View Full Version : Ryanair-Capt's airside/Armed Forces ID bad-Student ID good (Merged)

2nd Jan 2003, 22:25
Foolishly pitched up for an internal UK flight with Ryan clutching my "photo ID" as required in the form of my staff ID c/w sexy picture of yours truly in uniform.Point blank refused at check in as the only acceptable forms of ID are passport,national ID card,photo drivers licence or STUDENT ID-Yep,the one you faked to get into the pub when you were 16!.These conditions are clearly stated on page 23 of the Ryan terms and conditions.
Left wife and baby crying at check in,drove home like a loony for passport,payed hefty "handling fee"for transfer to next flight.Same check in staff glanced at passport for a microsecond then issued ticket.
Who needs common sense when you've got a "policy"

2nd Jan 2003, 22:49
I can't see the point of the security ID anymore - to get the thing issued we needed a passport, birth certificate, several other forms of photo identification and a full federal police background check. Now when I clear customs into Australia, they dont want to see my ID, they want to see my passport for all of .05 of a second.......

......and apparently we have improved the security levels.....

2nd Jan 2003, 22:58
Further to the other similiarly titled thread....
Tonight I was travelling as a pax through LHR to DUB. As I got to the end of the travellator tube just at gate N80 I saw a scruffy looking passenger approach the security woman seated at the door and I heard him ask her if it was OK to go back up the passage (the wrong way) to duty free to 'get something he forgot'. The security woman says - 'sure, no problem'.

Now, I have tried on two occassions...in full uniform...as operating crew...to do the same thing when I wanted to visit the magazine stall in the same area, and guess what?
Yes...I was refused entry.

Perhaps some security person out there can explain this to me, because I'm beginning to feel like someones taking the **** out of aircrew in LHR. :mad: :mad:

2nd Jan 2003, 23:36
I work in ATC, the tower is airside.
I've got through security in a mates car flashin a driving licence, a storecard and a library ticket!!!

The whole security issue is a joke.

Why didn't I make an issue of it???????????

Because company policy would have meant big problems for me!!!!

Security needs to be checked at all levels, not just by gov inspectors, we should all be encouraged to flash a driving licence and see what happens and then report it.

3rd Jan 2003, 09:48
I too have been turned away by Ryanair for no photo-id. Last year they used to accept UK driving licences (no photo), then suddenly they didn't. Go away. And we keep your money (well, it wasn't very much!).

This was for LPL-DUB. My passport was at home in London. Passports, btw, are not required for UK-Ireland travel. Got across to MAN, bought a ticket on Aer Lingus to Dublin. No problem. But with an overnight hotel and the high cost one way EI ticket (I was returning EI to LHR anyway) it cost about £300. OK, so my company pays, these things happen from time to time as we travel round the country. But what about some poor private punter?

It has NOTHING to do with security (otherwise why do BA/EI not require it, or why is it not a CAA requirement?).

3rd Jan 2003, 10:05
It just makes you wonder what the rules for staff travel are; staff ID, and passport etc?

3rd Jan 2003, 10:34
could it be to do with overbooking and in the list of excuses?

ex jump pilot
3rd Jan 2003, 11:18
Last year got away with a COSTCO card when I went to Scotland (though I did wonder at first whether passports had become necessary to enter that beautiful country....)

3rd Jan 2003, 11:50
OK so correct me if I am wrong:

1- Book flight on web site
2- Travel to airport
3- Produce photo ID as required (all info given when booking)
4- Produce booking confirmation
5- Get handed boarding card
6- Proceed to gate

Where’s the problem? Has worked for me every time.

3rd Jan 2003, 12:46
I think the problem is the photo ID (secutity ID) that is supposedly the most thoroughly checked and hardest to get is not considered acceptable when passengering, Yet it is when you operate the aircraft. Doesn't make sense.

3rd Jan 2003, 13:33
all info given when booking ... Where’s the problem?

It's fine if you do the travel arranging yourself rather than working through one or two layers of admin/secretarial staff back at the office, who just end up text-messaging you a locator ref for this evening's flight while you are in a meeting up country. I'm sorry to be so busy for those airline people who think we should spend our days reading their various different Ts and Cs, but we are where your business comes from. I have to say if I treated my customers with this "Ya Ha Ha you haven't got your paperwork right" attitude I would be fired! And I'm very happy to co-operate with security requirements. Ryanair photo-id is not one of these.

Oh, and the Ryanair e-mailed "confirmation information" runs to 7 closely-typed A4 pages. A recent trip STN-DUB-PIK-STN required 3 of these as the FR booking system regards such as 3 single trips. So a 21-page document. Said admin staff put it all through the office binding machine for me. Ticketless travel!

3rd Jan 2003, 15:50
A small step in the right direction - at LGW our ID's are now passed through a card swipe when we go through security. Some new Cabin Crew were not permitted to go airside last week as their details were not in the system - doubtless annoying for the crew involved (and Ops!), but at least it shows the system picks up invalid ID's.

3rd Jan 2003, 15:55
Dear Homer
Which part of ''all passengers must present valid photo id.THE
only valid forms of photo id are passport,driving licence with
photo or intl student id card''....didnt you understand then?
These reqs are not printed on p23 of terms and conditions only
but are featured every time you book on ryan.com. In fact i
believe the sys wont let u make a booking unless u first confirm
that u have read and agree to comply with this photo id policy.
If u agree to abide by this policy then stop complaining.
Better photo id on domestic routes improves security (certainly
better than none) and this policy has been in place since abt

april last year.

TO summarize, policy is clear,is brought to your notice,and u agree
to it as condition of booking.....so what exactly is ur problem?

3rd Jan 2003, 19:56
My problem?
My wife booked the ticket so I didn't see the obscure piece of smallprint you refer to.The printout with the flight details and locator only mention "photo ID"-Which I brought in good faith.The said details are on page two along with the" party of the second part notwithstanding the etc etc" legalese mumbo jumbo.Do you read all this-really.I don't dispute that I failed to abide by the booking conditions.
All that is not the point.The point is that my identity was confirmed by a far more stringently vetted document than a bloody student ID.The Check in staff were more than satisfied as to who I was.I was forced to leave a crying wife and baby and ruin my plans.The staff failed to grasp that a little common sense,customer relations,discretion,and an understanding of the POINT of security checks are infinitly more important than the minutae of the terms and conditions.They made me ruin my day and waste money then barely glanced at my passport.
Frankly it worries me that check in staff who are the first link in the security chain so monumentaly fail to understand the object of these procedures.I have absolutely no doubt that if I'd booked the ticket as "M Mouse" and produced Micky's student card they would have issued the ticket.
Ryanair collected a hefty rebooking fee and kept the tax from the first ticket.The procedure for collecting tax paid on unused tickets from Ryan is so obstructive as to virtually ensure they keep it.They also charge a handling fee for this. I suspect Ryan use a deliberate policy of refusal as a revenue generation tool .I've witnessed the "Flight is closed you will need to catch the next one" even when the inbound is delayed on umpteen occasions.As a Captain if I'm still sitting on the ramp with a delay and I can accept a "runner" without a problem or further delay I'm happy to do it.Ryan seem to be deliberately obstructive and I bet it's all about extra money.
Does that answer your question.
P.s Iluv2fly,when you registered on pprune you must have clicked the "I've read the T&C's "box but did you,go on, did you?.

