Conerns regarding crossings out in my log book

[Wireless]

Hi there,

When I learned to fly 5 years ago I messed up by accidentally carrying over some single night hours onto the multi night hours column. I didn't notice until last year after 200 hours of towing. I had just carried forward the night total each page as I haven't flown night for 5 years. The only thing I could do in order to stop it looking like I was trying to claim that I have flown multi engine was to cross out all the mistakes and enter in the correct figures. It looks messy but there wasn't any other option that I could think of. The CAA wallers said they'd prefer not to see crossings out but I pointed out that there was no alternative.

Big breath........

My concern is that next year I am going to train for my FAA CPL. I am concerned as to how the FAA view crossed out mistakes (and a fair few of them because this blo"dy mistake was carried over a few pages). Do you have to send your log book away to Oklahoma to apply for a licence or does an examiner review it on the day of the test. That way I could explain the problem to him.

Do any of you guys have a fair few crossings out and have found it to be without problem. Please don't think that I disrespect the legal aspects of a log book as I don't but I am human and have made a mistake and I am concerned that it is going to balls up my commercial flying aspirations

Thanks, Bill

[slim_slag]

You only have to show your logbook to your instructor and examiner. If they are happy, the FAA are happy. I wouldn't worry about it.

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

My flying logbook is more tipex than paper!:D I keep two logbooks, I keep one book in my flight case (my flying logbook) and I keep a neat one at home. Not only does the neat one look better for licence and employment purposes but if one should go missing Ive always got a back-up.:)

[Wireless]

Thanks guys, reassuring words there.

2 wings, which one of your two logbooks is the one that carries the rubber stamps from the CAA and signatures of instructor sign offs? I have thought of filling out a duplicate but as it will not have the signatures and stamps in it I didn't know if I could use it to show to future employers or for licence purposes.

Thanks, Bill

[ModernDinosaur]

Not quite on topic, but I keep photocopies of every completed page in my logbook just in case the "real" one ever gets lost or damaged.

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

I also keep photocopies of the most important pages. I dont know wether its just me but the CAA havn't ever stamped my book:confused: On the pages that ive completed skill tests, the only stamps and sig's Ive got are from the CFI and the examiner. My flying book is the one that gets sent to the CAA (because thats the one I had first)but I note in my neat book (CAP 407) that its a skills test and note the relevent examiner/instructor licence numbers. If for some reason I lost my original book I donk think the CAA would have any problems accepting the 407:)

[SteveR]

An on-line backup is always a good idea as well ;)

Steve R

[UV]

In a previous life I used to be with FCL and can assure you that often Log Books without any errors were the ones that caused most suspicion! It is obvious when they have been rewritten (same pen, clean pages, no dirty thumb prints etc.)
Everyone makes mistakes.
Dont worry.

[Davidt]

Almost on point, any one know how I get out of this mess with my log:

All entries properly made up whilst training, got my PPL,IMC,night and bought a share and started flying with fellow group members having a great time!

All the time spent in the left seat properly logged P1
but when in right seat doing navs radio etc for my mate
in all innocence I've logged as P2.

Did that for about two years til I found out that there is no such thing as P2 in a single crew a/c.

Anyone suggest how I sort my log book out without making a complete mess? Bet loads of other newbie ppl's desperate to log hours have done same trick?

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

I use tipex mini pocket mouse. its keeps everything neat and if you go over a line you can just scratch it off with your finger nail, no mess. :)

[Select Zone Five]

I seem to have a mental block with putting P1 time in the dual column and vice-versa. This means I have a fair amount of Tippex in my logbook. I'm seriously considering filling in with pencil until I'm sure I have it right!

Correction fluid doesn't seem to bother the CAA, in fact, when mine came back from the CAA with my licence; it had a rather large dent in it and thanks to them breaking the spine, the pages are close to falling out :mad: Only about 100 pages to go until I can start a new one! :mad:

[Wireless]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply. It's reassurring to know that I'm not the only one to have this problem.

Thanks again, Bill:)

[slim_slag]

Select Zone Five,

Why not just put a big line through the next clean page in your busted log book and start a new one.

