View Full Version : Palace Coup at QF?

8th Jan 2003, 02:22
Word has it that the King of the Domestic Cowboys also known affectionately as S.... S... and the pilot union have combined forces to topple the current QF Chief Pilot.
The aim is to move S.... S... into the position.
It is all over a recent LOSA report which contained damaging findings on the 737 operation.
The fleet Capt was "replaced" however the whisper is the real issue is S.... S...'s performance when he was Fleet Captain on the type at the time of the merger.
He was responsible for training these poor performers at the time of the 89 "dispute".

8th Jan 2003, 09:07
It gets worse,

Apparently our 'export-import' to AN and back who is presently in a senior non-flying job is pushing the board very hard to get the job.

I have heard the CP is a short duck - but I cant see AIPA backing a 'hero' - the COM is quietly, but continuosly looking to settle scores.

Buster Hyman
8th Jan 2003, 09:46
Hmmm...it seems William Shatner can't keep off of PPRUNE!!!:rolleyes:

8th Jan 2003, 11:11
I think the boss's tenure is up about mid this year anyway.

There are 1001 different variables but I reckon a dark horse is a former AIPA president. Gets on well with the board, respected on BOTH sides- crews and company- and could well be a 'unifying' force at a time when the workplace can hardly be classified as 'unified'.

The other bloke? Talk about red rag to a pretty tense bull!! :D

Interesting times.

Mud Skipper
8th Jan 2003, 19:11

You might find a former AIPA president has an even slightly higher position in sight. Just a wisper but as you said he does get on well with the boss.

338C, Nope the LOSA report was not damaging to the 737 fleet. Some deficiencies were identified and are now being fixed - part of the companies QA process. This is a constructive process. To not look at one's naval would be damaging.

I wonder when we may hear the LOSA result of the countries other 737 operator?

8th Jan 2003, 19:50
Interesting to see how certain low cost carriers would compare as they have not done a LOSA audit of such dimensions as yet.

Not saying anything but if the same audits were conducted on everyone then this would be a much better picture.

8th Jan 2003, 20:02
:) Sorry to ask a stupid question...but what is LOSA?

8th Jan 2003, 20:10
Line Operations Safety Audit. See here (http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/HelmreichLAB/Aviation/LOSA/LOSA.html) for more info.

9th Jan 2003, 00:35
So, is Virgin actually going through the motions at the moment?


9th Jan 2003, 01:00
I recieved an email with a "hotmail" address from somebody who purports to be "close to the action" suggesting that the identities of those the subject of this post would be too well and easily known.

As is often the case the hotmail address bounced back, but I am providing below a copy of the exchange with all of the "mailer -daemon" stuff edited out.


Thank you for the heads up.

I am very aware and I can assure you that I am keeping a very close watch on it.

I am not in QF nor do I like most here, have any idea who the individual people are and I would suggest to you that neither does anyone not involved directly in QF either except perhaps those others in the "know" in the industry.
I guess what I'm saying is that it would hardly be a secret within.

Either way as long as it is anonymous people can guess all they
like, as it is the nature of the beast to share these tid bits.

I suspect the positive side of whatever is actually going down is
that QF are seen to be still actively pursuing and improving their safety and quality agenda.
For that to be actually seen to be happening, notwithstanding the delicacy required in handling the people, is no bad thing.

When more than one person knows about something, I am reminded of
the joke question that asks "how do you know when there is an elephant hiding in the fridge?"


Reported Post "QF Palace Coup"
>This is the reason that the user gave:
>I mentioned this post to someone I know that may be considered
"guilty by association" -with its content.
>Obviously the person referred to is open to interpretation from all and sundry?
>We tread on some very "soft ground" as ppruners.I think we should
let this post die a natural death ASAP.

Fair comment OK!

And before anybody jumps in about 'QF' getting different treatment to 'DJ', remember we try very hard to discriminate "equally" here. :D

9th Jan 2003, 02:37
Thaht was Mud Skipper, not me Lancer.

I may be a bit of a cynic but everything changes and nothing changes. I'm hopeing for the day when someone in QF proves me wrong! :D

The funny thins is W is that I have absolutely no idea who the bloke referred to in 338Cs post is and I can't be bothered looking up the seniorority list to narrow it down! :D

9th Jan 2003, 07:03

S...S and William Shatnet are both mysteries to me..

This thread identifies less than some of the others I have read.