3rd Jan 2003, 20:41
ID cards? How did you get those? Obviously not from Teesside International (no, really - international) - 4 months on and I'm still waiting for mine. Now that's what I call security - nobody gets in.:mad:

Big Kahuna Burger
3rd Jan 2003, 21:17
Common sense from the FR duty (mis)manager is what should have been called for.

Cynical about FRs policies......... Oh yes.

Its all about seeing the big picture and not getting hopelessly lost in the minutiae of the details. So I guess that Homers critics will be sitting there going around in circles in the hold, with the fire warning light on, waiting to get below max landing weight. Ideal. Daft numpties.

3rd Jan 2003, 21:28
Sounds like they train Nationwide Building Society staff too....

Went into my branch, where I have held an account for nearly 15 years, to draw some cash on my credit card to be paid direct into my current account. They needed photo ID too...

... produced BAA security ID - unrestricted access to LGW -not acceptable, despite being accompanied by company photo ID. I was also in company uniform at the time.

... produced photocard driving licence - not acceptable unless you have the paper part too.

... told passport would be OK - getting rather annoyed now - told them I don't routinely carry my passport for a 4 mile round trip into town. Also could use my birth certificate instead - no photo and copies freely available from register office.

... told I can't draw any cash then. Got very cross and asked to see manager. Queue behind now about 9 people as only one cashier on duty at 1400hrs on a Friday.

... manager says, after call to head office, that this time they will make an exception for me as I was obviously unware of their procedures!

THEN... tell me that I can't draw cash on my Visa card as they are affiliated to Mastercard and don't accept Visa!!!!

It was only the fact I was in uniform that I managed to refrain from smacking someone in the mouth and shouting obsenities at them. Still whats 40 minutes of my time?

Now I bank with First Direct!

atomic angel uk
4th Jan 2003, 11:25
We started handling FR a whille ago and the biggest prob for us is that we are not able to use our discretion.

If we know that a pax had incorrect ID but is trav one way and they have ID of another description that obviously proves that its them then we can be flexible under the correct circumstance, however if that pax is on return there is no way that the DSM at STN will allow us to use our discretion. If we were to allow pax travel it would be picked up on return, and would cause us major probs.

We have to turn police ID, Military and even crew passes away which causes us major grief but as handling agents are simply not able to break (silly!) rules that FR make.

Homer just as a matter of interest did they IROP you to next flight at discretionary £40 per pax or charge more??

4th Jan 2003, 16:29
There's a reason companies like FR probably don't like the minimum wage laws: it ruins their cost base. But they could at least employ people who deserve being paid that much!

4th Jan 2003, 16:57
Moan, moan, moan.........

Captain Max
4th Jan 2003, 21:28
As has already been pointed out, Ryanair are the only carrier that appear to be insisting on this and adopting an inflexible approach.
It isn't anything to do with security as knowing somebodies name wouldn't stop somebody attempting a hi-jack.

Its just another excuse to bump people off the flight and sell the seat again. I'm convinced the staff actually enjoy doing this.

makes you wonder what ID their own positioning staff use?

5th Jan 2003, 14:18
Simple answer don,t fly Ryanair ever under any circumstances,I did once DUB-LTN at my companies behest never again.They are now the only European airline we are forbidden to use for company travel on account of low standards in every area of their operation.Even by the standards of the other low quality operators they are dreadful.Don,t bookwith them and your much less likely to suffer disapointment/bad treatment. :rolleyes:

5th Jan 2003, 15:09

5th Jan 2003, 16:11

After that amazing outburst above like something from the nursery, is there any wonder that the posters above, myself included, are so disgusted at the standards of service your airline give to your paying customers. I presume your attitude reflects that of your fellow Ryanair crew as well.

That’s the end of me or any of my staff using Ryanair, in the same way as Stampe describes above. Whatever would you be like in an aircraft emergency?

5th Jan 2003, 23:59
if you are daft enough to fly Ryanair in the first place you deserve all you get........ never have, never would. :D

6th Jan 2003, 00:23
O.K, guys..

For what its worth..a few lines from me........................

Photo I.D being required by Ryanair, in my opinion is a good idea, but its the way its being implemented that is the problem. Here in Ireland, and as best I am aware, in the U.K, the company will not accept Police I.D as being valid for travel, yet they will accept a student card. I am aware of at least two students here in Ireland, who have obtained fake Student ID on the web in order to gain access to pubs etc etc.

Those working in the security area at any airport, will be very much aware of the amount of False / counterfeit driving Licences, passports, and other forms of I.D that are doing the rounds, yet..the company will not accept Police I.D...can someone / anyone explain this to me..?

The U.K government is currently studying a security system called "Borderguard" with a view to having all airlines entering the U.K using the system. The very basis of this system is that all passengers will provide photo I.D

Watch this space very carefully over the coming months..more and more airlines will be requiring photo I.D

One must remember, that for flights between the CTA (Common Travel area) between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom, citizens of either country do not need to carry passports with them, all other citizens however, do.

6th Jan 2003, 08:44
WHBM I take objection to you labeling ALL Ryanair crew as unprofessional. I am one of those crew members and take the greatest pride in flying safely and to the best of my abilities. To insinuate that the pilots would be unable to cope with an emergency is tantermount to libel.

We all have to undergo sim checks, line checks etc etc and pass them to the same high standard as ANY airline low cost or not.

Am I to assume that you as an IT manager have never made a mistake and neither have any of your staff? If not, does that reflect all IT personnel?

With your GREAT experience in aviation as a fair weather PPL holder flying PA28s I think you need to wind your neck in and think a little before putting pen to paper, especialy as to peoples abilities in jobs you know little about.

6th Jan 2003, 10:09
With your GREAT experience in aviation

...at least I've never set off for an airport that was closed for the day !!


6th Jan 2003, 10:29
As someone who works sometimes in security (Ok when asked I'll help in a nightclub - 3/4 times in last 6 months).

We ask for ID (mainly for age) in a lot of cases. There are several forged driving licences and National Age cards, and it has been simple for a long time to get forged ISICs (this is Dublin BTW. London used to be easy too back in 1990).
We stay up on the current state of play regarding what forgeries look like from the simple to the reasonably well-done.

Without prejudice to any checkin staff, with any airline I travel with including FR the photo-id check is cursory no matter what airport (Except transatlantic) . It's not their (checkin agents) job to know what the current generation of forgeries look like. They want to take your case and move on to the next punter.

However, The FR employee/handling agent cannot waive the condition without (probably) losing their employment, and MOL probably wouldn't. Reasonableness is not a hallmark of FR

As someone said - got airside by flashing their Costco discount card !

Just my $0.05

6th Jan 2003, 12:05
WHBM I love your holyer than thou attitude, glad you never make mistakes. Just for the record I wasn't one of the pilots on that flight.

I just hope one of your 'foolproof' programs isnt installed on any aircraft I ever fly.

Stick to your PA28 it will be much safer for aviation in general.

6th Jan 2003, 12:43
Fabulous doggerel from the anti ryan loonies.Crazier than usual.
Lets try this again children!
(1)Fr req photo id at ticketless check in
(2)Only..ie ONLY (geddit fools) passport,drivers lic,or intl student
travel cards accepted.So no police id or anything else will do
(3)All pax agree to abide by these rules BEFORE booking
(4)Even homer confirms that Marge made his booking,so his prob
lies with Marge not Fr
(5)Every airline is perfectly entitled to make its own rules, and in
this case they couldnt be clearer!
(6)This rule is simple,and understand from sales guy in Stn this am
that student tvl card simply allows for kids in 16-20age grp
to tvl when might not have passport or driving licence.
(7)All other police,army,crews have passports so for gods sake
shut up and stop crying!
As for the other rantings of our loony friends may i reply;
Firestorm-min wage in Fr is irrelevant, ave pay in Fr is now higher
than Easy,Luft,BA,andEI.Smoke that!
Capt Max-all fr staff must produce passport or d licence and we do
without any of the moaning on pprune
Stampe-What low standards? We're No1 for on-times&pax growt
or maybe you know better than 15m pax?
WHBM-dont be disgusted for our paying customers.They grew
last month by 64%.Seems pax LOVE FR!

