Maintenance releases

[libelle]

Had to hire a C182 this weekend, I noticed that the flight I had planned would take it over the time for the 100 hourly so I told the operator.
His reply was that his engineer had given approval to go up to 10% over on the 100 hourly.
I could not see anything on the maintanance release about this and as I have never heard of it I rejected the aircraft.
I have searched the casa website but cannot find any reference to this practice.
Can anyone let me know if it is legit or a fiddle

[Bagot_Community_Locator]

Sounds like a load of "bull" to me - the same type of bull many dodgy operators tell their pilots.

If it is not on the maintenance release, then it can not be done.

Do not be so gullible.

[Wagit]

That’s a new one to me!!!!!

But be careful when hiring an aircraft especially with an aircraft that is approaching the 100 hour limitation.

Some operators have told gullible pilots it is OK to run over the 100 hour limitation provide it is a private operation and the 12 months on the maintenance release hasn't expired.

They say that CASA has no limitation on how many hours a private aircraft does in a 12 month period and the 100 hour limitation doesn't apply.

This is technically not correct. Some aircraft that are privately owned and are not used for commercial operations only have to do a periodical inspection every 12 months and they don't have the 100 hour limitations on them.

Be very careful in this area........... I believe the Civil Aviation Act provides for large penalties for people flying with out a valid maintenance release ( 2 years imprisonment ) not withstanding what a insurance company would say or do if you had an accident without a valid m/release

[Dave Incognito]

It is possible to run an aircraft on a 100+/-10hr validity period. I’m not sure what the special requirements are (if any?), but it does exist. Our company operates on 100+/-10hr, however that’s what is specified in Part 1 of the maintenance releases.

As mentioned earlier though, don’t believe anything unless it is in ink on the MR.

[Blue Hauler]

A maintenance release is valid to the hours/date of expiry, whatever comes first. End of story. Beyond that time/date the aircraft is without a valid maintenance release.

The ten percent often quoted and as equally often misinterpreted relates to various inspections called up in the MR. For example an oil change required at fifty hours into a 100 hour MR may be completed between 45 and 55 hours without penalty.

I guess an insurer would have an easy cop-out if the aircraft sustained damage without a valid MR. No doubt the owner would recover his damages from the pilot!

Dave,

Perhaps your company has put up a case relating to ground time. Saw a few aircraft where the operator recorded 90% of the tacho as flight time and such was entered on the MR. I suspect that practice has been stamped out in my neck of the woods and most operators have fitted an air switch to record flight hours for MR purposes - they still slug the student VDO!

[compressor stall]

Quite common to record flight time in the MR and charge student VDO.

As for running over the MR - as I am aware the only time that might be legit is if there is unforeseen circumstances during a flight that was due to finish prior to the 100 hourly.

Eg. 2 hours left to run, you may do a 2 hour flight planned flight if there is no notammed traffic holding or weather holding. If you are radar vectored for controller amusement or the like and end up at 2.1 then that's fine.

As long as the original flight time (plus foreseeable delays like TEMPOs) was planned to be back before expiry you are covered.

Cannot recall the reg though.... :confused:


Not uncommon to have CASA approved maintenance systems which have 120 hours between inspections. However this 120 limit is written into the MR and is an upper limit.

[Dave Incognito]

Definitely not 90% of taco time. The MR states 100+/-10 hrs for the validity period (i.e flight time not taco time).

These MRs have got through numerous random ramp checks and regular maintenance audits by CASA, so they have proven to be legitimate.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Slightly off topic, but in defence of operators, the student or hirer is charged VDO (ie oil pressure on-oil pressure off) and that is what they log and what instructors paid by the hour are paid for. Now, when doing costings for aircraft with a VDO you can work on about 115 revenue (VDO) hours for 100 maintenance hours.
So if people want to hire our aircraft on airswitch that's fine, but they have to pay 15% more per airswitch hour than they would on VDO. the aeroplane costs the same to operate whatever clock you use.

[Dave Incognito]

CFI,

point taken, however when hiring an aircraft to fly solo, it is fairly rare that you will then get charged by airswitch/flight time. Most of the time you still get charged VDO even though there isn’t an instructor beside you.

