View Full Version : Ryanair. The best thing since sliced bread?

29th Jul 2001, 03:15
Interesting article on FR in the August issue of Business Plus Magazine (http://www.bizplus.ie) (Ireland).

Some quotes;

Free Market defenders?
By affecting the role of persecuted underdog, O'Leary has managed to deflect attention from the fact that he is approaching monopoly status on many of his routes....a recession can give him the opportunity to build up this monoploy.

Pays his pilots well?
Mick O'Leary says;
Our staff have a five-year pay deal and share options and there are loads of pilots looking for work. So there is no pressure on wages here.

Doesn't receive handouts?
Through the US export bank which helps finance export sales for Boeing, Ryanair has access to funds at interest rates below 5%....In spite of occasional threats to pull out of Dublin (over landing charges) Ryanair has access to these funds because it is based here, in a country which does not manufacture civil aircraft. The Americans will not give the guarentees to 'manufacturing countries'.

Unlimited expansion and profitability?
In early July directors Declan Ryan and Cathal Ryan, sons of the airlines founder Tony Ryan, each sold 1,800,000 shares.....Thats hardly a vote of confidence in the company and it's no wonder that other brokers now hesitate about recommending Ryanair shares right now.

Fuure cost savings?
Although O'Leary's aggressive bragadocio may be irritating to some, it is all part of the rolling war on costs. The company has a continuing programme to achieve cost reductions and it tries to achieve victory on one front every year....One year..a squeeze on travel agents commissions. Then there may be contracting out of services to cut costs.

So who's for the chop next? See quote 2.

[ 28 July 2001: Message edited by: CaptSensible ]

The Guvnor
29th Jul 2001, 10:24
The article is at: http://www.bizplus.ie/bp_online/companies/?ns=17

30th Jul 2001, 04:33
Capt Sensible
Are you pissed at Ryanair or something???
or perhaps you are looking to jump ship from
EI since they are in such dire straits....
I hear that there is a ban on recruitment now
in EI.....how come????
So no hope of them hiring DEP's???
I have a few friends who are just finishing their licences in Ireland and are looking???
Perhaps FR are the way to go.....who knows? :cool:

30th Jul 2001, 16:43
Hi ontheairwaves, haven't heard from you in a while.

Actually the article was written in one of the main Irish Business magazines, and since it was relevant to aviation (esp. current affairs in FR) I thought that ppruners might be interested. I didn't write it myself...so don't blame me if it's less than favourable.

As to being pissed at FR? Well, any professional pilot who isn't pissed at a company that blatantly sacked the union president (and without due process) is probably missing the part of his brain where self preservation normally resides.
This is union busting, big time.

Aren't you pissed at FR?

PS. Guv, the article I quoted from is in the August issue of BizPlus magazine. The one you linked to is the July issue. August isn't on their website yet.

31st Jul 2001, 14:53
Actually Guv , the article you referred us to is at least a couple of years old. Nevertheless it makes for interesting reading.Apart altogether from the business content,the most fascinating reference was the one about MOL wearing second hand Nike trainers. Now why on earth would you want to a) do that, b) tell a reporter about it?.The other interesting reference was to MOL's "love to spend the rest of my life on a beach in Barbados surrounded by babes". Unlike most of us who would also fancy this scenario he has the money to do it. So what is stopping him? Maybe he cannot get a cheap flight!!

31st Jul 2001, 15:00
Hello everybody
I am not discussing your topics but I have to ask someone, nobody answered in wannabe forum, regarding sim/tech interview with Ryanair. I´m going this week( not alot left of it).

[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Mindthegap ]

1st Aug 2001, 13:57
Dear Mindthegap,

If ANY pilot wants to join Ryanair right now they are totally raving mad.

You must be desperate.

No doubt you have read the thread of the "Ryanair sacks union chief" posting here.

Read between the lines.

It is a VERY unhappy Company internally. And I don't just mean the pilots. Expect a great deal of abuse from Management.

Unless you have low hours and accept you probably won't be staying very long, don't join.

If you already have a type rating and hours, you are insane to consider this route.