I never cease to be amazed why all you anti ryan clowns never
can explain why Fr and Easy keep growing like crazy whilst all you
lot can do is rant and rave. Pax vote with their feet. 64% growth
suggests that public have no prob with photo id,so again i beg you..... shut the f*** up if youve nothing sensible to say.

6th Jan 2003, 14:50
Here, here ILUVTOFLY.

Reasoned sensible argument. A requirement is a requirement clearly stated and agreed to.

It would appear that the others would like auld Esther Ranzid on the case...


Final 3 Greens
6th Jan 2003, 15:24
I've no great lover of FR, but they state very clearly what their rules are and enforce them consistently.

We all have our own opinions about these rules, but the matter of fact is that a contract is formed with them embeded into the terms and conditions and the whole process is transparent.

If you don't like the approach, then you are perfectly entitled to vote with your feet (or mouse clicks.)

Easyjet once cancelled a flight on the day of operation, leaving my family and I at Palma, to sort out our own arrangements; they were quite entitled to do that too, it was in the terms and we received those before booking the flights.

At the end of the day, anyone entering freely into a contract should have made themselves aware of the rules before doing so - Caveat Emptor.

As a fairly regular FR user (based on convenience, not cost), I can't say that I really enjoy the experience, but also acknowledge they have always followed their t&cs to the letter. Also, not often mentioned here, the cabin crew are invariably friendly, if not always quite as polished as on the flag carriers.

It's my choice as to whether I travel with them and for the moment it suits me to do so. It's yoiur choice to use whoever you wish.

As a business consultant, I know that the price of flexibility is a heavy overhead for a business (far more expensive than might be imagined), so I would suggest that this is why it is lacking in a volume/discount model such as FR where running the sausage factory with the lowest cost base is obviously important.

So no whinging from me, just an acknowledgment that you get what you pay for and my last return ticket to Brussels was around GBP35 inc taxes, for peak time flights.

So once again, before I get flamed, I don't carry a torch for FR, but their approach in ID is straightforward and transparent and I cannot see any justification for attacking them for enforcing it consistently.

7th Jan 2003, 12:34
DistantRumble - I disagree. Surely checkin agents are the first line of defence against fraudulent ID? They should be trained how to spot possible forgeries - at least as well as nightclub door staff ;) - so that dubious cases can be referred upwards.

So, I'm with FR's checkin staff on this one. I'd agree that rejecting an airside ID seems strict, but subjectivity breeds loopholes. If you give staff the discretion to allow non-standard papers, you lose a lot of control. But it does seem odd to allow student ID.

7th Jan 2003, 16:58
Is it not pretty obvious that Ryanairs poliocy has nothing to do whatsoever with security but is simply another way of boosting yield-revenue?
Having denied boarding to some unfortunate who has forgot or brought the wrong ID which in the recent past had been perfectly acceptable Ryanair will keep the cost of his ticket and then sell the same seat to another person who is on standby i.e. double revenue for one seat.In addition to that Ryanair will then probably collect a third fare when the poor unfortunate books on the next flight.

Good business practice eh?

Final 3 Greens
8th Jan 2003, 13:11

Call me naive, but I think its more likely that Ryanair need to have clear rules that can be applied easily across different handling agents on their network.

To make their business model work, they have to process pax as efficiently as possible - building in the flexibility of a debate over the validity of ID does to achieve this. (Supervisor time costs too.)

Also, when dealing with personnel who are often transient (check in agents), thus requiring ongoing recruitment and induction, these simple guidelines aid learning and retention for people who may lack prior experience.

e.g. I had to politely point out recently, to a new and helpful check in agent handling another carrier, that the cabin crew would not be best pleased if she allocated row 1 to my small kids and I; she had completely forgotten the regulations about exit rows from training, which I guess is understandable if you are taking in a lot of new information and struggling to get up to speed in a fast moving environment.

Of course, if the scenario you describe occurs, Ryanair will benefit, but my guess is that keeping it simple across the whole network is the primary driver for the ID rules.

BTW, I have consulted on airline ground ops, so my speculation is based on some foundation.

Whatever the reason, the outcome is clear with low cost carriers - transgress at your own peril - but in fairness they state this clearly in the booking info and if people do not read it or choose to ignore it, then I fear the subsequent argument is rather one sided.

At the end of the day, quality of customer care is a given for any business model, but it will vary from one to the next.

FR compare very well to Wagn railway (where even 1st class ticket holders are not guaranteed a seat on the London commuter routes, but not so well to BA. Lufthansa etc!

Departures Beckham
8th Jan 2003, 15:06
With regards to the original post regarding non-acceptance of airside ID, it is worth remembering that there is no standard airside ID card. Sure, most people would know what a BAA card looks like, but I haven't a clue what a PIK or DUB card looks like. I'm sure the majority of people with a PC could print out a genuine looking ID for a made-up airport, laminate it, and then argue with a check-in agent that it is a genuine ID card and if BAA ID cards are acceptable why is their card not.

By having a blanket rule, Ryanair are ensuring that they do not discriminate against any one person.

How many people know what an Eilat Airport ID card looks like?

9th Jan 2003, 07:47
It's all well and good to say "these are the rules and they're stated very clearly, here, here and here", but the point is that Ryanair's photo ID policy is as much of a joke as the rest of their customer service. Why the hell should you have to use a passport for an internal flight on Ryanair when you don't on the national Flag Carrier. When I have used Ryanair in the past I have carried my passport through necessity and not choice. Then again Flag Carrier airlines aren't in the habit of bumping passengers off of flights for no good reason and keeping their money.

People who look after the interests of the UK like Police Officers and Military Personnel are told their IDs are not valid for carriage but some dodgy geezer who has ordered their International Student ID from the pages of FHM or Maxim is given no hassle.

It may be the rules but the rules are clearly WRONG, I will not fly with Ryanair again and neither will anybody who asks my opinion of them although I will visit STN for their help with an ongoing project of mine.

"The Bumper Book of Revenue Earning Excuses"

ps. for the attention of "ILUV2FLY", I am quite certain that there are plenty of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Policemen who do not have passports!!!!!

Final 3 Greens
9th Jan 2003, 08:52

Why the hell should you have to use a passport for an internal flight on Ryanair when you don't on the national Flag Carrier.

Because it is in Ryanair's terms and conditions that you agree to when you make a contract with them (i.e. buy flights) and
The Flag Carrier's terms are different.

Airlines are businesses and they choose to operate in a way that suits their business model.

These business models are different to each other and this is reflected in the levels of service and the customer experience.

You have decided that you do not like this approach and will not use it anymore.

If a significant number of pax take your view and Ryanair's business is impacted, then they may change the model.

However, until then, what you see (in a t&c sense) is what you get, no matter how irritating!

9th Jan 2003, 10:22
I'm no anti Ryan basher. But FR are the only airline who carries this photo ID thing to extremes, no doubt for their own reasons. Including the well known episode when they refused to let someone on board after a well publicised family tragedy.
No other airline seems to have this problem therefore it is self inflicted bad publicity and frankly Ryanair deserve all the criticism they get.