This means that while you are letting the engine warm up, completing your checks/run-ups and taxiing to/from the runway, waiting at the holding point due traffic/ATC, you are getting charged lets say $150/hr. During this time, there are no maintenance costs being incurred by the company hiring out the aircraft and the fuel burn at idle is close to insignificant. I’ve seen many people try and overcome this by taxiing fast, breaking hard, rushing checks etc., just so they can shut down before the VDO clicks over into it’s next digit. Sure it is poor airmanship, but the temptation is there for some people.

[High Altitude]

CS as usual you are correct down to the last word.

Here's an interesting one for you...

Whats the worst MR bungle you've ever seen?

Checking an MR once found that a Baron put on 2000 hours in one flight - yep the slip of the pen from 6000 to 8000 hours.

Its amazing the errors that you may sometimes find in the MR thats why you must constantly check it, not just pilot errors but engineering errors... How many times have you recieved a fresh MR only to find that details are missing?

Heres a question that pops up fairly often, what do you do if on the MR your aircraft is due for a rewiegh and you have to go flying, yet the MR doesn't expire for another 30 hours? Can you fly?

HA.

[dingo084]

Too many variables have been quoted here!

Everything depends on

Is the aircraft being maintained (operated) as a class A or a Class B aircraft. There are 2 different methods of time measurement involved, the watch or the calender.

To further muddy the waters, which approved system of maintenance is being used, is it:

Manufacturers System,
CASR part 105 annex A
or
Another system approved by CASA.

All aircraft are either A or B and then one of the 3 maintenance systems are applied.

Simple :eek: really!

ding

[ugly]

Whats the worst MR bungle you've ever seen? Once saw an aircraft just out of 100 hrly, and the engineer had put the wrong year in the expiry date - ie it expired the day before the MR was issued. A private hiring pilot refused to take the aircraft, holding up others students etc. over what was an obvious slip of the pen.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Dave Incognito,

What I mean is that when calculating costing for your aircraft, you spread the cost over the revenue hours or the airswitch hours.

eg 100 hours on the maintenance release you budget $2500 maintenance costs for that time. This can either be done as $25 per hour on the airswitch, or $21.75 on the VDO, if you use the reasoning that there are 115 VDO hours per 100 airswitch hours. So someone hiring the aircraft on airswitch pays a higher rate per hour as the fixed costs are being spread over less hours.

So nobody is getting "slugged", it's just another way of calculating the hourly rate.

[Bagot_Community_Locator]

I heard some engineers today saying you can go up to 10 % over the hours of the MR BUT only for a ferry flight. (ie. MR valid for 100 hours, you can fly 110 hours)

I have never heard anything like this before:confused: :confused: :confused:

[mustafagander]

Ugly,

You and I know it's a slip of the pen, but to an insurer it's a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Imagine youself in court. What would you say when a be-wigged, silk robed person says words to the effect of "would you care to tell the court why you commenced a flight in this aircraft when you knew that the maintenance release was out of date by a year?"

You'd need a good story!

[Icarus2001]

I heard some engineers today saying...

If it ain't written down forget it.

[Piston Twin]

Dingo youve hit the nail right on the head, it all depends on the maintenance system being used. For example a 172R being maintained to manufactures standards has a 120hr limit.

[caampeeee!]

piston twin,
that may be correct but the bottom line to the issue is that unless it is stated in ink on the MR, then it cannot legally be done. I am sure that if the 172R was being maintained to that standard it would say on the MR that the service was due at the 120 hour mark.

[Blue Hauler]

This post should have been titled ‘urban myths’. I realise that the intricacies of Maintenance Releases are probably the least understood aspect of aviation for pilots but I feel that some of the statements above are uninformed and misleading.

It is possible to run an aircraft on a 100+/-10hr validity period

So perhaps we can run our Class 1 medical out to 1.1 years or likewise with our instrument ratings? Hardly. A period of validity is exactly that and such validity expires at a specific time in service or date. We operate a class A aircraft that has a 300 hour MR. During the validity period four phase inspections are called up that involve airframe and engines. 1 & 2 occur at 150 hours but may be varied plus or minus ten percent to allow flexibility. 3 & 4 expire at 300 hours – no flexibility. Other Phase inspections such as battery or RAD may occur at TIS or date. In the case of the ‘date’ there is no flexibility. I feel that the writer of this quote is confusing intermediate inspections and if he believes otherwise should take it up with the maintenance service provider to establish the correct procedure. His chief pilot may thank him for it.