Wouldn't surprise me if the ex AIPA pres got the job...god knows everyone else has used the COM as a mechansim to management and to stabbing the rest of pilot body in the back with their inside knowledge

9th Jan 2003, 23:26
I remember when the current CP was the boss on the 737 fleet just a VERY few years back, and well AFTER those pesky "89" joining pilots had been around for a few years. He seemed happy with the operation then, even bringing in a few changes of his own to make himself even happier.

Any LOSA identified problems are minor and part of any ongoing improvement. Call it Product Improvement.

Let those who are without fault cast the first stone.

10th Jan 2003, 00:20
William Shatner played the detective in the LJ hooker series...
As for S... S....
Maybe Super Sluthe!!!!!!!!!!:D Bwahahahah

10th Jan 2003, 01:09
Any LOSA identified problems are minor and part of any ongoing improvement

Yeah, right. What was it that the chief pilot told you in the meetings?

Accepting the problem exists it half way to fixing it.

Buster Hyman
10th Jan 2003, 01:29
anakin...it wasn't L J Hooker....

Woomera...perhaps a few more postings of edited highlights from your complaints bin might bring it home to some? Might lessen your overall workload too!

12th Jan 2003, 01:39
Surely "George Jetson" of Ansett fame not being considered for the Chief Pilot position.

Same bloke who totally bungled the CRJ intro and had the hubris to get into a totally unprofessional pissing competition with Mr Toller at CASA, with the Xmas and Easter consequences.

Captain Jetson's trail of destruction would not be complete without a good crack at QF.

Dixon isn't that stupid though, which is why I will hold onto my QF shares.

13th Jan 2003, 02:02
T J Hooker then...crikey :rolleyes:

Buster Hyman
13th Jan 2003, 10:54
Your instincts serve you well, young Anakin. Guard your thoughts, lest the Dark side consume you.

18th Jan 2003, 05:23
Saying that the LOSA results are minor concerns me a bit (actually, a fair bit). However, in defence of the CP, I didn't get the impression that he shares that view.

23rd Jan 2003, 08:55
We've been standing by but nothing's been reported.

Come on Keg, you must have some good gen or do you to remain a version of the three wise monkeys rolled into one?

23rd Jan 2003, 20:23
DFO to retire in march at the end of his term.

He offered his resignation to the board over the' LOSA affair", but the board turned it down, so as not to 'destablise' flight operations any further.

The possible post march line up is:

DFO - 'mini-me'
DDFO - ' Dr Evil'
GMFOT - " The Black Prince"

Outsiders for the top slot are TJ and the last president of AIPA.

24th Jan 2003, 11:32
Sorry Reggie, anything I may know in this regard is either scuttlebutt or speculation and whilst I do engage in the odd bit of speculation from time to time, I'm too well 'known' around the traps to be commenting on things in the past.

As to the future, I know who fartsock refers to as the future DFO but I'm not sure of his other two. I would've thought that some of the incumbents could be considered as 'tainted goods'. Time will tell I guess. Not that anyone asks me for my opinion these days. Last time I was asked for my feedback I was told that I was 'wrong'. ;) No different to any other day at work really but a little disheartening when someone asks you what you think to be told that you're wrong! :eek: :D

I have heard the odd rumour of splitting the GGMFO from the CP role though- again that may be scuttle butt. Would remove what is considered by some line crews as a potential conflict of interest in the position. Again, time will tell.

27th Jan 2003, 23:41

Your modesty is disturbing, as I didn't think you were so retiring with your views. I do however know how you feel to be asked for an opinion to be then knocked down. Still, don't let that deter you from practicising your art.

Pip Pip!!:)

28th Jan 2003, 02:05
I can't believe the "Miliner" hasn't been put up for contention.:D

29th Jan 2003, 01:27
I heard that in "marijuana alley" , "mini me" has gone past his use-by date- at one stage I think he was in the running, but as one of the results of LOSA he will soon be back as a line pilot..
Dr Evil to retain his position as Deputy Chief Henchman...
Ex AIPA boss to be new CP will possibly an outside run by the CP of Australian Airlines (interesting one that one)...
The gentleman (I use that term loosely) who Gandenburg referred to to head up Jet Coonex in NZ...
By the way, who is the Black Prince????