It's worth pointing out that the potential (allegedly) hijacker in Sweden would have no trouble getting on board because of course he had his passport alongside the gun in his hand luggage. So much for photo ID security.

On another point, part of the problem for UK passengers is the lack of a photo ID driving licence now normal all over the world including 'The land of the Free'. Yet Britain still clings on the notion that photo ID is some threat to freedom or whatever. You wouldn't need a passport for internal flights then.

They're easily faked as well. Just how long would it take to make up a false driving licence from the principality of Ruratania complete with endorsements for driving horseless carriages,double decker buses and donkey carts. And just how many check in staff would realize that there is no such place as Ruratania? Did you??????

9th Jan 2003, 11:19
I think some people are missing the point here.........

Before I start, I would just like to put on record that I have never travelled FR, have never worked for them, applied for a job with them or anything else. I have no opinion about their operation at all. So I'm not an "FR-basher".

The crux of this matter is the very worrying misguided application of security rules by FR. Of course it's up to them what rules to make, but surely they have a responsibility to enforce SENSIBLE security rules meticulously to their operation, as does any other airline. The fact of the matter is that if they are not going to accept airline ID's, HM Forces ID's etc., then they should certainly not be accepting student ID's!!!!! The checks that go into ( or are supposed to go into) the issuing of airside and Forces/Police passes should make them the ID of choice for airlines to accept.
As has already been pointed out, you can obtain a student ID from the back pages of FHM or on the net with ease. Driver's Licences can be easily obtained too if you provide the right info. And anyone who knows what he or she is about (i.e. a trained terrorist) can obtain as many passports as they like, in all sorts of different names.
Security cannot be assured, but all you can do is try to shorten the odds as much as possible. It seems to me that accepting student ID's is most distinctly NOT shortening the odds, as they can be obtained childishly simply. Worrying.

I have a Blockbuster video card - is that OK????!!!!!;)

Final 3 Greens
9th Jan 2003, 11:34
I think some people are missing the point here.........

If you read the original post, it ended with a rhetorical question that was not security oriented....

Who needs common sense when you've got a "policy"

Forgive me for saying that I think you are arguing the wrong argument in this context and maybe you would like to start a new thread on the subject of the security implications of check in policies. It would be topical and valid IMHO.

To re-iterate, "Who needs common sense when you've got a "policy" - it would appear not to be check in agents handling Ryanair, as the policy is clear, unambiguous and not open to interpretation according to an earlier comment from such as person, which as I have hypothesised in previous posts is maybe the reason it was written this way

9th Jan 2003, 11:49
I have travelled up and down to Edinburgh with GO a couple of times recently. They also insisted on photo ID and most folk seemed to be using their passports.

9th Jan 2003, 12:49
Another ID-nonsense story :

As an employee of the aviation authority I own a special authority ID which gives me the right by law, to enter any aircraft company I want. This is working fine for any small company, where the secretary who also manages the entry, knows what she is doing. Tying so in a big company, the security man at the entrance (belonging to a security company, not to the aircraft manufacturer) normally refuses entry and sends me to the reception counter. There I have to wait in a long row, fill in some forms, wait for some telephone calls with my partners in the company (which normally is unsuccesful, because they are not in their office but in the meeting room, waiting for me ...) and then get a visitors ID and the clearance to enter ten to fifteen minutes later.
On the other hand, showing the cash-free-lunch credit card of the authorities casino (which has also a photo and the authorities logo on it) to the man at the entrance works fine. No further question, just entering the company ! And these cards are given even to the authorities janitors, which of course have no right to enter any company.

The whole security business is just a big joke !

eastern wiseguy
9th Jan 2003, 16:40
I have said before on another thread like this THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH SECURITY.Where ID not required there would be nothing to stop me buying a ticket at (e.g)£20 all in and flogging it to a mate for £30....he turns up happy ...I make a tenner and (if they found out it was going on)Ryanair get mad!!(and why not!)HOWEVER if it says in their rules that you need such and such to travel ....well I presume you can all read and are capable of making your own judgements as to whether your ID is sufficient.

10th Jan 2003, 06:53
Slightly off topic, but a good laugh - Mr PilotWolf's problem with a bank reminded me of a visit to my branch recently:

Presented the cheque at the counter to be told "Sorry - can't cash it. The computer's down."

"Do you mean to say you've got no money?" I asked in all innocence.

"No. But we can't cheque your signature."

"But my account is with this branch. Don't you have a copy of the signature here?"

"No. Only on the computer server. You can come back in two hours."

"Not so. But, tell me - is it just that you need the signature to be verified?"

The poor girl looked at me as if I were stupid (I am, but she didn't know that). "That's right."

"No problem," I said. "Let me see it." She handed me back the cheque.

I looked at it most carefully, then passed it back. "Yes. It's the correct signature."

She didn't say a word; just gave me the cash.

Wonderful. Now if you wrote that as part of a sitcom would anybody believe it?

Nowt so queer as folk...

Mister Slot
15th Jan 2003, 23:54
Back to the original topic just for a mo., and some food for thought about Ryanair's carefully [sic] thoughtout i.d. policy.

This evening's (U.K. T.V.) news televised an item about gun and drug related crime in the U.K. The focus of the report suggested that the majority of perpetrators were of Jamaican descent and not entitled to remain in this country.

Most notably though, the article pointed out that the easiest way for such miscreants to remain at liberty in the country was to enrol at a local college/school and obtain a Student ID Card!!

N.B. Having just booked a couple of tickets with EasyJet, I noted that they accept acredited aircrew amongst their criteria.

16th Jan 2003, 14:06
Travelled with bmibaby at the weekend, who gladly accepted my aircrew pass (British Airways), and provided a very good service. What can I say? I would again if I needed to.:)

26th Jan 2003, 01:59
Now I hope I'm not gonna drag this even further done the line... but I work on checkin at a certain airport (No guessing now!) checking in FR pax.... Now my worst nightmare on check-in is having a argument with some pap about what the right and wrong ID is (I've encountered Police officers, flight crew, FR staff but to name a few). Now maybe I'm a good or bad check-in agent but I'll contact someone at ryanair to ask if the pap can travel with whatever incorrect ID they've brought.... guaranteed I'll get a NO answer back.... Now I'm not slagin FR off cause of there "Policy" it's there and theres nowt I can do about.... I'll be as simpathetic to the pap about his/her error... but hey I've tried my best....Now, I've popped me tuppence worth in cause somebody (I'm not gonna be bothered scrolling through the post to find it's name) said that the Check-in agents seem to enjoy turning pax away... Why?? Is it more money in my pocket??? Nope!!! It's less time I've got to have a ciggy before getting the so called "SLF" on to wherever there going.... It's faster for me to gettem all checked in than it is to have an argument about whose wrong and whose right....

Any how... That was my first post.... I quite enjoyed it!!!

26th Jan 2003, 10:38
Just looked again at FR's website.Lo and behold the entire format has been changed to make the booking process impossible without being made aware of the 4 forms of ID.
Maybe they are responding to customer concerns or maybe that fake legalese letter I sent them put the scare on them-who cares?--Result.

High Wing Drifter
10th Feb 2003, 09:21
Ryanair has sparked a row with the Government after refusing to allow British soldiers on standby for the Gulf to board flights using military ID. Cabinet ministers have threatened a Ministry of Defence boycott of the low-cost airline amid complaints that it is discriminating against servicemen. Although the airline accepts the new photo driving licence and the international student identity card with photo, it does not recognise the Armed Forces photo ID card.