Don't believe whatever you are told at interview. If they tell you you will be based in Dublin, or where ever, expect that to be changed AFTER you have signed the contract & bond. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what will happen to you. Things change daily & dramatically ever day, and expect practically every paragraph in your contract to be broken (if you get one)in time.

And if you don't like it, there is NO course of action, short of going to Court, to get it fixed.

Hence union recognition fight going on in the UK right now.

I know some of the stuff you are asking about, but I'm not saying a word, cos I'm doing you a favour.....

Edited to remove an unfounded allegation.

[ 01 August 2001: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]

1st Aug 2001, 18:06
I have a similar interest as mindthegap and would like to know a little more real detail about FR.

What I don't understand Blogg is why you work with the Ryans - if it is insane to join it must be insane to stay. IMHO most of the guys I meet around Bishops S seem to have more money and time than me and do not seem particularly unhappy. Have you been particularly screwed around or is their something the others are not saying?

All info appreciated

2nd Aug 2001, 12:24
Don't mind people like Blogg, he's talking through his ar*e.
I know a lot of Ryanair pilots and they're far from being "unhappy."
I know one guy who retired last year after flying with them for years having moved from Lingus and he always said it was hard work, but the money was great and he made a hell of a lot of it! He never has a bad word to say about them.
All this crtisism you will always note has avery distinct "British" feel to it, if you know what I mean.

2nd Aug 2001, 13:28
OneWorld22 - A lot has happened in that year since your man has left. I am not sure how to take your message. It has to be a wind up. If not, prepare for a lot of responses!

2nd Aug 2001, 13:50
Bring on the responses Skyclear. It is no wind up. Ever since PPRuNe first came on-line there has been thread after thread on "the woes of Ryanair." Not a week goes by without Michael O'Leary and co. being accused of everything under the sun. The point about the recent sacking is very simple,
where you there?
do you know for sure what happened?
Because if you weren't, everything you and others are saying is heresay. Remember there are always two sides to every story.

Look how people got it so wrong about the sacking of the daughter of the Chief Pilot, they immediately jumped in with two feet, asumimg it was O'Leary when in fact it was nothing to do with him.

I would like to get the Ryanair management side of the story before making any crass comments, or jumping in accusing him without knowing any of the facts. I repeat, you are all reacting to a story you heard from third parties and if it was as bad as people are saying, why have the Ryanair pilots not done anything? why are there no rumblings?

As for my comment on the British taint, you know exactly what I'm talking about. There is still a sizeable portion of British society that will never like an Irish success story. I mean Ryanair, an airline from that small backward Island, now the second largest carrier after BA operating between the UK and Europe...I mean it's just not right is it?

2nd Aug 2001, 16:26
Oneworld 22... why lower your self to using the 'If I dont like the arguement... sure I can always blame them for being anti-Irish racists..' plan of attack?

Just when I thought that the Irish had got over their inferiority complex... along you come. Welcome to 2001..Welcome to Europe...

How many European low cost carriers are run brits..

FR - Irish
GO - American
EZY Greek
UKA Dutch
VIR Belgian

Now do we hear similar anti greek feelings regarding stelios? NO

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: Copenhagen ]

2nd Aug 2001, 16:29
Well there is always one isn't there!!

For your information, OneWorld22 I AM Irish.

This Company is TOTALLY different for the one it was, even 12 months ago, and a lot of it comes from MOL's new henchmen trying to take over the running of it to justify their existence and fat salary. Jim's Stansted Base is totally different from DOB's (bilko's). And a lot worse.

What you clearly don't understand is that sometimes it isn't so easy to move Companies. Does the expression "out of the frying pan, into the fire...." mean anything to you???

I agree with you Skyclear. I think you, OneWorld22, are a wind up.

However what's the point of even discussing your opinion, when clearly you aren't in touch with what is really going on inside the Company? My info comes DIRECTLY from the horses mouth. Those out there who read this, who are inside, KNOW it is true.

I just wish to save another poor sod's career from being stuck, like mine.

I want BALPA, because maybe we can get seniority recognised in Ryanair, and stop the rot.

Why am I still here? Easy. Because one day maybe I will get to come home, and be with my family again.