As for running over the MR - as I am aware the only time that might be legit is if there is unforeseen circumstances during a flight that was due to finish prior to the 100 hourly….Cannot recall the reg though....

Expiry of a MR in such circumstances is no different to any other intentional overrun. The breach is neither justified nor excused by law. The court would therefore decide if an offence was committed or if there were mitigating circumstances.

I heard some engineers today saying you can go up to 10 % over the hours of the MR BUT only for a ferry flight. (ie. MR valid for 100 hours, you can fly 110 hours)

Perhaps such a case may exist for foreign aircraft but that would be dependent upon the laws of the particular state. Again I have not seen such a relaxation under the CARS.

If it ain't written down forget it.
Ain't that the truth.


CAR 38 provides CASA with the authority to give directions relating to maintenance of Australian aircraft.

CARS 39 & 41 imposes requirements upon the certificate of registration holder to ensure that maintenance called up in the maintenance schedule is carried out when required.

CARS 42A, 42B & 42C provides the certificate of registration holder with options upon which to base his maintenance schedule – manufacturer’s, CASA or approved system.

CAR 43 (5) Provides CASA with the necessary authority to dictate the maximum period that a MR can remain in force.

CAR 43 (9) allows the issuing authority of the MR to specify conditions (endorsements) for the purpose of ensuring the safety of air navigation. (Those conditions are usually listed with a TTIS or ‘date’ to complete various checks or component overhauls that may be required during the validity period of the MR eg. Prop overhaul, oil change, instrument AD)

I’m happy to debate any of the issues I raised above but please quote the regulation, not some gossip relayed through the Townsville refueller!

[nasa]

What Maintenance system is the aircraft being maintained to.....My 402 is 220 hours with inspections at 50 hours with a 10% leeway to 55 hours, thus 220 hours.

Torres will be able to answer this better than I, but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance IAW the maintenance system the aircraft is being operated to.

[Blue Hauler]

…but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance…

Tut Tut Nasa,

An old tyre kicker like you should be able to quote chapter and verse the relevant provisions for getting caught out in such an untenable situation, without falling back on Torres!

Torres

I’ll bet a shrewd old dog like you with such fine tuned accounting skills could go straight to your reference system pertaining to the provisions of Special Flight Permits. Surprising that some of these pilots (?) can’t do the same.

[Wagit]

It is disappointing that pilots have trouble understanding what is written on a Maintenance release.

Because when you really look at this issue, a maintenance release is the method by which the pilot can determine whether or not the aircraft is serviceable and if the required maintenance has been carried out.........

Just image the problems pilots would have if they had to determine the serviceability of and aircraft by looking at the aircraft log books

Blue Hauler has hit the nail on the head:

"A maintenance release is valid to the hours/date of expiry, whatever comes first. End of story. Beyond that time/date the aircraft is without a valid maintenance release."

If you are foolish enough to fly an aircraft with an expired maintenance release, because you think you can add 10% for ferry time etc etc etc... then I suggest you read the Civil Aviation Act, section 20AA subparagraph (3). After reading this section I suggest you take note of the penalty, 2 years imprisonment.

There are not many things that you can do wrong in aviation which can land you in the slammer.................... but this one can
: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[THREEGREENS]

Blue Hauler, Caampeeee and Wagit got it right............if it ain't on the MR, then IT AIN'T ON! end of story. If your maintenance is being done under some other approved arrangement, then it will be reflected on the MR accordingly. This chap said the MR expired at x-date and x-time and the time was due up in 4 hours....then the MR expires in 4 hours. :p
I personally know of a parachute operation that overran the MR by 40 (YES, FORTY) hours and convinced the pilot that because they hadn't been making entries onto the MR for the past 2 weeks, then all was legit and above-board.:mad: Funnily enough, the maintenance organisation had a slightly different view and issued the new MR with an expiry time of only 60 hours!
Risked everybody's licences for absolutely nothing.....except a big law suit had everything turned to custard.;) Funny thing; they're still in business today.