Daily Telegraph
Date: Monday 10. February 2003
Page: 8

Few Cloudy
10th Feb 2003, 09:55
Sounds like something that should have been sorted out in advance...

btw. How many flights are involved in flying to the Gulf?

Localiser Green
10th Feb 2003, 10:36
What a bunch of moaners! The Ryanair website makes it perfectly clear what is and is not accepted as Photo ID for their flights:

The only valid forms of photo-id accepted on domestic UK flights and Ireland-UK routes are a passport, driving licence with photo, international student identity card with photo, or national identity card with photo. (National Identity cards are accepted only when issued by a Schengen country, ie. Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Belgium, Iceland, Luxembourg, Italy, the Netherlands, Greece Austria, Denmark, Finland and Sweden).

Failure to present such valid proof of identity matching the names on your reservation will result in you being refused check-in without refund.

Sounds pretty simple to me, if people can't understand the above then more fool them, why should servicemen get special treatment for their stupidity?

As for the MoD boycotting FR, well I'm sure O'Leary is quaking in his boots :rolleyes: Don't worry, he won't miss them.

10th Feb 2003, 10:36
Stupid inflexible people should not be employed by airlines in jobs where they come into contact with the public. Whatever happened in this country that stopped people using their common sense to solve problems. Must say the attitude of Ryanair to such problems sucks - low cost should not equal low grade staff.

10th Feb 2003, 10:41
Good to see no one is getting any special privelages. Members of the Armed forces are not stupid - if they book a flight with Ryanair they must abide by Ryanair rules & regulations; if they don't want to play it by the book, they can fly with someone else.

10th Feb 2003, 10:42
What is perfectly clear is that Ryanair have chosen to allow the use of student ID cards but not service IDs. This shows a distinct lack of common sense.

It is also clear from previous threads that what is perfectly clear on a website might well not be seen by the traveller who may have had his or her ticket purchased by a third party.

Security is a state of mind and the application of common sense in dealing with your customers should be encouraged.

10th Feb 2003, 11:20
This topic was discussed recently:


Soddim, I agree that frontline staff should be flexible towards customers. However, this CAN'T extend to security. Can you imagine what could happen if checkin staff had discretion over what constitutes legitimate ID? An airline needs to have a rigid policy. Whatever you think of Ryanair's, their staff obeyed it to the letter and were absolutely right.

FR's rules are clearly stated on their website. Acceptance is a condition of purchase. If third parties are involved, the onus is on them to communicate conditions to travellers. Of course, few of us are so organised in practice, which is exactly why cases like this occur.

10th Feb 2003, 11:32
The root of the matter is, surely, what is the purpose of applying an identity check to passengers? As the procedure is in place to enhance security, then the integrity of the identity document presented should be the essential criterion. In this respect, a military ID card is a government provided document and so has a high level of security credibility.

On a recent flight LGW-EDI with easyJet I offered a CIS4(P) which is an Inland Revenue Registration Card (with photo). This was accepted without difficulty.

Ryanair should rethink this one, although the demeaning reference to "Joe Punter" in the spokesperson's response to the "Telegraph" makes me wonder if they have ever heard of Public Relations.


In trim
10th Feb 2003, 11:51
I agree that Ryanair's types of acceptable ID are limiting.....and should perhaps be widened to include UK Military ID's, UK airport airside passes (which sparked the previous thread on this subject), and perhaps a couple more.

However, they do have a clear and unambiguous policy, which can easily be communicated to all check-in staff, without risk of confusion, to ensure a consistent approach.

Sure, the check-in agent could have let it pass.....then what about the boarding gate.......and the return trip. At least by being consistent on this, Ryanair are avoiding the hassle of "....but it was okay on the outbound sector, so now you've got to get me home".

10th Feb 2003, 13:07
Is there anything to reccomend this particular carrier, apart from the fact they appear to be very cheap!! Remember, you do not have to travel with them as I most certainly do not.
On the overall question of security, the strongest point is at the weakest link. So can someone from higher authority tell me why, Police, Customs, Immigration, and Security personnel themselves at most UK airports are NOT liable to the the normal security checks and procedures. Unless everbody passing through to airside is not checked, surely the whole system falls down and is then a waste of everybody'd time

10th Feb 2003, 13:33
The Soldier's regiment had taken his passport from him earlier in readiness for deployment to the Gulf. Ryanair were told this, and still didn't have the common sense to let him travel. In the end, he was driven up, using a day's leave that was probably the last he will have before going to war.

Ryanair are bringing air travel down and should be ashamed of their attitude.

10th Feb 2003, 14:04
Ryanair are bringing air travel down and should be ashamed of their attitude.

No, they are bringing air fares down, and stopping the established carriers from ripping us all off. No way should they be ashamed; on the contrary, they should be extremely proud!

This is simply a case of someone not following the rules! Why the heck should Ryanair bend their rules for anyone! Being a member of the armed services this soldier/his regiment should have known all about following orders!!

There is no excuse. Kudos to Ryanair for not bowing under pressure!

Lou Scannon
10th Feb 2003, 15:04
I would make two points:

Firstly, now that the problem has arisen, for Ryanair not to immediately accept British Military ID's is insulting to both the armed services and all the ex-servicemen and women in the UK (and the Republic). It is also insulting to the elected government of the UK, not to mention everyone who places a value on the armed forces. It certainly conflicts with most peoples logic and commonsense.

Secondly, to score points off some inexperienced young trooper so that Ryanair staff can swagger and preen at their cleverness and omnipotence beggars belief. Have they no sense of the outrage that will take place if, (heaven forbid) this young man should be injured or killed in the forthcoming coflict? You don't have to be a journalist to imagine the sort of headline that will be written should this happen.

Ryanair! you have embarrassed the rest of us in the aviation family. Perhaps you should consider who it is that provides the freedom that you operate under...even though they don't charge you much for the service!

10th Feb 2003, 19:18
I'll try to make my point without the hysterical indignation, petty sarcasm and ludicrous assumptions of some previous postings :rolleyes: :

Ryanair offer minimal service for a minimal fare. They never pretended otherwise. It's an open market and you get what you pay for. The Underimpressed are welcome to fly with an upmarket carrier - and pay accordingly.

10th Feb 2003, 19:33

Look at what is happening here. A young (and low paid) man has his passport held centrally by his regiment in order that, when the time comes for him to do his job, there are no problems with getting everyone out quickly and efficiently. In other words, it is not his fault that he doesn't have a passport.

How would you feel in his position - home to see his parents with the prospect of a dirty, hot, uncomfortable and downright dangerous few months, and has to spend most of his time arguing with a jobsworth on the telephone who is only interested in getting brownie points from MOL.

You say 'I'll try to make my point without the hysterical indignation, petty sarcasm and ludicrous assumptions'. Well your post is the epitomy of petty sarcasm, and if you can't see indignation in spades from just about everyone in this and two other threads without assuming it is hysterical, then that ranks as the most ludicrous assumption of them all.

10th Feb 2003, 19:48
I do wonder if this has anything to do with identity and everything to do with finding ways of not carrying people who have paid for a ticket. By all means demand identification by a proper ID but there is no reason why that ID cannot be wider than it currently is.
Passports are regularly faked, as are driving licences, so unless the number of the identification is checked against a central database it is worthless.
I just wonder if the real reason is to deny a passenger boarding which then requires them to miss the flight, allowing a weight-listed passenger to board. The refused passenger then has to buy another ticket for a later flight at a premium rate.
2 extra tickets sold.

