Advice for a newbie

[sbaywatch]

Hello, (from a 1st time poster)

In the New Year I will hopefully be starting out on a sure fire way to deplete lot's of money from my Bank account ie: start lessons.

At the moment I haven't decided whether it will be for the PPL or NPPL. I have good health but a little put-off by what seems very stringent medicals (though obviously for very good reasons). I don't really have any intention to fly abroad so the NPPL maybe the best option. What say you guys?? The fact that the number of required hours for the NPPL is less has no bearing for me as I will do as many hours as it takes, if that's 50, 60, 70 , 80 then fine (any excuse to get up in the sky !)

However the main question is for some advice on choosing the correct flying school. I live in Bexleyheath in Kent, could you recommend schools in Kent / SE London.

At the moment I am itching to get up for my 1st lesson !!! and have purchased what seems like a library of books !!!

many thanks
Simon::D

[Ace Rimmer]

Dealing with your questions in the order that I remember them:
PPL or NPPL I think the difference in min time is only about 10 hours so on that basis alone I doubt it's worth the savings. Looking longer term you may not want to fly abroad now but I bet you will before long (a good reason to learn to fly is the freedom to explore so why limit yourself to just the UK?). In addition why limit the training you receive good training initial and recurrent is vital so you might as well get as much as you can.

Ref the medical if you are reasonably fit (and I mean just basically healthy) you won't have any problems with the Class 2. Unless of course you are colour blind or have particularly poor vision or hearing so don't worry about it.

Turning to schools, certainly your nearest field is Biggin and doubtless the schools there will be only too happy to take your money. But also consider going a little further afield (Biggin is a killer on landing fees so that'll increase your training costs considerably) for example you might look at Rochester or Redhill since you might find things more cost effective (dunno about Rochester but at Redhill there are no landing fees for based aircraft - of course these are both grass field so you may have flying curtailed because of waterlogging this time of year Redhill is more sea than air port). Take the time to look around and find the place that best suits you and your wallet (the two are not necessarily linked). You are after all about to invest a lot of money and time in this flying malarkey, so its worth doing the research.

Lastly probably the most important thing is to enjoy the process I reckon a lot of people put too much stress on themselves worrying about going solo or completing the QXC or even the skills test. The point is its all flying and its all fun so enjoy it. Oh yeah and remember getting the ticket isn't the end its the beginning.

[Rote 8]

Simon

I would imagine there are many here who are better placed to offer you guidance on whether to go for a JAR PPL or NPPL, however fundamentally I think it will come down to what you want to do with the licence once you have completed the course and your medical situation.

I strongly suspect that there will be little difference in the total number of hours that you clock up whilst learning either one way or the other, in reality few complete the PPL in the minimum specified number of hours and they generally are completing the course on a full time basis so benefit from the continuity of training that is often lacking.

I would think it better to view the course as flying in itself, rather than get hung up about the number of hours that it takes you to complete, things will probably continue in the same vein for you once you have finished the course.

If you harbour any aspirations to fly outside of the UK, perhaps to the French coast for lunch or somewhere more exotic, or if you think there is a possibility that you would want to take your flying further and undergo professional training then I think the PPL is for you. Then again if you think there may be possible problems with your medical renewals and only really want to potter around the UK or your local area then the NPPL is probably for you.

Sorry I cant really write knowledgeably about flying schools near Bexleyheath , I’ve no doubt there will be people here who can help you out.

Good luck with the flying either way – be warned however this game is addictive and your wallet might start hurting real soon!

Happy Christmas

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd suggest start with the NPPL because it will allow you to get airborne under your own supervision quicker than any other route. Which route you take doesn't really matter - SEP / Microlight / SLMG, it's all flying and all fun.

As I say, get yourself airborne, do some flying, do some learning on your own, then you can think about upgrading to JAR, switching to another class of aeroplane, etc.

I know a couple of the instructors at the Microlight school at Medway (01634-270780) who all seem friendly and professional if you fancy starting with the NPPL(microlights) route. I've also dropped into Lydd for lunch and found myself chatting with some of the instructors there (which would be SEP) and was similarly impressed.

G

[ratsarrse]

If you do go for the NPPL, but decide later on that you want to upgrade to the JAR-PPL I believe that you have to undergo 15 hours further dual instruction to make the step up. Can anyone confirm this?

[FlyingForFun]

Welcome to PPRuNe!

There are loads of airports and schools around south London... Biggin Hill is your nearest airport, but I'd suggest you visit as many schools as you can, and pick the one which your gut feeling tells you is right!