[Menen]

First of all any extension to scheduled 100 hourly maintenance requires CASA approval. Ask the operator to show you that approval if he is trying to monster you into flying beyond the sheduled time. Secondly, be immediately suspicious of any maintenance release that is a clean sheet ie no recorded defects.
There are owners out there - often LAME's that own their own aircraft, who go ape if a defect is endorsed on their maintenance release. Regardless of how badly maintained the aircraft is, a clean maintenance release keeps the owner happy. One LAME in the Parafield area is well known for his habit of writing off a defect written by a pilot as "entered in error". Keeps CASA happy and stops pilots from writing up more defects as they know its a waste of time.

[axiom]

NOW LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY (or read carefully),

"The Phelan Papers" especially with regard to "dodgy" MR's being issued by people with a vested interest in the aircraft's sale / operation.

Paul Phelan can be contacted via Australian Flyin Magazine or Yaffa publishing Company.

If you are seriously concerned enough to read further, talk to Jim Dawson (Boyd Munroe's Airsafety), or Bill Hamilton, (AOPA) VP, but Paul does the job nicely.

Some download, last count about 150 pages, but worth it.

A MR "CAN NOT" be used to attest to the airworthiness of an aircraft.

(Mick Toller, Dr Paul Scull Power, John Anderson, Minister for things regional and flying)...

You think I am kidding ????????? I kid you not !

[Travelling Toolbox]

All good points people and an interesting read, but I am left wondering why the M/R has become such a mysterious document?

A few jumbled up thoughts in no particular order from someone who has issued the odd one or two (hundred) M/Rs:-

The M/R has an expiry date and TTIS clearly spelt out in the appropriate boxes for these entries, THAT’S IT. No other options people on the standard 12months/100hrs, if that is indeed what is written in those boxes. If the aircraft is approved to fly other than a 100hrs/12months, then this variation would be entered in the expiry boxes not the 100hrs/12 months. Under normal operations (100hrs/12 months), the M/R ceases to remain in force. Exceedance of either is not a legal option. One can ferry with a permit at CASA’s discretion, but these usually carry caveats like:

“Essential crew only”
“Most direct route terrain and weather permitting”
And are usually issued to return a busted bird to the nearest nest for maintenance/repair/test, so don’t expect to make money/hire out your beast under these circumstances.
Again if a permit applies, its details too will be entered on the M/R “clearing the aircraft for a (once only) flight. The pilot will usually be given a copy of the permit along with the M/R.

There is also a CAR that states “thou shall not commence a flight the duration of which knowingly exceeds the validity of the M/R” (or words to that effect) so this is not an excused to get a permit.


The LAME (coordinator) signing the M/R for Release to Service is duty bound to enter ALL maintenance known to fall due prior to the expiry of the M/R (T/X components, AD’s, re-weighs etc.).

Now, if the aircraft is maintained to a system of maintenance then:
A) It is entirely possible that it may be approved by CASA to run to a longer TIS interval between periodic maintenance visits.
B) The system the aircraft is maintained under, which it is also released to service (RTS) to, is also entered on the M/R. This (and the different expiry entries) would be tip offs to the would be aviator that he has legitimate approval to commence and complete the flight when the M/R has exceeded 100hrs TIS.
C) These systems generally only apply to Class A aircraft, but there is nothing stopping a Class B to be maintained to this standard and approved to fly beyond 100hrs.

What I am saying in a nutshell I guess, is that all the info you need to determine how long the bird can LEGALLY be flown between visits to people like me, is there in front of you in the “expiry” and “maintenance in accordance with” boxes.

TT
:)

[Torres]

nasa and Blue Hauler. Sorry, I wasn't following this thread and only just discovered Blue Hauler's PM.

"Torres will be able to answer this better than I, but in the regs somewhere, yes I'm too bloody busy & lazy to go find, it states that you can run over your M/R if positioning the aircraft for maintenance IAW the maintenance system the aircraft is being operated to."

We originally had the C208B's on Cessna's approved 400 hour maintenance cycle, later reduced to a 300 hours approved Class A maintenance system with certain component TIS voluntarily reduced - e.g. fuel nozzel change at 400 hours and boroscope inspections increased as this was cheaper than hot section replacement!

