Emirates Advice to Stay Or Go!!

[ott]

I am in the fortunate position of holding rank of Captain with a UK Charter company and for those of you who are out of work I apologise for my pontificating as I am already holding a post that to most would seem enviable.
Emirates have offered me a position of First Officer. I have a wife and kids. For those guys there or indeed who have just made the decision can you enlighten me on your decision making process.
Any regrets and if so what. I am hoping that you all had similar apprehensive thoughts. I would appreciate those thoughts.
Many Thanks

[Lavdumperer]

Emirates is a modern and expanding airline - one of the few in the world that is still growing. I have heard that Dubai is a very modern and progressive city (by Middle East standards) with a large British expatriate community - great for wife and kids - probably good schools. Add on to that interesting routes and very advanced aircraft (777s!). The alternative is to stay in a contracting British airline industry where sorrow is pervasive and wages seem to be reduced annually.... Also, scheduled flying is probably preferred to erratic charter flying - right?

A few questions for you:

1. Any idea about aircraft type for training for you - A330/40 or 777? Have they assigned you to a type - which would you prefer?

2. Have you seen the Airliner World mag for January (or Feb)? Evidently there is an article about Emirates pilots converting onto the 777 - it may be of interest to you...

Good luck - I'd prefer the dry desert oasis to the cold rain any day!

[ott]

Thanks Lavdumperer for the info ref Airliner World. Good article. For me its the B777.
Would like so info though from those that made the move.

[mutt]

ott,


With all due respect to Lavdumperer, he doesnt work for EK nor does he live in the Middle East. I strongly suggest that you post this question in the Middle East forum seeking answers from EK drivers.

Mutt.

[Wet Power]

Decision is totally yours to make - you probably know the answer already.

And yes - I have been through the selection board recently.

No problems working for the airline - very little to fault.

Do you want to live in Dubai for the next 20/30 years?

Where are you going to go if you need to come home 'cos you (or more likely) the wife and/or kids don't like it or are too far from mother/granny?

Were you happy with the accomodation?

Will you not mind going on trips that disappear for several days? Trips will be getting longer as they introduce the A340s to stateside destinations.

Can u suffer 48 Celsius for four months in the summer?

Best of luck.

[G.Khan]

Have worked a long time in the Middle East and the last time left the Charter World to do it. Never looked back!:)

ott - Given the uncertainty of the charter world you really don't, IMHO, have much of a decision to make. By moving to EK you will be making a quantum leap for you and your family that will remain with you for the rest of your lives. Dubai is a great place, only 7 hours from EGLL, EK are a good and expanding airline. Your kids will benefit from an excellent education and if you send them to board in the UK, when they are old enough, they will go to quality schools you could only dream about if you stayed with Charter. Wives, generally, (but not always), prefer the ME to the Far East. As an expat. your social life is usually far more interesting than the UK, (my experience, anyway).

I found that going long-haul in the ME was far less tiring than Charter in and around Europe, yes, a few days away followed by some quality time off with the family in a place where you can really make use of it. The temperature does go to the high thirties/low forties, on average, for four months but your family will acclimatise.
Financially you won't look back and will eventually retire much further up the financial tree.

If you find that after five or ten years you want to go back then you can and still get a job, but don't expect Emirates to still be making you offers to join them in five or ten years time!

If you can correspond with people now working for Emirates who have been there long enough to make an objective assessement it would be all the better.

Best of Luck.

[wagtail23]

...you need to know what lies behind the show that is put on for you during the interview.

Example: no choice in fleet type you get.

accommodation the largest pain you will ever come across

schools good, no doubt

Dubai NOT the New Hong Kong the locals like to think

you will either love it or hate it, or learn to endure it.............the choice is yours in the end

[Count von Altibar]

Not all it seems to be in my view. Think very carefully before making the long term move there. If you have a good job in your home country then think of the long term.

[Ghostflyer]

So Count, whats that based upon, your experience as the resident EK wide-bodied expert? I see a few months ago you were looking at whether or not you could get a direct entry command with QR.

Seems that you have an axe to grind with EK and would prefer Doha to Dubai and the QR package vs EK. A real sound thinker if ever I saw one. When did you fail the EK interview?;)

[White Knight]

Having left a position as a training captain at BA to become an FO at EK - all I can say is BEST MOVE I ever made. Another command in 2-3 years, sunshine nearly every day, kids LOVE it here, NO GORDON BROWN to rob me blind. All I can say OTT is come on in - the waters warm (nearly)

[skidoo_driver]

ott:

I would give my left nut to be able to go to Dubai. I had an interview three years ago and was offered a job. I enthusiastically accepted. I was employed by a major North American airline at the time. I was so excited about moving there - it is a wonderful opportunity.