I learnt at White Waltham, and my current aircraft is based there. I chose them for a number of reasons, but the main reason was because I liked the "flying club" environment - I felt like I'd still be welcome there after I got my PPL, which wasn't a feeling I got at other places, which were more like schools than clubs. Of course everyone has different priorities, and this might or might not be a valid reason for you to pick a school - only you can answer that one.

One piece of advice when looking at school - the best time to visit is in bad weather, when most of the instructors will be on the ground. Try to go early in the day - if the weather's bad all day and not forecaset to improve, you might find that instructors leave early.

Have fun!

FFF
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[sbaywatch]

Fantastic !!!

I am new to this board but the responses I have received (and detail) in such a short space time is sheer class !!!

Looks like PPRUNE is a very good find indeed.

many thanks
Simon

[Whirlybird]

Welcome to PPRuNe and the Private Flying forum! You've had lots of good advice already, but I may as well stick in my twopennorth too...

If you live in the South-East, flying over to France for lunch is one of the benefits! I'm jealous; from North Wales it's a bit of a long haul. Seriously, many of the pilots I know in the South of the country do it all the time. It only seems like a big deal now; soon it won't. I would get your medical out of the way before you start, and if you can pass it, go for the JAR PPL. If not, then it's nice to have the option of the NPPL. But if you're normally healthy, the medical is not a problem.

As to schools and instructors, visit a few and see what you think of them. People vary, and what suits one may not suit another. Ask if you're likely to have the same instructor for most of the course, as some sort of continuity really helps. Ask not only what they charge, but how they charge - as someone pointed out, paying home landing fees can add a lot, so can whether they charge from engine start, or brakes off, for instance. If you learn at a large airport, you could spend a lot of time hanging about waiting for other traffic; on the other hand, you'll learn how to cope in a crowded environment. At a smaller place you'll waste less time, and learn to make your own decisions without ATC helping out, but may find flying to somewhere larger a bit daunting for a little while.

I hope I'm not onfusing you, but as one of those who just wandered into my local flying school without doing any research at all, I wish I'd had this sort of advice when I started.

Above all, ENJOY! That's an order!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fly Stimulator]

Simon,

Whirly is quite right - if you're flying from anywhere south east of London then the temptation to pop over to France is going to be pretty irresistible once you have your licence. It's actually more straightforward to fly over there for a day's outing from Biggin/Redhill/Rochester/Lydd etc. than it is to get to most places in the UK from those fields, given all the restricted airspace around London.

Depends what you're interested in doing of course, but from where you're based you will probably come to think of north eastern France as part of your local flying area. The airfield lunches are certainly better, though I've yet to try Kemble's new restaurant.


I did my training on microlights and then got an NPPL when that came out because it was close to being a free upgrade from the microlight licence. I cross the Channel a lot in the microlight, but can't in a SEP (Single Engine Piston aka light aircraft aka 'A' Group). This is annoying, so I'm now upgrading to the full JAR licence. Still, doing the NPPL got me into the air in metal aeroplanes sooner so it hasn't been wasted.

There is a nasty catch to be aware of if you do consider the microlight route. Unless your training is done at a CAA registered facility by an instructor with a JAR FCL qualification as well as a microlight one, then you won't get the 30-hour credit towards a JAR licence if you do decide to upgrade later. Finding a microlight school which meets these conditions could be tough.

There's no problem though if you train from the start in a light aircraft for an NPPL with SEP rating. If you decide to upgrade, you'll get 30 hours credited leaving 15 more to do. You could use that time to do things like a night qualification, a tailwheel conversion, an aeros course or whatever.

The Class 2 medical isn't such a big deal if you're in reasonable nick. It may actually be more straightforward than explaining the NPPL requirements to your GP, plus you get a nice nurse smearing goo all over you for the ECG! :p

I got my Class 2 done by a good chap in Crawley - send me a private message if you want the contact details.

You've already had good advice on schools above. Go round and visit some and see which one you like the feel of. They range from places filled with people wearing ties and epaulettes to sheds in the corners of muddy fields; you just have to go and see where you're most comfortable with the atmosphere, the instructors and of course the fees.

Good luck!

PS - I can endorse Genghis' comments about Lydd - it may be a slightly bleak spot location-wise, but the club is a very warm and friendly place. It's quite a long drive for me, but I think it's worth it. Cubair at Redhill seems a good place too - I'm thinking of having a go in their Cub once the runways dry out or they fit floats to the aircraft! And Rochester is worth a look as well. Nice airfield which could do with more support to help ward off the threats from their local council.