The intermediate checks had some flexibility - return to home maintenance base only I think - but the total 300 hour maintenance cycle had no flexibility.

It is my understanding that an MR hours or time in service is inflexible. Run out of hours away from home base and you will need a CASA Permit to Fly to get home.

As it should be!

[nzer]

Yes, in many aviation jurisdictions, a medical and an I/R have a "30 day" grace period, ie, you can renew up to 30 before and up to 30 days after the calendar date - this "grace period" is not shown on the certifiacte, but provision for it is contained in the State's Rules - not relevant to the MR debate as such, but a date on a piece of paper is NOT the sole determinate, in all cases, of expiry of an MR or equivalent. The proposed CASA rules, more internationally aligned and up to date, will in fact be reflecting this approach.

[gaunty]

Torres

As usual spot on.

Apart form all of that, it's just smart to get your motorcar serviced at least every 10,000km even if it's just an oil change, and most manufacturers reckon 20,000km is way time for a real good lookover.

And that is for the modern 2003 designed vehicle, anything older required much shorter intervals if you were to keep it in good shape.

This is reflected in the maintenance schedules of aircraft manufacturers as the the technology gets better, viz the C208.

Considering a C172 does around 18,000km between services, it's no bad thing to have a good look.
Chieftain = 25,600km, C402 = 28,800km :p

Point being, if the regulator didn't make it mandatory and 100 hrs = 100 hrs, then most would treat their aircraft like they treat their cars and a drive along any road in town should convince you why that is not a particularly good idea.

And I dare anyone to have issue with the 'but it's different it's not travelling on the roads" and the air is "softer" routine.:ouch:

[bush mechanics]

Speaking as an engineer and a cpl licence holder ,our aircraft are maintained too class A standards and we have our own maintanance system,For our c210s we dont have any provisions for +- hours on due items.M/R is valid for 12 months and 100 hours from date of issue,In addition any A/Ds due within that period either calander date or a/c ttis.Our twin fleet we have a +-5 hours on due inspections(not A/Ds)50hrly/100hrly/150hrly and 200hrly.As you can see we have a 12 month M/R and 200 hours life.Our maintance system is made from manafactures time life limit checks and then the whole package is approved by CASA
On the other hand we maintain a number of private aircraft to schd 5,which is the casa system,In addition too this you also have too incorperate the manafactures time/limit checks.The M/Rs we issue with theses aircraft are valid for 12 months and unlimited hours,aslong as you adhere to all A/Ds and manafactures time/life limit intervals. On a few occastion owners have run out of calander time and we have had to get special flight permits too get the aircraft back too there maintance base.

Soo if it isnt on the M/R dont do it no matter what anyone tells you.Its the resposibility of the PIC too check the M/R prior too each flight too make sure nothing is due or going too fall due during next flight.The LAME and Maintanace controller are responsible that all info on the M/R is correct and acurate.Soo if something is overflown due too the wrong hours written on M/R the lame cops it then the maintanance cotroller.Not the pilot because he/she opperrated the aircraft within the limits of the M/R

[Wheeler]

OK, that's clear 100 hours is 100 hours - no worries about that. But someone back there said that a 50 hourly (say for a C172 in Charter) can be carried out at 45 - 55 hours. Is that right in the 'standard' CASA system?

[Capt Claret]

I'm not familiar with reg other than the Australian ones.

Australian CAR (1988) 6.14 (4) states in part:

Subject to subregulation (5) and regulation 6.15, a medical certificate remains in force for the period set out on the certificate, being a period of not more than ......

Subregulation (5), referred to above, states:
A medical certificate expires:
(a) at the end of the period set out on the certificate; or,
(b) if CASA extends the period during which the certificate remains in force under regulation 6.15 - at the end of that extended period; or,
(c) if a new certificate is issued to a person who holds a current medical certificate and the appropriate day (essentially the day of issue by medico ... my note) for the new certifficate occurs before the current certificate is due to expire under paragraph (a) or (b) - on the appropriate day of the new certificate.

CAR 6.15 outlines the conditions one can use to apply for the extension of valitidity of a medical certificate.