10th Feb 2003, 20:15
In my opinion, the attitude of the carrier in question on this topic was totally unwarranted however....,
A short time ago prior to me drawing my first company pension payment, I wished to open a further savings account at a local bank I had not used previously. One of the items they demanded was ID and I offerred my then CAA airline employees ID card, which incidently gained me access then to airside on most airfields worldwide. This was flatly refused as being unacceptable to the bank, who would only accept a passport, driving licence, student ID card, I was actually asked if I had one of these!.
In slight mitigation, I do not think the 18 year old behind the counter really knew what a pilot was, let alone recognising a bona fide airline ID card. I attempted what I thought was a sensible argument, but to no avail and I got nowhere.
On the subject of the military ID card. When I was flying in the military, I did in fact now and then have `HM theQ` among my passengers on the aircraft. My military ID card then as do civil aviation ID cards now I am afraid, afford the bearer little chance of proving just who he or she is to the average jobs worth plonker.

10th Feb 2003, 21:36
Some people still don't get it. It's amazing.

Rules are bloody rules no exceptions!

There is no media coup, no patting on the back, and I certainly can't understand the melodramatic comments regarding "insulting the armed forces, the country, humanity" etc. etc.....absolute irrelevant waffle.

The terms & conditions are clearly made available for all to see (and abide by). Until such time as FR accept military ID (notice I have nothing against that part of the argument), there will be no exceptions - either you bring with you the required ID, as laid out in Ryanair Terms & Conditions - or you will NOT be accepted for carriage.

There is NO excuse for failure to read or comply with the Terms & Conditions.

The rest (including all the media waffle, moans & anti Ryanair whining) are utterly irrelevant.

You all have a choice. No one forces anyone else to fly with Ryanair. The fact that millions do choose to fly with them suggests the majority of people are willing and able to comply with some simple instructions.

I can't believe I've had to explain this so many times - it's a pretty basic concept.

TDK mk2
10th Feb 2003, 22:04

Have anyone ever bent a rule to help you out when in a bind, or have you ever done so for anyone ever yourself? No I didn't think so - in my company we just about always do our best to wait for a late inbound flight for transfer pax, or negotiate with the handling agent to help one of our pax catch a connection. I wonder if you would ever be one of those people? Betta stick with Ryanair matey...

10th Feb 2003, 22:15

Words fail me at the crass and downright offensive attitude which Ryanair (and you apparently) with to perpetuate.

I find it hard to belive that any normal PR person would describe there customers (after all they are the ones who ultimately pay the salaries) in such a patronising manner.

Interestingly, even after all your verbal guff, we still have seen no sign of Ryanair accepting what to everyone else is plain common sense; that a military ID card should present a far lower security risk than an International Student Identity Card. After all the holder has been vetted, unlike most students who if my recollection is correct just go and buy their ISIC cards -although it is a while since I held one.

Therefore I have to agree with the suggestion above, that it really is just a reason for Ryanair to take the money and deny someone their ticket for any old reason - or perhaps there is another reason MOL does not want to accept a UK military ID card yet will accept lesser forms of ID?

Yet another example of the Ryanair conforntational style of management and customer care.


Edited for spelling

10th Feb 2003, 22:41
There seem to be too many posts on this thread totally in favour of this anti-passenger airline's attitude - cannot be coincidence. Guess Ryanair are here with us posting away and defending their attitude to the few fare-paying wannabe passengers who cannot travel because, carelessly, they did not read the conditions. Just remember, Ryanair, when you have got over your current expansion and your passenger numbers are dwindling you will not be the airline of choice unless you are prepared to accept that all your customers are important to you. 'Look after your customer or someone else will."

10th Feb 2003, 23:13
Its not just UK airports where this goes on, allmost everyday at ams I saw the same thing when we had cabin crew based locally. They were issued with ams airside passes but security ther would not let them airside!! When asked why the security mann would inevitably say thepasses were not valid airside (precisely what they were issued for). When the girls then shoew their co id (which is not a security pass just a card to assist in purchasing rebate tickets) they were let through without any questions.

On top of all this one girl was told if she tried to use her ams pass again it would be taken away from her and another was told that she would be arrested if she wore it on airport sby with her civvies on.

I could go on but I just wanted to say iyts not only in the uk we have thes problems, I also cant help feeling sorry for Homer, had this happened when on his own he would probably have been annoyed with himself for a few minutes then got on with it, but as it is Marge probably made him pay for it for almost a week, or am I the only one with a wife like that!?!:}

10th Feb 2003, 23:16
I have no idea why some of you think I might be associated with Ryanair. I have nothing to do with them whatsoever.

However, I do have some common sense, and I feel the anti-FR rhetoric here on pprune requires balance, and some measure of objectivity (which I believe I am capable of, as I do not work for Ryanair.)

I find it hard to belive that any normal PR person would describe there customers (after all they are the ones who ultimately pay the salaries) in such a patronising manner.

Which patronising manner is this?

Interestingly, even after all your verbal guff, we still have seen no sign of Ryanair accepting what to everyone else is plain common sense

Common sense is about reading the T & C's and abiding by them accordingly. In this case, it is about bringing with you to the airport, ID deemed appropriate by the airline you intend to fly with - not whichever ID you believe 'should' be accepted. Simple, no?

Therefore I have to agree with the suggestion above, that it really is just a reason for Ryanair to take the money and deny someone their ticket for any old reason

Sorry, due to the lack of any evidence to suggest this is indeed the case, I would take a guess that this is a load of rubbish/anti-FR rhetoric.

in my company we just about always do our best to wait for a late inbound flight for transfer pax, or negotiate with the handling agent to help one of our pax catch a connection. I wonder if you would ever be one of those people? Betta stick with Ryanair matey...

Good for you. Low-cost operations do not (and cannot) afford to take such measures - most punters know the deal with regards to making connections (because they've read the T & C's...). Perhaps those passengers who would prefer seamless connections might fly with your airline instead? It's a free world...

10th Feb 2003, 23:42
TDK mk2, are you seriously advocating 'bending rules' when it comes to airline security???? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Sorry mate, but that kind of attitude in the current climate won't get you very far at all.

I can imagine that the argument against increasing the number of cards on the 'approved' list. This would lead to a lack in recognition ability as even low level staff would have to learn to recognise a multitude of cards. For 210k Armed Forces personnel out of a UK population of 60 million, it's just not worth the effort. And what do you do about Armed Forces from other countries?

The whole reason for having rules like this is that everyone is treated the same.......if some people can't handle that then they're welcome to take their business elsewhere. Ryanair staff understand their t&cs, 99.9% of their pax seem to as well. What's the problem?

PS - to get an ISIC card you need to show confirmation that you are enrolled in full time education. This usually takes the form of photo ID in the form of your university ID card, which is also your NUS card.

TDK mk2
11th Feb 2003, 00:02
It's got nothing to do with being anti Ryanair, on my part anyway. It just seems that in this situation at least they accepted that the person was who they said they were, but instead of observing the spirit of the terms and conditions as stated they decided to take it to the absolute letter as if god would strike them down if an exception were made where common sense prevailed. The term 'jobs worth' springs to mind.

Generally speaking with regard to low cost carriers there is clearly massive expansion going on at present which will continue for some time, but as mobile phone companies found out the market is finite. Hitherto LCCs have not generally competed directly with each other but once the market is saturated they will have to start going head to head if they wish to maintain growth rates. Additionally they may find that full service carriers do not become extinct as predicted by many but adapt to meet the challenge. This is when Ryanair may be wise to reassess it's attitude to customer service...