2nd Aug 2001, 16:53
Steady on there guys....
for your information Copenhagen, I'm not Irish! I was born and raised in New York city and moved here with my parents when I was young and have stayed on here. I also served in the USMC and I don't have the traditional "Irish-American" background. so get your facts right before you start shooting from the hip. As a neutral I've looked on with dismay regarding the many petty and spiteful things said by Brits about the Irish when on my travels and the anti-Ryanair BS that takes place regulary here is proof of that. An Irish success story is something to question, it must be dodgily run, or their maintenance must be dodgy, or they're financed with dodgy money and government favours. You know what those cute Irish are like! We even had threads here criticizing Ryanair for their pilots' taxi speeds!!!!!!!!

Blogg, all I'm asking for is the facts of this matter, where you there at the time that this happened???
Did you hear the conversation between MO'L and this guy? In other words you've heard one side of the story only. To have a proper debate, we need someone to stand up and give the other side of this story, isn't that how it works in the courtroom? One party states their case and the other party responds and gives their side. All I'm asking for is a balanced debate, if you can prove to me that this happened the way you say, then I'll be the first to stand up and say O'Leary was totally wrong. (And I know you're Irish.)
But we need to get BOTH SIDES.

2nd Aug 2001, 16:59
Oh, and by the way, why are there no rumblings from the pilots?!?!

Once again, OneWorld22, you prove your ignorance.

The Dublin pilots voted 50 to 10 in favour of industrial action including strike a little over a week ago.

Is that 'rumbling' big enough for you?

2nd Aug 2001, 17:08
Balanced debate blogg, that's all I'm asking for....
So when is this strike going to take place???
Why are none of the other staff talking about it?

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: OneWorld22 ]

2nd Aug 2001, 17:27
Sorry, I was writing my last posting, as yours was added, OneWorld22.

My posting is not all about the Union Sacking issue, it is about Ryanair as a Company to work for.

I was responding to a professional pilot (I assume) who is interested in working for Ryanair. What I am saying is, be very careful if you are thinking about joining right now. There is a LOT of really vindictive nasty stuff going on internally, and it stems from the very top, and permiates right through the Company. There will be a lot of changes in the next few months, and most of them will be painful & unpleasant for everyone who works at Ryanair.

Yes, I have seen colleagues with less experience be posted home. I am on the wrong fleet.

But they are not happy either. Why would they want to rock the boat & vote to strike if they WERE happy ????

I guess it saddens me, because I think most of the agression is so unnecessary. Ryanair's basic formula is correct. But some members of Management are squeezing TOO hard (including MOL), and it makes for a very unstable & uncomfortable environment to work in. I admit working for a profitable Company is better than working for the 'other' one, and sometimes ANY job is better than none, but everyone has choices.

If you are a pilot out there looking for work why put yourself between a rock & a hard place if you may not have to? You want a career that will take you from right to left seat, and from old to new type, don't you? You want a quality of life with your family, ideally well paid, don't you?

I don't think any pilot would, if they are being honest with themselves, want to work for a Company when CLEARLY there is industrial relations problems, and will probably not deliver the goals outlined in the paragraph above....

So, still think I am talking through my ar*e, OneWorld22?

2nd Aug 2001, 18:29
No blogg, I don't think you're talking through your you know what. You have an opinion and it's a valid one.

My problem with this particular matter is this,
I have a different story from your one. I have it from someone very high up in FR that ths issue was simply that this guy refused the jump seat outright, that there was no 5 into 4 and he demanded aggressively that a Pax be taken off so he could sit in the cabin.

Now, once again that's what I've heard
happened. I wasn't there so therfore it's all heresay and I have no idea if it's the truth. So what is the truth? The only way of finding that out is getting both sides to present their arguments and then making an informed judgement after getting all the facts.
I've no doubt this will happen as if what you're saying is true then obviously there's a good case for an unfair dismissal hearing. But I've also heard MOL has no fear of this.
As for the working conditions and current culture of Ryanair I'd love to hear from more Ryanair pilots on all of this. let's get Compton involved for example.

2nd Aug 2001, 18:41
Oh God not him again...reason flys out the window!

2nd Aug 2001, 21:47
Firstly,to sgt.something the article is not old as i just got that biz plus this morning thanks to eircell.and the heading was"the best share since sliced bread".this refers to ryanairs great share price increase over the last few years.