[Tango Oscar]

I live in the South east also (Sidcup), and deciced to learn at Biggin Hill, as it was the closest airfield, and it had a hard runway. As others have said, the landing fees are quite expensive (£18 I think), but you do get to learn in a full ATC environment, which helps your radio skills develope quite quickly.

I thoroughly enjoyed my training, and I'm sure you will too, whereever you decide.

[sbaywatch]

Well that's decided then, PPL it is. !!

Thanks for the advice, I would imagine I will post after my first lesson (with a grin from ear to ear no-doubt !!!)

Happy Christmas

Simon

[poetpilot]

Welcome to our collective financial black hole called aviation....

'nother bit of advice (or if someone posted this and I missed it, then I apologise) - if it was me, I wouldnt fall for any "money up front" packages. Too many punters have seen their savings disappear when schools have gone bump overnight.

Keep your savings in an interest earning account, utilise 0% credit cards to spin out payment day as long as poss and pay as you go. Keeps it flexible too - if you decide you want to continue at another school, then you can move on just like that.

Good Luck, and hopefully we'll all be congratulating you on solos, cross countries, tickets and good ideas in the New Year!



:)

[eveepee]

I also live near you - Bexley - and can thoroughly recommend Rochester as a good place to learn, especially if you take as long as I did on circuits before going solo!
I started learning at Biggin Hill but changed to Rochester mainly for cost-effectiveness as there are no landing fees for pupils, and there's not much difference in the journey time. The school I use is Millen Aviation and my instructor is great...very patient and with over 5000 hours so I feel he must know what he's doing :) If you want any further details just drop me an email.

[Grim Reaper 14]

Don't get too excited at the thought of being smeared in goo by a sexy young nurse. I was physically assaulted by a large hairy South African man (nothing to do with the medical really, but fun all the same....;) ).

[Fly Stimulator]

I was physically assaulted by a large hairy South African man...


That was extra, and I wanted to keep the cost down.

[Who has control?]

hi Simon,
Welcome to Pprune - you don't have to be mad to post here, but it helps :) :)

I'm a SE England aviator too, so my 2p is to check if you would be flying off a tarmac or grass strip.

'Tarmac or grass' is a favourite topic on pprune and each has its advantages and exponents. But for a student, trying to maintain continuity of training, a hard runway has the advantage.
You have only to look at the weather we have 'enjoyed' over the last few weeks to realise that a grass strip is now a bog.
So even if the sky is clear and blue, you wouldn't be able to do circuits as the strip would be unuseable.

Stapleford has a hard runway and near to NE London, its quite cheap I believe although awkward to get to. I don't fly from there so I'm not biased.

Whichever field you chose - and Rochester is a very nice place to fly from, enjoy yourself.

Keep us posted as to your progress, but don't get hung up on the 'how many hours did you take' thing - its not worth it.

[Tiger_ Moth]

I hate to rain on your parade Simon but if by "New Year" you mean you want to start flying in January then the weather may have something to say about that. The weather in the UK in winter is worse than s**t and it might not be a nice introduction to flying for you to turn up at the airfield in the freezing cold only to hear "no flying" as some thunderstorm kicks in. Repeatedly. Even if you did get to fly the weather might prevent you from getting the most benefit from your lesson. I would suggest that you start in the spring when the weather is more favourable because I can't see you getting up very often in the winter.
For example, last winter I booked about once every week and didn't fly for over 3 months. I was using an older plane that couldn't take such strong winds etc but it gives you an idea of how restrictive the weather can be.
You seem very keen so how about getting some of the ground subjects out of the way in this awful weather, that way you will not have them hanging over you (like me) and you'll pick stuff up quicker when you start flying.

[Whirlybird]

I disagree. Winter can have cr@p weather - but it can also have clear frosty windless days that are perfect for flying. Spring can be OK - but likely as not it'll be windy or foggy or raining. Summer ought to be good - but half the time you get high pressure and cr@p visibility. Autumn - back to high winds and rain. In fact, in the UK the only thing you can be sure of is that whenever you start, a large proportion of your lessons are likely to be cancelled, and you'll learn more about patience than flying. Which, if you intend to fly in the UK, is not such a bad thing - because guess what you'll be doing when you get your licence. So go for it and start now; you might be lucky with the weather. You might not, but that applies equally to any other time of year.