My personal situation prevented me from going - my hands were tied. In hindsight, it may have been a blessing - I'd probably be dead of drink by now if events had so transpired after having made the move. It's a consideration, to be sure.

Today, I am a captain at that same airline. If my personal situation would allow it, would I still consider EK - absolutely! I would be a speck on the horizon if I could. I'll always regret having missed the opportunity. I guess in the end it'll be your own gut feeling that makes your decision. For what it's worth, I say GO! Be gone! Never look back.

Best of luck,

skidoo

[Katoi]

White Knight

With the greatest respect, what you failed to say was that:

1, You have only just arrived. Perhaps to early to judge every aspect.

2, You were about to lose your command at BA anyway.

Apart from that good luck!!

[White Knight]

Katoi
1- may have only just arrived, but if the family are happy that does it for me. Besides I have no complaints about accomodation or anything else. I knew what I was coming to when I signed the contract.
2- Debatable (is that spelt right ??). What is for sure is how BALPA screwed some of us ex CFE people !!!!

Believe me I'm more than happy to have made the move.

[bullshot]

but do you want your kids to be pouting little expatriates? Sadly thats what happens to some of them

[twieke]

Well,

I' m joining in May and looking forward to it !!!

Regards,
Twieke.

[Count von Altibar]

Perhaps some people with very 'blinded' view of Emirates. They are of course a good carrier and are expanding rapidly. Nice aircraft arriving all the time. Only thing is the pay is crap until your about a year 7 captain and living in Dubai can be very trying at times. Emirates is a good job, but it's definitely not as good as we're led to believe.

[druckmefunk]

White Knight,
It is always nice to hear positive comments from positive people. I think everyone brings a nice pair of rose colored glasses when they come to Dubai, I know i certainly did. But after a couple of years reality sets in. Many of us here are now just biding our time, waiting for our hours to build so that if and when better paying jobs, that allow us to go home, present themselves, we will be off like a shot. Consider the following and let me know if you will still be happy.

1. You are queue jumped by a direct entry captain.

2. You were lied to about the profit share and on arrival told that "sorry we have changed the rules and you now need to be here 12 months instead of 6 before you get any profit share. You reply "but when i signed my contract, the rules said only 6 months", they reply "yes we know, sorry but thats how it goes".

3. Your accomodation is across the other side of town from the only school that you are lucky enough to find a space in for your child. Then you have to spend around 2 hours per day in traffic dropping off and picking up kids. Not to mention the waitning time because the said school has up to three different pick up times for your children, and it is not feasible to get home and back in between. You ask to be shifted to a more suitable location and are offered the 95000dhs accom allowance and told go ahead. Unfortunately, a Villa will cost upwards of 120000dhs, plus water and electricity, in the areas where the schools are.

4. The same school coincidentally has fees that are far outside what the company covers. You say "This was the only school that had a space, can you help with the fees". They say "Yes we know, sorry but thats how it goes".

5. You enroll your child at said school in KG1, because that is when the company starts paying for education, and half way through the year they say "Sorry, we have just applied a different interpretation to the education policy and we no longer will cover your school fees this year". You say, "But you covered them last year, and you should have told us before we enrolled our children". They say "yes we know, sorry but that's the way it goes".

6. You are forced take your leave in at least 2 blocks, and try to get on an Emirates aircraft at 2 AM with your young family on an ID90 and can't because the aircraft are always full and there are 800 pilots and their families more senior to you, so you say "It doesn't seem reasonable that i am forced to take my holidays in 2 blocks, but only get one annual leave ticket". They say "yes we know, sorry but that's how it goes".

I could go on and on , but i am sure you get the gist. When i arrived i was told about all the things the guys before me had, like club memberships etc. I thought well that would have been nice, but things have changed and i am happy with the package that i have been offered. The problem is that the "package" is constantly being chipped away. You should be aware that we have no contract here. Our conditions can and are changed continually, (never for the better) with no consultation or right of appeal.