Stand by your man
2nd Aug 2001, 22:12

I also am Irish. I am proud of the success Ryanair has had. This does not mean that I can endorse the ****e we've all had to put with lately. I do not detect any anti-Irishness in the comments from fellow ppruners or other FR employees. However, FR's failures are many and its getting worse by the day. To point out such failures (see other thread!) is not anti-Irish. It's merely anti-bad management, anti bullying, anti intimidation, anti-fatiguing work patterns, anti-failure to honour contracts/promises, anti-sacking of union leaders on trumped up charges etc. I think the Irish nation has grown up enough to put such colonial era paranoia behind us. Lets be proud of our successes and accept honest criticism of our undesirable elements.

BTW, your info on the Martin Duffy sacking is SO wrong. I have spoken DIRECTLY to 6 witnesses who confirm MD's position that there was a 4/5 situation. I believe that even the company "witnesses" eg Mr. CD don't even dispute this. Would love to know your "contact", can you indicate what level we're talking about. It does not surprise me that FR staffers would toe the company line. Being yelled at by O'Leary kinda does that to you. Ask your contact how he feels about the Monday meetings - senior managers have been known to be physically sick in anticipation of the ritual bollockings.

3rd Aug 2001, 01:50
Stand by your man, I accept your points as well. If you've spoken to 6 people who were actually there at the time then I'll have to accept that. That's all I was asking for, people who were in fact there.
With that as the case, I would imagine that MD is in pole position to put in a hefty claim against the company on the lines of unfair dismissal.

If what you're saying is true about the current climate in FR then I really am dismayed. That's not the company that my friend who retired worked for. On his last ever flight for FR which terminated in DUB, MOL met him at the bottom of the steps with a Gin and tonic to salute him. Then a massive session was had by all at the Coachman's. You might know who I'm talking about, ex Capt NO'F. He used to tell me of the great FR golf outings that MOL would send them on, all expenses paid. It was work hard and get paid well.

I'm sorry for everyone at FR if all that's changed. Why has it changed?

By the way my contact is extremely high up!

3rd Aug 2001, 02:15
Oneworld22, I think the difference was that N O'F was connected. And you know what I mean by that even better than I do (if you know him as well as you say). A nice guy. One who never made waves...never needed to either.
Great golfer by all accounts.
Does MOL play often?
I'll say no more.

Schoolkid, the title of the BizPlus article was "Ryanair. The best share since sliced bread ?"

Note the QUESTION MARK. Veery important that question mark. They seemed to think not, by the way.

MOL's management style (the bawl 'em out school of business) was learned right at Tony seniors knee. A past master in trade.

Speaking of trade. Did you know that MOL's previous business experience was running a newsagents? Strange...but true!

3rd Aug 2001, 12:38
OneWorld22 - There's your responses. Unfortunately you cannot ask for the 'real' story to any topic on this forum. Who would you believe. It doesn't matter whether someone swears blind that they were actually there or they spoke to witnesses, you will never know. After all this is 'Rumours and News', a title which which requires a bit logical reading between the lines, and take from it what you want. Between this thread and others regarding this matter and others, you have to come to one conclusion: the Ryanair pilot body is unhappy (it is staring you in the face). That is one thing that the management do not understand. They can quite happily throw agreements at us that promise increased everything, but they unfortunately do not have the abitlity to increase moral. I personally do not know how it can be done. It is certainly not going to happen over night.

I joined over two years ago and I got everything that I was promised from Ryanair. It is very, very sad what has happened since then. Ryanair have never lied to me. What they have promised me today, has happened. Unfortunately, they will never promise you a tomorrow. Yes I have job security, but no job stability. 'Here today, gone tomorrow' as the saying goes. Gone where? To Hahn, on lower pay than all my colleagues, with only a suitcase after a week. Maybe, I'm only guessing!!

3rd Aug 2001, 15:44
Sorry to break the main thrust of this thread, but oneworld has it wrong regarding the 'brits' not liking the 'Irish'. Just not true.

Absolute piffle.

As for the yanks though........