[Canadian Luscombe]

Wireless,

No, you are not alone. We all make mistakes. ;)

I wouldn't get too fussed about a log book being a 'legal document' (although that phrase is a favourite of officialdom, it doesn't really have any legal significance). Contracts, affidavits, etc. are also 'legal documents' and it is not uncommon to see them revised with handwritten entries, properly initialled of course.

Select Zone Five, sorry to hear of the CAA's carelessness. Galling to think that you do your best to maintain your logbook in good condition and then some anonymous bureaucrat wrecks it. :(

There is a good thread on logbooks at www.avweb.com/qotw/ (click on "Pilot Logbooks" on the list at the left side of the page). Here's a comment by someone named Richard Mark Pearson, with which I entirely agree:

"My logbook is just that, MY logbook. I have gone to airline interviews where the interviewers wanted to use a highlighter in my logbook to show that I met one of their minimum requirements. I took the logbook from them and explained that it is private property and they had no right to mark in it. I consider looking through my logbooks a privilege that I bestow only to those I can trust not to deface it or mark it up in any way. I now have a total of four logbooks. The first one is nearly thirty years old, and is very fragile. When someone allows you to view their logbook, you should do so with reverence and respect. It may have taken decades to fill, and is irreplacable...".

[Genghis the Engineer]

This happens a lot with technical logbooks of one sort or another. The thing normally done is to make a longhand entry along the lines of "the following error in records has been found ... therefore the summary carried over to the next page now is...."

Like others, every time I fill a page in my logbook I take it to work, photocopy the page, leave the copy in a file at work, and bring the logbook home. I also have a "rough" logbook, just a cheap PPL one, that I carry around with me - the good logbook stays firmly on the shelf here at home.

I hate it when I have to send my logbook by post to the CAA for any reason. It's not the CAA I don't trust, it's the post office.

G

[Whirlybird]

After five years and 500 hours of flying, my logbooks (I have separate ones for f/w and rotary flying) are a complete mess of tippex, crossings out etc. The CAA has never worried, and I like them that way; it makes them real. I refuse to have a separate "official" one, and I carry them around with me and fill them in wherever I fly - so I have stamps and signatures and so on from the US, Russia, wherever. I do, however, photocopy each page as I fill it, and leave the photocopies in a safe place. But I want something I can look back on and remember what the crossings out and smudges and cat paw marks and general disorganisation meant, not some immaculate manicured version filled in afterwards to look good. That's just me I guess - but nobody seems to have minded yet.

[EI_Sparks]

Whirly, I think I like the sound of your logbook a lot more than some sanatised "offical" model :)
Mind you, given that these things seem to last for years (my father's isn't half full yet and he used it for at least 7 years before he stopped flying - he's now restarted so there's this page where the first flight is 1982 and the last is 2002 :D ), I'd like to get a really tough one (in bindings and paper) at the start. There doesn't seem to be too many of them to choose from though, so I'll probably use one for reality and one for the IAA with copied data :(

[SKYYACHT]

I know that I am going to appear as a complete "Saddo", but I have to admit that I use a standard PPL type logbook for day to day entries, and for submitting to the CAA/FAA etc, but I also keep a CAP 407 logbook too. This contains long hand written and indepth accounts of various flights, together with any photographs I may have taken that are relevant. This over the years contains photos and memories from my days as an Air Cadet, Glider Pilot, Powered Pilot etc etc. It also saves on book space, as I keep just the relevant aviation photos in the same book.

Blue skies and Tailwinds.....

[Whirlybird]

Skyyacht,

On the contrary, I think that's a really good idea. In fact...nah, it would take too long to copy out all the entries, dismantle all the photo albums, find the safe places where I've hidden the certificates. Ah well.

What I really really really want is a logbook with enough columns for me to record f/w and rotary flight, and stuff like microlight flying and anything else I might conceivably do, which enables me to separate out rotary and f/w hours, cross country hours, night and day etc, but also lets me have a total of everything, and with enough room for comments and so on. I don't think they make one, but if I find a book with enough columns I might make my own. Although since I'm only halfway through both of my log books after over five years, I suppose starting another one would be a little wasteful, to say nothing of having to start another thread on the "official" way to finish a logbook in the middle. :D

So I guess I'll keep it simple and leave everything as it is.

[Chris Vernon-Jarvis]

My logbook has a page with flight in 1970 and last is 2000, however long you give it up it is always there.