All of the above is fact, except for the bit about direct entry captains. I mentioned it because once again there are many rumours starting to surface. Some people have said to me that they are fact, but i have not heard that from any source that i would call authoritive. But my experience here tells me that where there is smoke there is fire. Additionally, it makes sense for the following reason.

Late last year our DFO cut the pay and conditions of our training captains significantly. As a result, they are having great difficulty recruiting more training captains. This is not a problem on the 777 as we are not expanding that fleet at present. On the 330 however, we are getting 11 aircraft which would need 22 training captains, and also 88 line captains and 176 F/O's. It is feasible that due to the lack of training captain applicants, we may not be able to train all these people. Given our DFO's penchant for finding scapegoats, i feel that he may float the idea of DEC's to cover his mistake of pi$$ing off the entire training department. It will be something along the lines of "Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but due to the lack of suitable training captain applicants, i have been forced to accept direct entry captains". Then he will refer again to UAL and warn us that if we dont lift our game, and work harder for less, we could end up in the same situation".

My parting shot goes something like this.

I am quite happy that i made the decision to come here. Emirates has been good for me simply because i was one of they many lucky ones who got a quick command on a modern widebody. This will enable me to go searching for a more suitable job at the earliest opportunity, which will in turn allow me to take my family back home, which is where we all want to be.

If you do the numbers the future is not so rosy. We have just over 750 pilots now, with around 900 by years end. At present the corporate plan is to have 100 aircraft by 2010. We run 8 crews per aircraft, so that will be 800 Captains by 2010, give or take a few extra because of management pilots and extra crews on the 340. It follows then that if you join later this year, you may not get a command until 2010. F/O salaries have not gone up in real terms in over 10 years. I can assure you, you will not be happy facing the prospect of 6 or more years in DXB on an F/O's salary.

It is always possible that Emirates will announce another massive expansion which will accelerate commands again. It does not appear that this is likely though as the airport is at capacity now. They are adding 2 new terminals exclusively for emirates use, to cater for the fleet size of 100, which will again put the airport at max capacity. Already to achieve just this, the runways have to be moved to allow Simops. There are plans for a new airport at Jebel Ali. Until this is announced and has a date attached to it, i dont think you will here about any more massive expansions within emirates.

So to all you wannabee Emirates dudes, come over and have a look. You will find a great bunch of blokes to work with, good weather, reasonable pay, a nice lifestyle and a very impressive soft sell from the recruiting guys. Just don't be fooled into thinking that all is as it seems. Give yourself a few days and talk to as many of the guys as you can. You will find a great cross section of views. Certainly not everyone shares my views. Some love it here and never plan to leave. Some hate it and can't wait to leave. I'm somehwere in the middle. I dont hate it, I dont love it, i just recognise that it has been worth my while coming here, but i would like to leave at the earliest opportunity.


DMF

[White Knight]

DMF - I've certainly not come out here with rose coloured specs!!!
I think you'll find that people joining now haven't come for the money (what money ??) or to get rich. I certainly haven't. I've come here so my family can live somewhere decent and not in grimy, dank crappy UK.
Oh yes, the school that my children go to is about a 30 minute roundtrip, and they do come out at different times of day. BUT we don't have a problem with that. The kids need schooling, simple.
You did mention the one thing that would be a real pisser and that's direct entry captains. Will they or won't they ?? We'll have to wait and see.
Other than that it's pretty much as I expected - any where you go the company you work for is going to take the piss. I'd rather have the piss taken here than elsewhere.

Bullshot - kids only grow into pouting little expats if their parents let them. Have you had a bad experience with other peoples pouting little kids ??

[druckmefunk]

White Knight

Fair enough.

DMF

[Bigmouth]

I was wondering why nobody is mentioning the possibility of the (fairly) cushy situation at EK being blown to smithereens. They are after all sitting right in the middle of the biggest powderkeg the world has seen since ´39.
You do all keep an eye on world events these days, and don´t really believe that if the sh*t really hits the fan, liberal old UAE won´t be affected?

[drygin7]

Hi guys,


Thinking of joining emirates?