Stand by your man
3rd Aug 2001, 19:23

Yeah, agree with Sensible re N O F. 1st class guy. That retirement scenario wouldn't happen now, though. MOL would be more likely to get the G&T poured over him by a retiring Capt. This happy family stuff is a myth. The CRL based guys were invited to a summer soiree recently and didn't go. (reckoning Ryanairs action re their pay and base etc. spoke louder than a cheap plss-up) Wow. Nerve end touched! They each got a letter reminding them that their futures (base transfers, command etc.) were entirely at the company's discrettion and their ABSENCE WAS NOTED. The intimidation just gets worse. Why? What does your contact say? If s/he is extremely high up, then such a perspective would be interesting. My guess is that raw naked fear permeates the FR corridors of power.

Kaptin M
3rd Aug 2001, 19:58
Having followed this, and the other Ryansair threads for the past couple of weeks, I'd like to pass an "observer's" comment om my overall opinion of this company.

To me, it appears that MO'L (and consequently ryanair as a company) don't care two hoots about pilot experience or turnover. They are a low-cost airline (meaning they pay low wages to their staff) which doesn't intend committing itself to long term obligations eg. incremental salary increases, holiday benefits, long service leave, pension schemes, etc.
In fact, as they see it, a reasonable continued turnover of staff is preferable to the "stayers". The message is "There is NO FUTURE with Ryanair - it is a 'stepping-stone airline." Management is trying to give you this message by way of their actions, rightly or wrongly in your eyes.

The poor salaries, and less than average working conditions are there to remind you that Ryanair wants you only for as long as you NEED to tolerate them - when you have enough experience, then move on, and allow your miserably remunerated position to be filled by another up-and-coming, whose skills have not been honed sharply enough to allow him/her the opportunity to gain employment with a higher class of employer.

Use Ryanair for what it is - an aviation whore - that will allow you to practise your basic skills in it, before casting it aside for something with a more respected reputation.

And there's no need to say "Thank you" as you part company, because you've both got what you wanted from the relationship, during your (brief) interlude!

4th Aug 2001, 15:08
Gee Guys, Ryanair - nuff said.
Anyone know what happened to the Capt they 'services no longer required' one morning,(actually 0635 on a Sunday morning from what I hear) in Jan 01. What was his crime?

The Guvnor
4th Aug 2001, 15:34
From an unbiased outsider's viewpoint, I'd like to make a couple of comments.

1) Ruling by fear the "bawl 'em out school of business" as CaptSensible says is never a good way to run a company. Why? Because if you're treated like a dog, sooner or later you'll bite back. Also, you become innured to the abuse and therefore when it really counts it's disregarded. Far better is the iron fist in a velvet glove approach - as employed by Barbara Cassani.

2) Irish aviation is not so much about what you know but who you know. Most of the bods at Hawkins House are ex Air Corps, and if you're ex Air Corps as well you're A for Away ... and if you want to set up an operation over there you get pointed in the direction of a bod who would "make a great Flight Ops Director/Chief Pilot" ... and surprise surprise, he's ex Air Corps! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

3) I'd be wondering where growth is going to come from to keep the shareholders happy. The UK market is pretty much saturated these days, and FR needs to be expanding further into Europe. The only problem is that - despite the so-called open skies that's supposed to exist in Europe today - domestic markets are almost impossible to break into. Germany would be a logical next step, but they'll be blocked by Lufthansa and the competition from high speed rail links is problematic as well.

Incidentally, Capt Sensible you're right about MO'L having a newsagents ... when he gave up his training as a chartered accountant he bought into one, and leveraged that up into another, and another, and another...!

4th Aug 2001, 17:43
Maybe he should have stuck to the newsagents Guv.

Stand by your man
6th Aug 2001, 23:23
Ryanairs interim results due tomorrow. Watch out for much trumpeting of increased profits.......disguising a drastic fall in margins. Look closely at depreciation figures too. Go figure why MO'L and the Bros Ryan are selling as fast as they can offload. ;)

7th Aug 2001, 11:47
Margins Falling ?