P.S. Bahrainlad: this has NOTHING to do with security. Many airlines don't require any ID for intra British Isles flights at this time. Low cost carriers want to prevent anyone selling on non refundable/non transferrable flights another party which is fair enough but not accepting such obvious forms of ID such as airside passes and armed forces ID makes sense only to those with a brain just big enough to interpret rules letter by letter.

11th Feb 2003, 08:06
As far as I was aware, all UK carriers operating transport category aircraft introduced the photo-ID requirement after 9/11. An interesting point though - I don't know the facts, can anyone clarify?

Llademos, I'm not picking a fight but I find your reply mystifying. Please indicate the sarcasm in my earlier posting, or retract your statement. 'Indignation in spades from just about everyone' sounds hysterical to me, but it's subjective so we'll differ.

The specifics of this case aren't very relevant; there are two issues under debate:

1. Whether Ryanair's ID policy is 'fair'. I reiterate: The rules are clear. If you don't like them, take your custom elsewhere.

2. Whether the rules should be open to interpretation. FR's managers are paid to make the rules. Their staff are paid to enforce them. If rules were bent for all travellers with exceptional circumstances, there'd be no point in having an ID policy.

I generally avoid Ryanair as I don't like their service philosophy. Yes, I think they risk becoming the Ratner's of air travel but they're thriving right now. But here's the bottom line: Unless you're a majority shareholder, you're not in a position to demand changes.

Lou Scannon
11th Feb 2003, 08:36
Latest news is that 400 troops are deployed to guard LHR.
I presume that this will also include other UK airports.

I do hope that they take a set of ID's with them that will be acceptable to all the airlines that they may have to defend!

11th Feb 2003, 08:51
besides, the ryan air check-in person will get demerit points if he/she gives anybody exemptions. So to ensure they keep their jobs, do you really think they will risk that for some idiot they don't know?

Don't blame the lemming staff, blame the PR department..

uffington sb
11th Feb 2003, 09:49
So, according to FR, an International Students ID card (as bought by any low life from the back of FHM and Loaded magazines) is a better form of security than my RAF ID and my 29 years of serving 'Her Maj', security clearance etc etc..
I suggest all new recruits are issued with a mil ID and an 'International students ID card', whatever that is. It's obviously the ID of choice for FR.

11th Feb 2003, 11:13
I have no problem with the part of the argument which favours a review of Ryanair's acceptable forms of ID. Of course, let us have a debate, let us write to Ryanair and request they consider accepting ID cards issued by the Armed Forces and other institutions. Why not?

What I do not find acceptable, is that some of you are blaming an airline for NOT bending its own rules!!

What I also find unacceptable, and rather crass, is the fact that a lot of posters use the incident as an excuse to have a general go at Ryanair for no valid reason . This includes ("oh I hate them because they're riff-raff...they don't have a 'proper' seating policy....they're an embarrassment to civil aviation..." ...and other such inane comments).

These are not valid reasons. These are your own personal opinions which an increasing number of travellers in Britain and Europe, it would appear, do not share with you.

I would hazard a guess that Ryanair only accept a finite number of different IDs in order to keep things simple. Any of you that have passed through Stansted at peak times will have noticed the monstrous queues which develop behind the various airline desks. In order to process passengers more efficiently, it is probably best if staff limited themselves to accepting a small number of instantly recognizable/verifiable IDs.

As soon as you start making exceptions, as others have noted, problems inevitably rise - and if you have over 150 people to check-in within the hour, you do not want to have to make people wait in order to verify a NATS/BAA/Barclays Bank/whatever ID card.

The average punter no longer regards flying as a glamorous past-time. Most travellers regard a short-haul flight as a bus service, which should therefore be priced accordingly. That is exactly what Ryanair is delivering. Its success is down to its ability to give people what they want, and at low cost. You may balk at such an ideology/strategy, but the reality is that the low-cost airline, is the airline of the future.

That does not mean the end of the established carriers, but it does mean that they will have to modify the way they operate, if they wish to continue to provide the kind of service which differentiates them from the likes of Ryanair.

By the way, here is some sound advice; whenever you intend to fly anywhere (domestic or international) the best form of ID is simply your passport. It's not that difficult.

11th Feb 2003, 11:23

You seemto have lost the plot here. The soldier in question did not have access to his passport, for sound military reasons.

You seem to have an unquestioning belief in the inflexibility of rules as in the legendary "...like to help you sir/madam but it's more'n my jobsworth".

Perhaps you might reflect on the other approach, namely that rules are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.

For what it's worth, I'm a very experienced airline pilot with a huge respect for Ryanair. I just think they've got it badly wrong this time.


11th Feb 2003, 11:33
We're at a cleft stick. If Ryanair's rules are strictly for commercial reasons, exceptions might sometimes be appropriate.

If they're strictly for security reasons, exceptions would be reckless. There can be no shades of grey, otherwise you'd get people sweet-talking their way airside with an al-Quaeda membership card.

11th Feb 2003, 11:44

I am aware that the soldier's passport was kept by his regiment - perhaps for perfectly sound reasons.

However, I simply do not believe Ryanair have got it wrong at all, whatever proverbs you may choose to throw into this argument.

As I have said, their rules are clear. You can choose to ignore them, or plead mercy - this may work, and if does, good for you. But you cannot blame them if they do decide to play by the book - again, most probably for very sound reasons too (and I doubt those have anything to do with gouging more money from customers...)

I also understand this young man's mother actually phoned Ryanair before he had even reached the airport in order to check whether the airline would accept his military ID. The answer was an unambiguous "no".

You decide.

I remain convinced Ryanair acted appropriately.

I apologise if that sounds unreasonable, but that is my opinion.

Playing along with the spirit of your proverb, I suggest a wise man might have been guided, by his good judgement, to comply with Ryanair's Terms & Conditions, knowing full well their tendency towards inflexibility....

11th Feb 2003, 11:47
R707 said
I've got through security in a mates car flashin a driving licence, a storecard and a library ticket!!!
To show his contempt for security personnel at the entrance of a defence establishment down-under, a scientist colleague pasted a photo of a monkey on his security pass and flashed it to the guard when driving through security.
He got away with it once; the next time he spent four hours in security's lock-up. :O

11th Feb 2003, 12:30
I find this quite worrying. I think many people know here (not Ryanair people, they don't fly longhaul :D ) that an international Student ID card can be purchased in BKK for 2$, 10 minutes to wait. While an airline ID card (which allows you to go around the airport!) is much more of a document.
A friend of mine had a problem in CDG at the beginning of this ID procedure for the same reason. But shortly after (I think after the problem was reported) they started accepting it.
If Ryanair employees are smart enough, they should report the problem, and it should be fixed in a short period. Not fixing it would mean at the best carelessness and incompetence.

11th Feb 2003, 13:25
Looks like my dear old Mum will never have the pleasure of a cheap flight with Ryanair. The reason is she has neither a passport or a driving licence. The only photo ID she has is a local authority bus pass........

11th Feb 2003, 16:16
Understand the military guarding our airports have been instructed not to accept Ryanair IDs unless accompanied by a student photo ID showing that the subject is enrolled in a full time course on how to be reasonable to their customers.

uffington sb
11th Feb 2003, 21:34
Nice one Soddim. I know this is unlikely, but wouldn't it be nice for a FR jet to divert to a military airfield!!!!