We have a very radical director of flight ops, with old fashion management style. Disciplinary actions for everything and the encouragement of a reporting system, where Pilots report Pilots and junior flight att. are reporting seniors and pursers are reporting Pilots. He is trying very hard to destroy the motivation and the loyalty of his staff.
Rules and regulations do only apply for staff and not for the management. They reserve the right to do what they want to do, and believe me they are doing what they want to do.
Seniority for upgrades is non-existent. The A-330 fleet bypasses the whole B777 fleet. Bad luck for those sitting on the B-777 at the moment. If you on the Airbus you will get your upgrade in less than one year. If you are on the B-777 it will take you up to 4 years. Bypass pay? Are you joking or what? We are making so much profit this year that we cannot effort something like this! The attitude of the management is “take it or leave it” and you no what, they can afford it because you out their might also need a job. So what does this mean for new guys? About 7 years in the right hand seat. So be prepared that you will not be able to save a lot of money as first officer
Dubai is very nice and offers a lot of activities and a nice but expansive lifestyle. It is family friendly and the schooling is also good. Due to the bad usd exchange rate you lose about 20 % of your salary. By the end of the day you will recognise that emirates is just another airline and nothing more. Don’t expect the golden camel when you arrive or apply.
Furthermore emirates are looking into DE Capt. So if you hold an A-330 command wait a little bit and than join as DE. Bad for us and good for your guys out their with no job.

The amount of empty promises is breaking the sound barrier at the moment.
Emirates is still a good company with nice people, a strange culture and a unique management.

What Mr.Druckmefunk said about us is 99% the truth. Thanks for taking so much time and tell the truth.

All the best anyway for all those who will join.

[loungelizard]

Dont tell me that our dear brother T C K has made the thread yet again. !!!!!!!!!!!

[brownoser]

A few things worth considering when coming to DXB:
1) Get the biggest *******car/4x4 you can afford as it WILL save your life one day. The driving is scary and definitely dangerous.
2) Keep an eye out for your kids especially in their teens as there are bad elements out here probably due to the lack of after school activities.
3) For any sports, music and interests outside of normal schooling expect to pay for it (sometimes quite pricey). Schools do not provide a lot of extra cirricular activities.
4) Do respect the local customs as the authorities do not take kindly to any remarks about their faith or culture. Think before you speak especially when around locals.
5) If you are even considering driving after one drink.....give it up as the police will throw the book at you and lock you up. This stay at the Dubai gaol can be anywhere from one month or more.
6) Try and keep out of the company rumour mill as it will only make you bitter and twisted in a short span of time. Spend time with your loved ones instead.
MOVE TO EMIRATES......DEFINITELY!! :D

Hey drygin7, I think the gin has pickled your brain mate as I cannot recall anyone getting an A330 command in under one year. Maybe there are a secret group of pilots we don't know about....stealth A330 captains maybe???? Try and check out your sources before submitting it next time. :eek:

[zzz]

Whiteknight,

It is interesting that in your original post you led us to believe that you were a BA Training Captain. It later transpired that in fact you were a City Flyer Express training captain who had got his BA command by default during the takeover. Presumably you were not one of the magic fifty who are to transfer to the 737.
I think your posts would be more credible if you cut out the B...S...

cheers

zzz

[White Knight]

Z's

I'm pretty certain that my last couple of years payslips with BA showed that I was indeed a BA training captain, with a mainline contract, pay and seniority number. Oh yes and that did include the job of training pilots from other BA fleets onto my old type.
Yes I was ex CFE, and for your information I first applied to EK about four and a half years ago. LONG before any takeover of CFE was happening by BA. Do you also mean to say that all the old Dan Air and B-Cal trainers - who became trainers at BA are also not "REAL"
It's a pity you seem to be suffering from a serious bunch of very sour grapes.
I far prefer living and working in DXB to that ****ehole back in UK. I also was very unimpressed with the way BA works, but that's by the by.

I'm so sorry if you don't think I "cut the mustard", but I think you're on your own there.

In future try keeping your petty jealosy to yourself.

[zzz]

Whiteknight,

I was just pointing out that your original post was misleading. The originator of this thread was asking for advice about giving up a good left hand seat job in the UK for a co-pilot job in Dubai, a pleasant enough place I agree.
You rightly said you were a BA Training Captain, well done. In my opinion you should have qualifyed it with the full story. This guy is trying to make a big decision, you have not helped. Nothing personal, definately no jealousy.

cheers

zzz

[AA717driver]

Cut to the chase. What is FO pay for 7 years(GBP or USD, please;) )? What is the Capt. pay and retirement?