No where is there a 30 day, or any grace, on a medical certificate.

[Tinstaafl]

I think s/he was referring to the concept, and not that it specifically applied to Oz medicals & ratings - although it used to!

It certainly applies to UK medicals & rating renewals.

Why CAA/CASA chose to remove this beneficial form of the rule is beyond me... :rolleyes: :mad:

[AMRAAM]

Hello all.

Firstly, the old hands are deffinetly right aboout the overlaying regs and the intent of the rules.

But as we have seen from the guys posting about thier Company or aircraft, that there are may different CASA approved methods in use.

In other words NO TWO AIRCRAFT ARE necessarily the SAME, with reguard to thier CASA approved maintenance system.

SO the the question is HOW DO YOU KNOW which system is in use, the answer is, it's on the MR. So you must read it and TRUST in it to be correct. Yea I know there are mistakes made, after all we are human, and of course the other rule also applies, that to REALLY SCREW up takes a COMPUTER based system.
If a mistake is made, do your best to sort it out with the Chief Engineer, NOT by yourself.

So rule No 1 says - IF it aint on the MR then you can't do it. or if it is on the MR then you have to follow the limits imposed. (If its an error, then its a limiting error)

Rule no 2 says - READ THE BLOODY MR, and understand it for each INDIVIDUAL aircraft you fly. Always remember that aircraft A and aircraft B may different in the way they are approved for maintenace, and you will not get caught.

As for the 50 hourly question, well rule 1 and 2 apply. If the MR says 50 hourly due at XXX, then it is, and no you can't.

But if it says, 50 Hourly due at xxxx (Optional), well gues what, you can.


PS STOP trying to second guess the Chief engineer or the Approved maintenace system, it makes you look like a pack of wallys.

[Pitch Pull]

+/- 10%?

I think it should be + Zero, - anything. (As early as you like but never late)

Pitch

[Dehavillanddriver]

Another interesting myth is the engineers telling people that the daily does not last 24 hrs, but can be extended to 30 hours - and then dispatching the aeroplane.

The reality is that the aeroplane (under our system of maintenance) has a daily that lasts 24 hours.

It used to be able to be extended to 30 hours IF the aeroplane was overnighting at a port where engineering facilities are not available. (I say USED TO because I am not sure if that provision is still available). It was this clause that the engineers were using to try and con pilots.

Why do I bring this up?

Because flying without a valid daily is the same as flying with no maintenance release.

AND because the engineers are sledging pilots for not doing the pilot exterior inspection correctly.

People in glass houses......

[GA Driver]

I read the full post but. . .

I spoke to the LAME who maintains all our company aircraft (No affiliation with the company/owner whatsoever) He too said to me that the aircraft only has 100 hours but if it was delayed (ATC, Headwind etc) that it was ok but only under those circumstances.
Seeing that he has no affiliation with the company, I would have thought that he would want our aircraft in the door asap for the $$$ aspect and has no reason to tell me otherwise.

Secondly... If im out on a long stint that planned to fit in with the 100 hours of the MR and I did get delayed due ATC or whatever and the MR did expire mid flight, what am I supposed to do? Close the throttles and pray the Airswitch doesn't tick over while I look for a paddock?


I think NOT!

AMRAAM:

50 Hourly due at xxxx (Optional),

The company I work for has A/C that are CHTR and AWK and none of the MR's say 'optional' when it comes to oil changes. It was my understanding that AWK it was optional. Or where you referring to something else?

[Blue Hauler]

Wheeler,

That is correct, if it is on the MR. If it is not on the MR then perhaps you need to take the issue up with your LAME and ascertain if you can conduct a 50 hourly check +/- 10%. If the answer is yes (under your operating system) then have him amend the MR.

Pitch Pull,

If a MR specifies the 50 hourly is to be carried out at 50 hours; and you opt to do it at 40 hours; then you will have to conduct another 50 hourly at 90 hours, or turn the aircraft in for a fresh 100 hourly with 10 hours left on the MR. Most aviation managers would prefer to run as close as possible to the 100 hourly to reduce operating costs.