Operating Profit up 29%
Operating Margin still 19%

Profit After Tax up 28%
Net Profit Margin still 15%

Depreciation up 18% (10 new aircraft) :p

8th Aug 2001, 01:08
Thanks for the memo who ever sent it.
MEMO: to all UK based pilots
Date: 10 Jan 01
From: Dep Chief Pilot
Ref: Fuel

Ladies and Gentlemen.

The folowing table is extracted from the Voyage Reports 03 Jan to 09 Jan 2001 indicating fuel on arrival in STN from DUB on 200 Fleet.

03 Jan 4200kgs
04 Jan 4800kgs, 4500kgs, 4300kgs
05 Jan 5100kgs
06 Jan 4200kgs, 4300kgs
07 Jan 4400kgs, 4600kgs
08 Jan 4400kgs, 4400kgs, 4400kgs
09 Jan 4300kgs

This level of inefficiency is unacceptable.

Signed Capt

Isn't Jan winter in the UK?
Therefore possibility of that world renown crap BRITISH weather.
Can anyone tell me if it was "A bad week" re WX?
Was the wx near Cat 1 min & they carried extra fuel in case it deterioated? (and had to divert back to DUB or PIK)
Were they new Capts on upgrade & had increased mins?
Did they carry extra fuel due Wx forecast indicating possible holding, but wx improve and they made an approach & were lucky to land while others were unlucky & had to G/A?
Which is cheaper and more commercially efficient- Carry on extra 30min fuel or divert 100miles? (The diversion would cost 2hrs in delays to the rest of the days schedule)
How many pilots have been sacked for landing with TOO much fuel?
What is the most useless thing on board an acft after the gear is up? Air in the fuel tanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Still I'd rather get bollocked than have to open the crossfeed and fail a Line check for not having sufficient fuel.

Remember the Irish Army Air Corps Helo that crashed near Waterford? - not enough fuel?
Isnt Dep CP also from the 'Brown shoe Brigade'?
Profits v Safety ?
:eek: http://

8th Aug 2001, 01:23
MO'L has just been on the 10 o'clock news stating possibly overtaking BA in 5-6 years time and been the largest airline in Europe in 10 years..! Very ambitious, but i'm sure if there is one CEO capable it's MO'L.

Analyst's also reckon there could be some casualties in the low-cost sector.

The Guvnor
8th Aug 2001, 11:28
Ryanair profits soar 28% as it warns Boeing on 737 pricing
Dateline: Wednesday August 08, 2001

Repeating the success enjoyed by its North American low-fare counterparts Southwest Airlines and WestJet, Ryanair shrugged off the effects of the business travel downturn and posted record profits for its fiscal first quarter ended June 30.

The budget airline had after-tax earnings of eur23.2 million ($20.5 million), up 28% over
eur18.1 million earned in the year-ago period. "Ryanair's strong growth…reflects the
successful rollout of our low-fares formula on 13 new routes across Europe," said CEO
Michael O'Leary. "We continue to grow traffic in both new and existing markets because Ryanair remains the only airline in Europe which guarantees its fares will be the lowest."

Operating revenues rose 31% to eur150.8 million on a 42% increase in passengers to
2.4 million offset by lower yields, while operating expense climbed 32% to eur122.1
million. Operating profit jumped 29% to eur28.8 million from eur22.3 million.

Ryanair also announced it has cancelled options on five 737-800s scheduled for
delivery between and March and May 2003 and warned that it could cancel 12 other
737s due in 2004-05 "unless pricing begins to reflect the current market realities." The
carrier added that it is in "active discussions" to purchase up to 50 used 737-300s and dash 400s, "which will adequately meet our fleet expansion from 2003 onwards." [/quote]

8th Aug 2001, 13:26
Didn't he (MOL) say in Flight that these 737-800 orders and options will only meet immediate requirements, and that the 50 extra aircraft he was seeking were needed over and above what had already been arranged with Boeing?
So now, a day later, he doesn't need them anymore? Or perhaps he doesn't need to pay the price anymore!

The Guvnor
8th Aug 2001, 13:28
Does this mean your cunning plan to flog them lots of 73s has gone out the window, Tug? I was looking forward to that drink, as well!! :D :D :D

Speedbrake Lever
8th Aug 2001, 14:41
Well Ryanair now there's a thing !!