The way the US industry is going, how bad could it be? Thanks in advance.TC

[drygin7]

I hope that you are right and I am wrong about the upgrades.
My sources are those people who are doing their upgrade in one year time and they are doing their courses. Maybe we are working for different companys.
Dont worry I dont drink and my brain is clear. If you tell me that this is not the case, you are making me happy. But what are those pilots doing on their upgrade courses?
Maybe you should also first check your sources before you get emotional about other rumours.
You should not forget that this is also just a rumour network and your davice was to stay out of the company rumour mill. All rumours are from the same source, from us PILOTS. So I wonder what you are doing in this rumour network. You might should follow your own advice and stay out of the RN.

I still hope that you are right and I am wrong?

[thegypsy]

White Knight If you are going to be pedantic about spelling then 'accommodation' is how it is spelt .

G.Khan As to your suggestion that they can send offspring to boarding schools in UK,then it is not possible on EK salary,as it means keeping a house available for all the exeats, half-terms and tickets back and forth all cost money over and above the free one. The only way IMHO for these kind of jobs being worthwhile is to have no overheads in UK ie let your house out otherwise all your money will soon go.

I have seen guys come away from the Gulf after 10years+ with nothing in the Bank as they get carried away with luxury cars ,boats ,and holidays. One needs to have financial goals and stick rigidly to them.

Also it seems to me that far too many Pilots are joining EK hoping for quick commands,and what with longer sectors requiring more F/O's than Captains not all aspirations in that area will be met.
For a young F/O to join is an easy decision but for an experienced Captain to join as an F/O and start all over again is not one to be taken lightly.

[G.Khan]

druckmefunk I think your statement that:

" which will in turn allow me to take my family back home, which is where we all want to be."

probably says a lot more than you have in the rest of your post?

thegypsy

What rot! I have known dozens of families who have not felt it necessary to keep a house/flat going in the home country where the kids are educated, Mum may go back to pick them up and then take them back, that is an ID90% or a leave ticket, no where near the cost of a house, others have been taken care of by other relatives at home and put on/met from flights. Those families that have kept a house for their use in the UK, for example, usually have other reasons, like they don't have any long term plans to stay overseas anyway and if Mum stays with the kids Dad won't be tempted to stay overseas any longer than it takes to find another job.
Pity that in just about every post you make you only have a very negative point of view, obviously working overseas doesn't/didn't suit you?

[thegypsy]

G.Khan You obviously know nothing about the cost of Boarding school fees in UK.Then again you are in Australia so why should you?? Not of course that it stops you spouting off on the subject!

Get off your high horse and calm down is my advice to you.These days boarding schools have exeats ,long half terms,and joining EK or anyone else these days is usually a long term committment . Sure if you have long suffering close relatives who don't mind your offspring being foisted on them all the time then it might work,but as I said before to make these jobs worthwhile IMHO you need to have no costs back home . As for ID90 travel that is getting more and more problematical. Maybe you are retired now G.Khan and therefore no longer in the loop I suspect??

[G.Khan]

ott - Just wondering, have you made your decision yet?

thegypsy A pom retired to Australia and whose sister is the head mistress of a girls boarding school in the UK so not that far out of the loop. 'Spouting Off" indeed! pot kettle and black spring to mind. You tend to paint a very negative picture and I try and inject a bit of reality, that's all.

[Quebecer]

These girly fights are pretty pathetic. I'm going to bed.:yuk:

[Tandemrotor]

EK - As has been said earlier, "just another airline!"

Since all the attractions that used to be a pull, ie. great salary, early commands, etc seem now to have been factored out of the equation. EK sounds no better or worse than many. Perhaps the lack of labour protections, may make some stay away.

As far as life in the sandpit is concerned : Dubai, great place, I love popping there for the weekend, take in a bit of sun and nightlife, then drive the two Rolls Royce back to 'Dear old Blighty' for a stroll down the pub and a warm frothy beer, in front of a log fire.

This grimy, dank, crappy, sh*****le, feels SO much like home.

White Knight; zzz, was correct, which presumably is why you are so touchy on the subject.

ott; pays yer money, takes yer choice! How much do you like warm frothy beer?

[White Knight]

TR - I'm not touchy at all. Whatever was happening at BA wouldn't have changed my desire to come and live here. Please feel free to ask my old colleagues on the RJ who've known that I was trying to get to EK for a long, long time before BA even considered buying Cityflyer.
Besides - if I'd stayed at BA I could have kept my command on the RJ at BHX or MAN, or failing to WANT to do that I'd have still had training captains pay. Not exactly a big deal. Well, if you like dark, dank Blighty you're welcome. Everyone's entitled to their view.
ZZZ's - do you know me ? The guy starting the thread asked for an opinion, and I gave it. Bullsh1t ? No.

[Tandemrotor]

White Knight

You are absolutely right. Everyone is entitled to their view. I have lived the expat life (albeit in the World's first Air Force!) and I am now, very content to be in the place that I feel is home, (that feeling for me is priceless) rather than patching lives together across the globe.

You have recently arrived in the Arab world, and not surprisingly are very keen. Good on yer!

All I am saying is; the shine of new places, can, and usually does, wear off after a period. As alluded to by previous posters from your new company.

Also, perhaps you do have to get away from this grimy, dank, crappy, sh******le, to appreciate what it offers. We Brits are experts at slagging ourselves off!

Good luck to you. Personally, I have had a gutfull of the longhaul lifestyle. I found it quite lonely, and coincidentally, expect to take one of the RJ jobs at BHX (that you didn't want,) because it's even closer to home! I have no illusions about the aircraft, but at the end of the day, it's not what you fly, but WHERE you fly that is the important thing! (It's also the best paid shorthaul job in BA - but of course, that's neither here nor there!)

The expat lifestyle is good, but it rarely lasts a lifetime. If you aren't already thinking "what comes next," I really think you should.

Beware that, in a couple of years time, your triumphalism at leaving your homeland behind, doesn't come back and bite you in the bum!

ott, have you made your mind up yet?

[White Knight]

TR - I see you actually think the same way as me. Absolutely it's not what you fly but WHERE. That is why my views are as they are.
I have indeed lived the expat lifestyle for many years, both as a child and during my flying career. Can't say I ever missed the UK. Good luck in Brum.

;)

I personally think the 146 RJ is a fantastic aeroplane, what it lacks in performance it makes up for in style. Enjoy flying it, I did.

[brownoser]

Hey drygin7,
Firstly, good on you for not drinking. Secondly, if you know of anyone doing their upgrade courses and completing it within a year of joining EK I would be interested in the numbers. Apart from a couple of flight ops managers who came as direct entry captains/managers I cannot recall anyone who has upgraded in that one year timeframe. Thirdly, I don't get emotional, I just get even :ok:

[XL5]

Play the game of substituting CX for EK, Hong Kong for Dubai and knock ten years off the date. Consider the parallels:

A major airline undergoing fleet expansion with robust hiring and rapid upgrades, at least for those already there although not necessarily for the new joiners. A bunch of expat pilots all requiring the social support and infrastructures of accommodation, schools, clubs etc that come at increasingly steep prices partially funded by the goodwill of the company from company coffers. A signed contract which sets in concrete the conditions of service which are nevertheless sadly subject to amendment, at first with apology, then as a regrettable necessity and finally as standard practice. No union representation of pilot interests effectively allowing management shepherds to round the sheep up as they see fit, best hope that the good shepherd doesn’t pay too much interest in you because we all know what the welly boots are there for don’t we?

Different airlines, different places, different times. It could of course be smooth sailing from this point on but history does tend to repeat itself. Buyer beware?

[Hey]

Wassup, getting furloughed from American Airlines, I'm a single dad ( Superdad). Putting in apps. with emirates, coming to visit this summer. I'm Scandinavian, so no ties to the US, What does the former US airline guys there think, or are there any?
How's life at BA? Fly you every time I go home Love your Flight Attendants And Gate Agents, very cust. serv. oriented, can't say the same about ours. But then, look at our former CEO. Ignorance rolls downhill.

[A.FLOOR]

Would someone please post the EK salary information for

Year 1/2/3 FO's
Year 1/2/3 Capt's

Thanks

[ott]

Well many thanks to you all for the postings.
I did turn the job down and whilst we all have our own reasoning mine is this.
I want to live in a house of my choosing. Where I want to live with the number of bedrooms that I want. That may sound pompous to some however we are not talking a few months here we are talking several years.
A friend employed by Emirates told me that the rosters were very good and balanced and that he was only away for approximately 15 days per month. That to me equates to half the month which is also half the year. Yes it is spread out but with two young children 6 months away a year is a long time.
Salaries have not increased in several years. Why?
School fees have increased at some schools dramatically if you can get in at all!!
Life is not about money. If you are happy where you are and your company is financially fit Stay Put.
Thanks again for the comments.