11th Feb 2003, 23:03
Unfortunately the course for Ryanair on PR and how to be nice to your customers was cancelled due to lack of interest:D

There seems to be some confusion in the posts as to the reasons for the photo ID requirement - if it really is just to say you are who it says on your ticket, then whats the big deal - other than Ryanair might lose out on their £1.99 fare somewhere.

If on the otherhand, as has been suggested that it is an absolute security requirement then I have two questions:-

a) Why do the "mainline" domestic carriers not currently require photo ID
b) If it really is for security then Ryanair would appear to have a rather misplaced sense of security about what an ISIC card proves (or not)

Finally perhaps Ryanair should remember who is really protecting the UK airspace and airports - certainly not the Irish Air Corps with two helicopters and a Cessna 172! :p


12th Feb 2003, 08:30
...and the two which stand out most are...

valid photographic forces identity card
valid police warrant card / badge

...both of which are difficult to obtain and are not accepted by the Ryans. Good for Easy here.

From Crepello

We're at a cleft stick. If Ryanair's rules are strictly for commercial reasons, exceptions might sometimes be appropriate.

If they're strictly for security reasons, exceptions would be reckless. There can be no shades of grey, otherwise you'd get people sweet-talking their way airside with an al-Quaeda membership card.

How can this be for security when Student Cards are valid forms or ID. This is blatently commercial....remember most students go for the cheapest form of transport...hence Ryan air when flying.

You may need to produce documentation to get an ISIC card but to get hold of an NUS card was a joke when I was studying. Anyone could get hold of an NUS card ...the required documentation to get an ISIC card.

Getting an exception, well if you have Cabinet Ministers requesting that forces ID's be accepted then I think they should consider it.

uffington sb
12th Feb 2003, 11:08
Suggest you have a look at the back pages of FHM. There at least two outfits where you can get all sorts of ID, ISIC, NUS etc. All a few clicks away.

12th Feb 2003, 12:57
ahh, found this thread at last. I think most of the arguements have been made but you've missed one corker :)

Ryan Air operate in/out of RAF St Mawgan :D Sure, it sounds nice as "Newquay", but it's an RAF base through and through.

12th Feb 2003, 20:48
I did not realise that this particular airline used RAF St Mawgan, but by calling it Newquay.
The problem is therefore solved..,
Station Commander at St Mawgan greets the very next airline arrival and has the entire crew arrested, the charge being that, they are all on MOD / Military premesis without a valid MILITARY ID card. Tough I agree on the lads and lassies, but if the airline management are going to play by these rules, so should the other side. Aircraft itself is impounded of course and not released, as it poses a security threat, it's non UK registered.
I somehow do not think this would happen of course, but just think how good the feeling would be if it did.
Come on Group Captain XXXXXX at St Mawgan, show us what you are made of.

12th Feb 2003, 22:14
Maybe OC RAF St Mawgan should only allow access to the Ryanair flights with military ID - would Ryanair then accept the same ID

uffington sb
13th Feb 2003, 09:41

But perhaps OC Plod could send a couple of his lads over to do a 'routine security check'.
"what's this sir, no international students ID card, then I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to accompany me to the nick"
That would sort 'em out, or maybe MOD could just cancel permission to operate into St. Mawgan 'due to on going operational reasons'

Greek God
13th Feb 2003, 09:41
As AJ puts so well - It is Ryan Air's right to determine and enforce policy. If that goes against common sense then so be it. One would hope that their policy might be amended but.....
The point that I take out of all of this is their arrogant don't give a s***t attitude. You can be firm and polite but the customer relations attitude they employ seems to beggar belief and is the single most important point in my personal resolve not to ever use them as my carrier of choice.

15th Feb 2003, 07:55


15th Feb 2003, 08:13
I don't think a security issue like this, which I believe Student ID's really are, has anything to do with cost. Airlines should be doing everything in their power to make sure that the people that board their aircraft are who they say they are. Intelligence Agencies can probe passenger lists looking for suspects, but people that can change a name, grab an easily obtainable student ID and board an aircraft are a real danger.

15th Feb 2003, 20:31
There would appear to be a bit of debate here surrounding FR's acceptance of Student ID cards or International Student Identity Cards (ISIC).

I would like to clarify that a Student card issued by a university is NOT acceptable for carriage, but an ISIC card is. This is the situation, for better or worse, but it is an attempt to introduce an element of standardisation for check in staff to allow them to identify acceptable ID (after all, university cards in the Far East, South America, etc will each look different for each uni).

Personally my life would be much easier if forces ID was accepted, but the ISIC situation is actually almost irrelevant - I have maybe only seen 5 pax check in with ISIC cards since the regulations were introduced.

We also need to remember that, rather like pubs or shops, an airline can deny access to their aircraft without giving any reason. FR may have 7 pages of terms and conditions, but unlike EZY (with whom I have recently booked) they do form part of the printout when booking, and you do not need to click on various links on various parts of the website in order to access them.

Read the details when booking with any airline and prevent any disappointment when checking in - simple.

15th Feb 2003, 23:11
You'd think "international students" would also carry passports tbh. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't half the terrorists involved in 9/11 "international students"? I'm still waiting for that unruly drunken passenger to create a problem onboard one of FR's flights, which then diverts somewhere and ask the police to remove him and charge him. The same police who's Warrant Cards don't permit them access to the aircraft! Hmm.

My names Turkish
18th Apr 2003, 01:16
I cannot believe you can travel on an ISIC card!

There is not a single night club in the British Isles who will admit entry with one of these, and do you know why? When underage drinkers want to get into Pubs etc, they get an older friends card and peel back the clear plastic so they can change the Photo. It really is that simple. We are not talking about Terrorist Masterminds here, 16 and 17 year old kids have been doing this for years. I know because I did it!

19th Apr 2003, 06:46
I find it really bizarre that Ryanair seem to be sooo demanding and picky at check-in when rumour has it that when it comes to getting id's for their own crew in Stansted they seem not very much bothered at all.See rumour has it that all the new cabin crew coming into London are failing their security checks so Ryanair are issuing them Dublin ids and if they can't get these ones they somehow manage to get id's issued in Skavsta??????Where u might add is Skavsta.And if all else fails they issue the operating crew member with a boarding card.Now I know these are only rumors but is that legal in the UK?????A French friend of mine has told me about these rumours,seems to be a lot of double standards in Dublin.Anybody know any more about these rumours????Merci.

20th Apr 2003, 05:26
Interesting posts but i believe the real reason why Ryanair was the first in the field to insist on photo ID at check-in has nothing to do with security. It was to prevent fraudulent use of their tickets. After 9/11 it just became convenient to pretend it was a security issue.

Celtic Frog
21st Apr 2003, 04:08
Have you experienced the waste of common sense at Luton Airport?
Having held ID passes for UK airports continuously for donkeys years, applied for ID pass at luton (for job there) , complete with references, proof of previous employment, etc etc, to be told that I couldn't get one 'cos I couldn't prove where I was for the 2 weeks brief unemployment I had while I was changing job and moving house to luton. They said they would accept me if I showed them proof that I'd signed on the dole...except I hadn't even done that..wasn't entitled to 'cos I left last job voluntarily...therefore I wasn't suitable to give an ID card to. Girlfriend (aircrew) also had same problem. To test their stupidity, I asked if it would be acceptable if I showed them proof that for 2 weeks I'd been working for a radical extremist religious organisation in a foreign non-western country ..to be told that it didn't matter..just as long as they could see proof of where I'd been...then I'd get an ID card. :confused: