, must be a market for it...

:D :D

[radar o'reilly]

Sorry to direct my previous rant straight at you HA, I think the way this thread has progressed has helped me understand what you were getting at.

I think I speak for all newbies when I say that the collective patience doesn't get any thinner. Most newbies I know, between 150TT and 200TT are feeling nothing short of despair.

I don't doubt for a second that all pilots in front of us have felt the same pain, but it just doesn't take the edge off.

I don't want pity and I dont want a flat handout. I just worked hard to fund and get my credentials, and flying is what it's all about. There are also blokes out there who were "family-funded" and maybe they believe what HA said. The Silver Spoon theory I guess. I don't want to be grouped with them, that's all.

I know blokes have done it longer, but 3 years is a long line-up. I know my ship will come in eventually. :)

[Aussiebert]

it almost looks liek it will be of benifit to maximise the number of hours it takes to finish training, rather then minimise it.

If buying an extra 30 hours of solo time is needed then so be it. Time is money and given enough time the extra hours can be taken care of

[OpsNormal]

If buying an extra 30 hours of solo time is needed then so be it. Time is money and given enough time the extra hours can be taken care of

AussieB, it may sound callous, but be rather carefull how you spend your money in that way......

Fact is, when you get to around 5-700 odd hours and you are looking at moving onto twins within your organisation, you may be held back somewhat if you don't have an instrument rating (or at least a current one, or indeed one that is not long out of currency), and perhaps around 100hrs multi to satisfy insurance requirements.

All the night hours (especially multi), you can do at the moment are of paramount importance. I'd also look at training up as much as you can and do your CPL test in a twin. I know I'll get flamed for recommending this by some, but at the moment in my company I'm in just that dilemma. I fall about 15-20 multi (day or night), hours short, but I've been told I'll be able to do ICUS (and NO kids I don't have to pay for it), so that will be a fantastic bonus for me, but I have to wait until such a time as loads/ supervisory pilot availability/ and of couse the a/c availability all coincide together. That, I can certainly do.

The game that we have all gotten into is extrordinarily expensive, but much like the share market it is the "shares that you buy within yourself" that help you make the grade.

Radar, you know, thinking back I had probably 5-10 kg on ya when I went-a-meatbombing, so I reckon you've been fed a bucketload of Bollocks by whoever thought you'd listen to them. We could always name them here....... ;) No-one can say that to date you haven't given it one hell of a go. How's the "new" life? I'll give yer a buzz over the weekend to catch-up if you're gonna have yer mobile on. :D

Regards,
OpsN.

[the wizard of auz]

C"mon guys n gals, wake up and smell the roses!!! I justsaw a CFI/CP job advertised for around the 50K mark.....who in their right mind is going to do that........I know I know, some one would and plenty would love the job, but lets face facts. 5 out of 100 applicants are going to land the dream job and one day go on and be a 744 driver and earn the dollars they deserve, but what happens to the other 95??????.we end up trying to eek out a living in GA, thats what. now if 50K is the best your going to get after years of hard work and dedication to the industry (god knows why) not to mention the initial hardships and cost of the licence, do ou really think its going to be worth it. can you raise a family and buy a house and be garanteed job security and be a happy little vegimite on 50K????. Knowing that the best job your eventually going to get in GA is going to be a CFI or CP and knowing that the moneys as bad as it is why would ya? and dont kid yerself into thinking that the love of flying is going to conquer all......it wont, when you get to around the 5000hrs mark and are still driving a heap of sh!t and living in rented accomadation, you will wake up and relize what a waste its all been, and how you wish you could live in your own house with your own family and drive to work in your current model car.
I KID YOU NOT. the only reason I stay in aviation is because I ow the business and get good returns in the market niche I have developed for my self, burt I want out eventually and I am fortunate enough to own my own aircraft so I can fly when I like, but believe me boys and gals, if your one of the 95, get a real job and hire or buy a share in your weekend flyer and live like a normal wage (almost all are better than you can expect in GA) earning person with a boat and car and weekends off and BBQs with freinds without having to worry about yopur beer money comming out of the rent, having the ability to send your kids to a private school and all that stuff.
the only people I know of that are happy in GA are owners of the company or single people that havnt woken up to the fact that they might not make the 5.
GA sux and most GA operaters are out there waiting to prey on you young unfortunates who havnt woken up yet or think your in the count for a left hand seat in something big.

>RANT OVER<

[puff]

Wiz couldn't have said it ANY better.....should put that in the glossy brochure at the flying schools! Everyone always points out the 5% of guys that 'make' it, and EVERYONE thinks thats gunna be them, sad fact is not everyone can be in that 5%. The industry lives on dreams...

As ya said wiz whats the point of striving to be the best you can be in GA on 50K a year when you can work in retail and at the upper end of working at woolies or coles be on more than that....with the inital outlay of a 45c stamp not $40K of training.....everyone laughs about flipping burgers at maccas, bet there are a lot of people working at maccas with more job security and pay than half the guys in GA..pretty sad!

[topend3]

couldn't agree more with the sentiments in the above two posts, well said guys

[OzExpat]

So, wiz, have ya sobered up yet? :D

Spot-on post, BTW!

[the wizard of auz]

I was for a little while Ozex, but then I remembered what I do for a living and opened another can. :D

[The_Hun.]

Wizard- The truest words I have read on these pages for a long time, well done. The sad part is the fact that every single word of your post is true:(
Now where is that macas?? Time to make some money!!

[Aussiebert]

OpsNormal:

I would really rather not have to, but what i am saying is that if it was a requirement, in the legal sence, then i would (like most others) pay for the extra hours. I wouldn't like it but if i had to i would.

Its all good and weel to say 'i better save myself for when i hit 500 hours' but thats not going to do any good if you don't get to 500 hours. There are chananges to be met long before reaching that level of experience and its not possible to sit back and think things will sort themselves out

[OpsNormal]

AussieB, I wasn't having a go at ya mate, quite the opposite. If only you knew just how short a time has elapsed since my first real break in the industry...... :D

I didn't say... save your$$ for when you are around 500hrs, what I meant was spend it as wisely as you could at this stage. I'm not into throwing $$ away either, but I fall just short of the insurance requirements on one of the twins my company operates at the moment (multi PIC hours), so I cannot fly it by myself yet.

I've been incredibly lucky, but a lot of it I've had to make for myself, but I've also had/have a boss that believes in me and pushed me a bit when I needed it, too. :)

Regards,
OpsN.

[the wizard of auz]

Hey opsnormal, tell MC I said G'day. :)

[Knulp]

Well said wiz times they are a changin'

I can tell you apart from the munny airline staff arent all the happy little vegemites they make out to be either.
Theres plenty of bastardry goin on there too, been there done that you dont know whats behind the masons apron until you wear one.

I was lucky to be in GA neeeeaaaarly 40 years ago and the munny was good enough to eek out a living and it wernt bad fun.
It appears they are using the same planes today and payin the same wages, hate to say this but yes Woolies is a better option IF... you have any doubts about your ability to put up with some of the meanest bastardss God ever blew breath into.

[Northern Chique]

Well said wiz! Hey and I could say open a can for me, but hell, out of aviation, I can afford a good scotch these days!!! :D

HA, I offered to come play but you wouldnt have me... :p flying that is! tooooooo many hours... go figure

The bias is just as prevalent over the 1000 hour mark. Everyone automatically assumes that no one wants to fly singles after the 1000 hours or so, but how wrong they'd be!

I got into flying for fun, went to CPL because it was fun, and when it stopped being fun and risking passengers lives I got out! If I had the right firm to go to, I would fly for fun again! Or to word it slightly better, I took myself and my career very seriously, but I thoroughly enjoyed what I did; twin, single or turbine twin.

[Knulp]

Now you just keep patchin up the boys an gurls in Tennant Creek NC.
:}

[Northern Chique]

hehe knulps........

there appears to be a long line of patch-em-ups to do in Tennant Creek!......... hang on.....we patch-em-up,......they go halfway down the line..... get into a fight and get back in the line again!

Got me work cut out here for a year... and Ive done my bush time :D again!!!!!! I must be gullable or somethin' I keep getting that "bush time".... now whered I put my scotch........ :p

I reakon best of luck to those who get the job they want, manage to hold their integrity together and get to where ever it is they want to be..... Hats off to you...

But my advice to all the city tarmac dwellers who wont go bush......... get in the dammed car and drive! Its great fun, you meet the best mates making tracks for yourself, and you learn how to deal with life itself, not just handle an airplane in the dust... Hopefully they already taught you how to do that.

Its the total experience in this huge land of ours which offers so much to those who dare to begin to look and learn. Whether you end wind up tossing meatbombs out in Queensland, chasing cows out west, charters around Mount Isa to Bungling in the Kimberly, you made an effort and thats what counts. No resume on the desk can count as much as a face at the door.

[slice]

Well that's one way of putting it!

[portredleftonshelf]

tend to agree with original post. where i work the amount of young guys that think theyll get that new cpl and get a job, as one put it sitting in a lounge chair pushing buttons, are in for an incredible shock. guys now days have no drive to hassel an employer, and networking is severly lacking. remember while i was trainging for cpl old man, who is not in aviation, said that effective career progression comes from an ability to NETWORK effectively. thats what it all comes down to, and that holds true for any industry, particularly aviation.

i also find though that alot of employers have a great deal of contempt for new job seekers and that is wrong. have they forgotten those first job seeking efforts of door knocking. the fact that you rock up some where and ask an employer in the face ' have you got any jobs going, im willing to do anything' if nothing else shows guts. have only worked for one employer out of five that took the time to chat to these guys, even if they werent looking. some had driven thousands of kms.

but then, thats the industry., its a bitch where only the most resilient survive.

[Ang737]

Well said Port,

I guess comptempt is a strong but just way of putting how some operator treat ambitious and usually dedicated pilots. I would like to hear from operators and their thoughts on that. Do they show this condescension because once bitten twice shy and if so thats unjust.

If someone is going to have the guts and determination to get together a resume and front up at your door with the obvious drive to succeed why not give them a go if you have jobs going. Remember that you were once in the same boat.

So am I disillusioned to what the state of the industry is for a bare CPL trying for a break or am I correct in saying what I have. I am one of these low time guys itching to get a break and benefit from experience but its a catch 22 most of the time. You need the experience to get the job but where do you get the experince

Ang ;)

[Rich-Fine-Green]

There have always been a few rotten sods in G.A.

Eons ago when I started my first door knock tour of Australia - I came across some real mean sods who didn't have to go out of their way to be mean.

The majority did however act human and some even gave me a cuppa with a scotch finger biscuit.

Now that I'm the one reading CV's, I don't forget what I went thru.

Don't give up, Keep knocking on doors and showing your face.

Hint: Don't forget to put an email/hotmail etc. when you send out a batch of C.V's.

;)

[Aussiebert]

I'm sure of one thing, i'd rather be in the 95% that didn't make it then the x number of wishing they'd tried.

I'm just glad the things that make me happy in life (other then flying) don't cost me a cent... in fact a lot of the time i get paid for the privilage of doing something i love. It may not be aviation but its still something.

I'm not sure if being willing to accept that things may not work out is the same as not being enthusiastic, its just a good defence against ending up jaded like so many seem to be.

Now after all that, if anyone knows anything going at skydiving places round south east QLD i'd love to know, or even ANY info at all bout the people/operators around i'd love to know.