GA Driver,

Section 20AA of the Act states (3) An owner, operator, hirer (not being the Crown) or pilot of an Australian aircraft must not commence a flight or permit a flight to commence if … (b) a maintenance release under the regulations that covers the duration of the flight is not in force in respect of the aircraft and the regulations do not authorise the flight without the release. Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.

CAR 41 places the onus on the certificate of registration holder to undertake maintenance when required. Penalty 50 penalty units.

If your MR looks like expiring towards the end of a trip you need to roster another aircraft or arrange to ferry back and have it renewed. If it runs out mid-flight seek legal aid! :eek:

[Tinstaafl]

As long as the planned flight would have the a/c on the ground at or before MR expiry, why would you need to seek legal aid?

The requirement is not to commence a flight without an MR covering the period of flight.

Once you're in the air that paragraph no longer applies. Until you next land, of course.

[Blue Hauler]

Tinstaffl

So what you are saying is to hell with the COR holder. Let him face the music under CAR 41. Of course you may also face the music under the provisions of CAR 281 (2)!

[AN LAME]

DeHav

AND because the engineers are sledging pilots for not doing the pilot exterior inspection correctly.

Disappointing to see you airing your persecution complex over the Engineering Preflights on a totally irrelevant thread. And I'll say again...no-one is having a 'sledge' or anything else derogatory regarding pilots

Also interesting to see you use the term ' pilot exterior inspection' for the first time. If I didn't know better, I'd say you'd seen the light and now acknowledge that an engineering preflight and the pilot exterior inspection are different animals.

Go figure...;)

P.S. And to throw the cat amongst the pigeons as it were for this thread, the new regs delete the Maintenance release and replace it with 'Return to Service'!

From NPRM0109MS P.19:

EFFECT ON STAKEHOLDERS
'For people carrying out maintenance the proposal introduces new
terminology for returning an aircraft to service. The terminology aligns with other NAA’s requirements and removes the 2-year validity of the existing maintenance release framework.
Registered operators and pilots will see different documents attesting to the serviceability of the aircraft.'

BENEFITS
'The ability for a LAME to state the aircraft will remain serviceable until the next scheduled inspection is not practical. The proposal brings a clearer interpretation of what the return to service actually means.
Standardises the Australian requirements to bring them into
line with international best practice.'

COSTS
'There is no additional cost to this proposal.'

Cheers :D

[Wheeler]

2 years in prison eh?

That must be a really serious offence.

Hypothetically speaking then (I know it never happens really), what should a LAME do to avoid becoming embroiled in this really serious offence if an aircraft arrives for a 50hrly having overrun its MR, or perhaps an A/D by 0.5 hours with nothing written on the MR to say that is OK?

Or is all this perhaps a little bit theoretical?

[Pitch and Break]

Were the hell do you get off telling people that they can overrun their medicals by 30 days? There is absolutely NO provision to overrun a medical....on the expiry date, if you haven't had it either extended by a DAME or been issued with a brand new one, then all flying subject to that certificate MUST CEASE.......simple really but this galloot comes along and has probably created another area where somebody will think it is OK to overrun a very serious document!

[kickstart]

If you loook at the MR all checks and maintenance are written in the same section, headed up by "Maintenance Required" if you have a 50 hourly written in this section, it as to be done at that time. Some LAME's enter it as 50 Hourly recommended to try and say that it doesn't really need to be done then, and maybe +- 5 or so hours is OK. But the bottom line is that if it is written in the Maintenance Required section it has to be done. If you are just doing 50 Hourly oil changes and aren't required to do them simply don't have it written in this section, and complete the 50 hourly as close to 50 hours as you can thus giving yourself +- 5 hours if required.

Cheer's

[Richo]

As Blue Hauler and others have said, each individual approved operator has thier own system approved by CASA.

That means that lots of what is writen here may be correct for that operator or maintenance system.

There is no one rule, each aircraft and operator needs to be looked at individualy.

If you are flying same aircraft with same company, then it is not to dificult to keep on top of the system in use. If you are flying several different types from different organisations then you need to rehash each system reguarly to keep on top of it.

I find that flying both GA and airline style equipment from different organisations, that I need to review the GA MR's each time to ensure that I don't get caught.

Questions to the Chief Engineer will result in the correct answer, most of the time!