[Wet Power]

Ott

Brave decision - but I can totally see where you are coming from.

All the best

[brownoser]

Hey Ott,
If you find a 9-5 job for me sharpening pencils and spending everyday with my family (plus getting the same salary as I am now...with a pilot's licence...let me know!
EK is not all that bad as the 15 days is not always full days away...could be if you are on the 777 fleet. The busdrivers usually spend more than that at home in DXB as there are a lot of available and rest days prior to and after flights. With only around 3-4 layovers per month that usually equates to around 8 to 12 days actually away from DXB.
As for me, I am happy here for now but it's only for a few more years then its back to the real world (home). You are right as money is not everything but it helps.
Look around the aviation environment at present and there cannot be more than a handful of airlines offering bonuses this year.

:E

[Tandemrotor]

ott

I reckon you made the right choice! The money ain't what it used to be, and there's a big down side to working in the 'pit anyway.

Only my opinion of course. But we're all entitled to that!

[Rommel]

Ott,
Tough decision,one not made lightly,and it will be the right one for you,youve given it plenty of thought,and consideration.

Chances are you could possibly have a "acclerated command" with your P1 time,but thats very variable on which fleet you end up on,as the bulk of the upgrades on the Bus this year(88 plus)

The other side is with almost 1000 pilots by year end,you could well be sitting RHS for a while,on FO pay,and wondering why you left Blighty.

Good luck,
Rommel

[quickturnaround]

After reading all postings on this item, the question is, are there more pilots coming to stay, or leaving Emirates?

[VnavPath]

Thanks for the heads up guys.....how about meals and layover allowances, does Emirates pay any of this? What's the average FO take home pay per month?

[cpkratzer]

hey twieke
I sent you a private message
thanks
krotch

[Payscale]

Quickturnaround.... To my knowledge noone is leaving EK these days....many are joining...

To chose not to join EK after the interview, on grounds of not being able to chose where to live in misinformed. Anyone can take the liveout allowance and chose a house of ones (wife) likeing.

There has been pay increase recently...

All in all a nice place to live. Maybe one day the heat will fry my brain and I will want to go home...but I am not well done yet!

[Reverend Doctor Doug]

Payscale,

As is my want, I would like to add balance to your statement.

Yes you can elect to take the company allowance and live wherever you want, the problem is that the company allowance doesn't go anywhere close to covering your expenses (assuming that you choose to live in a villa of similar standard to the one Emirates allocates, but in a more suitable position).

The simple facts are that the allowance is 95,000dhs and if you try to find a new 4 bed apartment in the Jumeirah/Umm Suqeim area you will be looking at 120k min plus utilities (approx 1500dhs/mth avge).

So sure, if you are willing to kick in another 50,000dhs you can live wherever you like.

On the other hand if you are happy with an older villa or a lesser location, and don't mind having no garden so you can save on water, then yes, you may get something that comes in around the allowance. If you are happy to live in Sharjah, as one guy does, then you will probably profit significantly from the allowance.

There are strong rumors suggesting the allowance may go up to 120k. This won't help a great deal with rental accom, but will go a long way toward mortgages for those that have bought, or would like to.

The last pay increase was last May (2002) and it was 2%. The previous was May 2001 and it was also 2%. An F/O who arrived here in the early 90's was being paid around 16000dhs. An F/O who arrives today is getting paid more than 16000, but less than 17000 (I'm not sure of the exact numbers). So that gives some perspective to the 4% we've received over the last 2 years.

Note from the trenches:

1. I know a lot of the sunshine and roses brigade are going to accuse me of whining again. They are wrong. I am just stating simple facts that add balance to unsupported statements made previously.

2. I am quite happy here and would recommend it to anyone who has taken it apon himself to become aware of all the downsides before bringing their toys to the Sandpit.

3. There is nothing worse than having your wife throw her toys out of the sandpit, and go home, because she was misled as to what life is really like when you actually live in the sandpit, rather than just coming to play occasionally.

Cop U Later

The Rev :ok:

[White Knight]

Rev - I just know you're waiting for a reply from the sunshine and roses brigade as you so beautifully put it, but even I have to admit that you've just laid a very balanced post down here... I really cannot accuse you of "whinging" at all here.;) ;) ;) Safe flying.

[Payscale]

One mans (or womans) hell is anothers heaven.... I guess everything here is so different from what one was used to at home. Either you love it or you hate it....

Hope they increase the UA though;)