Due to a little bit of forward planning a rare occurrence on my part
I opened up the Ryanair web page yesterday really very early in the morning and there was these promises of YES very cheap fares if you book between 7-9 August so there I was happy as a lollipop

right try and book them FORGET IT
I tried every route from Dublin within there criteria and the cheapest i came up with was 24-38 to Luton there all supposed to be 1,5,7,10 depending on where you go

Is this Ryanair ??

I've not travelled with them before nor shall I

They should be had for this

seeing as its now 8 Aug try their site yourself and see what you come up with

This is their Commercial side admittedly but whats the rest of it like



8th Aug 2001, 15:14
Yeah, I was too slow; trying to flog the Astra proved harder than I thought. I reckoned it was a fair trade on aircraft 3 x its age. Back to solving perpetual motion.

Stand by your man
11th Aug 2001, 01:39

Looks like the real bean counters back my view. Share price down 20c on Tuesday in response to results, down another 18 on Wednesday, down a whopping 45c on Thursday and down another 7c today. The markets have obviously copped on to the real story, even though the journos, probably force fed a diet of Ryanair PR, are happy to regurgitate the self congratulatory twaddle from O’Leary.

11th Aug 2001, 08:34
Is it true that Ryan Air management are prepared to accept a hull loss as a trade off for lowering standards in the flight deck? Fast tracking people into positions they may not necessarily be ready for?
Any comments from people in the training department, and what kind of pressure have you been put under to get results?

Tom the Tenor
11th Aug 2001, 13:26
Well, Ellion, it looks you must have had a long evening on some strong Belgian beers last night, Friday, to come up with something as far out as that ;) !

11th Aug 2001, 21:09
I've read allmost all the messages in this section but there's still the question from the beginning (do'nt remember the name) what you can expect during the interview. Please give us some info about this. I'm having the interview this week, i'm a low timer and will defenitly take the job when they offer it to me. pls be fast and tell me what they ask?

12th Aug 2001, 00:40
Lellowbird, In Jan 01 the IAA withdrew Ryanairs training authority. That means Ryanair could not conduct its own conversion training. They have it back now. If you're Irish you're in. ;)

12th Aug 2001, 00:55
If you got 12 grand and willing to give it to Ryanair to pay for your type rating with no guarantee of a job your in.

12th Aug 2001, 01:11
Yellowbird if you're prepared to go and work for a company that can (and will) fire you for no good reason, actively seek that you exceed 900hrs a year etc go knock yourself out. Alternatively you could try banging your head off a brick wall. Good luck.

12th Aug 2001, 10:41
Ryanair Pilot employment contract states that you as a pilotagree to only 4 (FOUR) crews will be employed per acft. IAA FCL only allow 900 hrs/pilot/year. However FRs -800 from STN do 6 sectors/day averaging 2hrs/sector. Multiply by 6 days = 72hrs, + 4 sectors on Sunday = 80hrs /acft/week. Multiply by 50wks(its easier) = 4000hrs/acft/year. BUT, you've all signed a contract agreeing to 4 crews/acft, AND you can only do 900hrs/year. My maths tells me 4x900 =3600hrs. Where do the other 400hrs go? I bet DOB & MOL won't tell you.

Still haven't heard about the guy they gave 'services no longer required' at 0635 one Sun morning in Jan without notice. Any thoughts or facts? :confused:

12th Aug 2001, 19:00

Nice one my man....one message thread ended, because of the amount of postings on it (surely this shows interest) and you start the ball rolling all over again with more Anti-Fr writings. BTW, how come you only posted some of the negative sections of the article on Ryanair and not one of the positive ones..!!! Picky or what..

Give us all a break, I hate the weather here in Ireland just as much as you hate Ryanair...but for Gods sake, I am not constantly complaining about,

To help with your pain.. I recommend some valium, rest and no PC use for about 4 weeks, you should notice a huge upturn in your mood and may even start enjoying life

12th Aug 2001, 19:47
Just out of interest, 4 crews per A/C that's 4 Capt's and 4 Fo's by 50 that's 400 souls.

Firstly how are they going to find that many people and secondly assuming that they're not going to be type-rating or logged on to Ryan Air's SOP's, train them?