29th Jan 2003, 01:56

Have heard on very good authority that the big chiefs in the city are less than impressed with the candidates speculated upon in this lofty forum. Having observed the chest thumping and postulation from a distance they are seriously considering a rank outsider with formal management training, flight ops management experience and the charisma of Al Dunlap. This would be consistent with the wishes of the "main man" to reduce costs and dramatically downsize what is precieved as a bloated and inefficient management structure.

I guess only time will tell. However I do know that 2003 will be a VERY interesting year given that DJ are making profits that GD can only dream of, in a market of which he controls 75%!

Big E

29th Jan 2003, 03:17
"However I do know that 2003 will be a VERY interesting year given that DJ are making profits that GD can only dream of, in a market of which he controls 75%!"

So will the DJ profits that "GD can only dream of'', translate into a wage increase for their staff? Or shall they continue to be screwed?

I hope the VB EBA will mean a big win for the pilots, otherwise it will be a VERY interesting year for ALL airline pilots!

1st Feb 2003, 01:32
No question that Flt Ops has loads of massively overpaid admin staff who do very little and are dispensible.

Take for example 'The Gerbil' - who because of the fact we are an absentee workforce with personal issues effecting work handled by pilot fleet managers - does not furfill a typical HR role.

In fact, all he does in sign PCV's and car leases - basic clerical work.

He is paid $150,000 base plus a bonus of $70,000. This makes him better paid that most B767 capts, and definitely better paid then all DJ pilots, yet he produces nothing and does not add to the bottom line

I also hope the new GMFO bins the following:

Flt Ops HR - not required under our admin structure
'Dr Goebbels' - The flt ops communication mamager - whose propaganda is ignored by the line crews, and whose sponsorship of the 'iNotes' project is a massive money wasting disaster
Most of cabin crew admin. A 'PDM' is on $100,000 per year, has no technical (or other) quals, and does not have the authority to action even basic administartive requests for cabin crew members.
APT project staff - 4 years and $3million later, nothing to show for this white elephant, except (again) a load of clerks in flt ops training making work for themselves

Invertedldgs - 'Black Prince' is new flt ops training mgr

Going Boeing
1st Feb 2003, 15:52

Your comment smacks of a lot of agro wrt AIPA Committee members. These people give a a lot of their personal time to solve all the problems that you and your peers gripe about (and generally do an excellent job). As far as I know, history records that only one ex-AIPA COM member has taken a management position and your comments are totally inappropriate to the majority of your peers who sacrifice their time and money to improve your work conditions and lifestyle.

An interesting appraisal of the QF Flight Ops politics - I think that you assesment of "mini-me" is probably correct. The Australian Airlines CP has publically stated that he is not a contender for the QF CP job, which leaves Dr Evil (too old), George Jetson (hopefully the board is not that blind), the Black Prince (his porfile has reduced somewhat) or the former AIPA President (who is obviously the best canditate but who also publically states that he is not a contender & besides why would he leave BrisVegas).

Interesting times ahead. GB

2nd Feb 2003, 11:19
Now I'm confused. I always thought mini me was who we are obviously referring to as the Black Prince. :confused:

Someone needs to private message me the decodes!! :}

3rd Feb 2003, 00:21
I'm with Keg. It's all a bit too cryptic for me. I, too, would appreciate a crib sheet to sort out who is who.

3rd Feb 2003, 05:44

'Mini me' is so named because when he was the GM B767 his management style became very similar to the DCP - also known as 'Dr Evil'.

'Black Prince' earned his spurs during the era on the B767 where there was a 90% failure rate at command training. He had a hand in most of them.


As for the post critisising my view on AIPA - I do not dispute the time put in by COM members, just the results.

Having paid my membership fees for nearly 15yrs, all I have seen is my conditions go backwards and my quality of life destroyed by rostering.

Fixes to both have been available, but because these issues did not effect the -400 or most of the COM members there has been no interest in finding a fix.



3rd Feb 2003, 06:55
Fartsock - 2 suggestions for you :

1. Run for the Committee
2. Leave AIPA and "go it alone "

If you're so unhappy.

3rd Feb 2003, 09:16

Been on comittee. I would therfore say I am well qualified to comment on it.

Anyhow, the issue here is not AIPA, but flt ops management.

I may have raised AIPA as a side bar in a previous post, but I would now ask we keep our collective eye on the main game, which is understanding how we are getting screwed whilst the managers are laughing all the way to the bonus bank.