I'll put money on it that they won't all be British or from the Republic

12th Aug 2001, 20:15
has anyone out there heard about a mooted bank guarantee system...effectively paying up front for your type-rating?

12th Aug 2001, 21:17
Yer a gas man Flame (ooo'er...could be a volatile mix, :D ).

I haven't posted on this thread since page 2.

Maybe you think I'm out there forcing everyone to write negative comments about FR, huh?
Ok. I admit it. I'm really awful aren't I.

12th Aug 2001, 22:52
Am I the only one in the world who thinks FR are demoralising the traditions of flight. They cut out all the bits that make flying fun and just make it like a frickin bus journey.Air travel will become so much a part of every day life it will not be a special experience....


12th Aug 2001, 23:41
Flame as much as I admire your constant upholding of the FR principles etc (which baffles me but anyway), it's like car insurance in our lovely little country - there's no point saying "stop complaining" unless you have something constructive to offer.
Now Ryanair are very efficient - it's a given - all flights get prioritised stands at DUB, ground crew are all ready to go there's virtually no delay for pax to get off, bags etc. Very good indeed. But there's something wrong when a company gets its own ego over inflated enough to think that they can treat their staff like the proverbial and get away with it. It sets a precedent (I'm repeating myself now) for ALL their employees and anyone else who wants to start a "low fares" [sic] airline. It's time that FR management stopped acting silly beggars and come into line with the rest of the industry or there'll be no more figures like there was this year....have load factors gone up from their lowest of 50-60% on certain routes from DUB last year? Why won't MOL spend the money on new aircraft? Is he worried about future earnings??

13th Aug 2001, 05:01
Capt Sensible..

Me thinks your not forcing anyone to do anything, but surely even you are getting fed up writing the same old dribble all the time...Remember...valium, and the "no PC rule " just for a few weeks at least..

I think if you check out the actual load factors you will find them nearer to %81 and not the 50-60% as you state, also surely you are not calling B737-800 old aircraft

"Why won't MOL spend the money on new aircraft? Is he worried about future earnings??"

In case you have not noticed, prices for second hand aircraft are currently falling faster than the value of the Euro and from a commercial point of view it makes good business sense to "play the field" and obtain these aircraft at a cheaper price than the 800'S, these 737-300/400's are actually replacing the -200's. and as for your comment about future earnings...I certainly hope that he has this in mind, he is answerable to shareholders and is running a PLC not a Charitable organisation, perhaps if EI had been run the same way, it would not find itself in the present quagmire it is in


13th Aug 2001, 19:20
SBYM looks like you're right, down again today. Must be selling RYA and buying EZY. Its going to be a rough November for the Orange.

13th Aug 2001, 21:25
Flame fair enough and no, -800s are certainly not old - I'd like to get my hands on one! But I stand by my load factor figures (from y/e 2000.)
As for MOL being answerable to ANYBODY I can't wait for the day!!! He doesn't particularly seem to care about anyone else at the minute...

13th Aug 2001, 22:35
Dont worry.Molly is screwing ye which ever way you look at it.When ARE THEY EVER going to get rid of those rustbucket 200s? :p :p

14th Aug 2001, 02:40
OK Flame, if it'll make you happy I'll just retire.

No seriously...I'd been thinking about it anyhow. Got tired of this old sensible name...maybe I'll try something different.

So Danny or £6, would you mind doing the necessary and putting me out of your misery. Go ahead, it would be an act of mercy.

Bye all, it's been fun. ;)

Stand by your man
15th Aug 2001, 16:09
Welcome back Flame. Never did get a definitive view from you on the last thread, eh? :D

Capt Sensible. Leaving? Surely not?

17th Aug 2001, 02:24
Capt Sensible;

Come on...please dont go...who will I have banter with then...???? (putting my sabre away for good)

Stand by your man..
To be honest, I went away on business, got back and found the thread closed, and then lost interest, but it was fun while it lasted
:cool: ;) :cool: ;)

17th Aug 2001, 03:41
Actually there are alot of companies furloughing pilots that either have B737 rating or are willing to sign a bond for three years.

17th Aug 2001, 16:32
Oh really, fill us in. Am rated, willing to travel but no job.