[FlyingForFun]

I agree with Whirly. If we get a nice big high-pressure system, we can get some beautiful weathe in the winter. Also, I think it's important to do at least some of your training during the winter, so that your instructor can help you out making those go/no-go decisions - I'd hate to do my PPL in 3 months over June-August, then come October/November I'm faced with some marginal weather, maybe a bit of mist reducing viz to a little below what I'm used to, and I don't have the experience of making those decisions.

Just be prepared to be patient and wait for the weather to co-operate!

FFF
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[poetpilot]

I'd support Whirly & FFF's comments, and would add that part of the experience of becoming a pilot in the UK is to get good at reading the weather. It catches us all out occasionally, but it's fascinating stuff to analyse it.

You can usually spot a pilot when he/she walks out their front door. They always look up and scan the sky. In their mind, they're assessing how flyable it is (even if they're only going to the shops):rolleyes:

[sbaywatch]

Appreciate the comments re: weather, I know only too well how useless the British weather can be. (having to traspe to the City every day with my trusty umbrella !!)

But hey, it may surprise us and if I can get a couple of lessons in the winter months it's all good practice for the glorious summer which I'm sure we all hope we have.

One's thing for sure I will probably never pay so much attention to Francis Wilson or Ian Magaskill than I will next year !!

regards
Simon

PS: You have now got me thinking of part learning abroad where the weather is somewhat better, any excuse for a holiday !!!!

:D

[Keef]

Lots of good advice from some experienced folk!

I would re-emphasize the "pay nothing upfront" recommendation. Many would-be pilots have lost lots of cash that way. Pay as you go! If you have the cash sitting there, put it into an interest-bearing account.

Flying in winter is fabulous - better visibility than almost any other time of year, and the view of snowy fields etc from 2000 feet is a delight.

Remember it's icy, though, and listen to what the instructor says about airframe and carburettor ice. On my qualifying cross-country, I got out of the aircraft at Biggin and fell flat on my face on the ice. The aircraft taxied quite well on the slippery surface, but I didn't!

Learning abroad is good if you're in a hurry, but there are disadvantages too. There's lots about that in old threads - use the "search" tool at the bottom of the page to look for "Florida" and "California" and the like.

As one who has flown lots in the USA, I can tell you that it is a great place to fly, and if you have a full JAA PPL, they'll issue you an FAA one with only some paperwork to be done.

Flying in California, Arizona, Utah etc is nothing short of fabulous.

[Tiger_ Moth]

Obviously there CAN be good days in winter. They're just very rare and I've never seen one. Having your lesson cancelled due to crap weather is not going to give you experience of bad weather, it'll just annoy you. My point is that it'd be really frustrating to think you're going to start to learn to fly only to have, and this is realistic, maybe 5 lessons canned out of 6 due to crap weather.

[Whirlybird]

Tiger Moth,

Back in the days when Welshpool did three week residential courses, I saw guys book three weeks in the summer and never get airborne due to crap vis or whatever. Meanwhile, having moved heaven and earth to get my PPL in the summer so I could fly over Snowdonia to Caernarfon, I got my licence and made it across the mountains in October, my first flight as a qualified pilot. And also the only time I've made it over Snowdonia ever. :eek: And after cancelling flying the London Helicopter Routes several times, we made it on a lovely day in mid-December; only problem was barely making it home before sunset.

The weather is unpredictable in the UK, all year. I've been flying for five years; I'm beginning to know.

[FlyingForFun]

You can usually spot a pilot when he/she walks out their front door. They always look up and scan the sky. In their mind, they're assessing how flyable it is (even if they're only going to the shops)Damn, rumbled! :D Although it's usually when I'm on the way to the station to go to work.

FFF
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[Evo]

Obviously there CAN be good days in winter. They're just very rare and I've never seen one. Having your lesson cancelled due to crap weather is not going to give you experience of bad weather, it'll just annoy you.


Almost the whole of December last year was perfect flying weather (but yes, after that it was crap until April), and when you're flying it is wonderful with the kind of visibility you almost never get in summer. You'll cancel a lot of lessons, but not being able to fly due to the weather is part of flying in the UK and it doesn't change when your PPL arrives (it actually got worse for me, because I was over-cautious about my go/no go decisions. Still am). Everybody gets mad about it a couple of times and then deals with it. :)

[Circuit Basher]

Keef Remember it's icy, though, and listen to what the instructor says about airframe and carburettor ice
- I know that you know what I'm about to say, but felt it worth pointing out to the less experienced readers that Carb Icing can happen in any season, not just winter!!

I was as surprised as any to find when flying in Brunei (OAT 34 deg C but up to 98% RH), carb icing is a major issue.

Not trying to pick a flame war - just not wanting to permit some of the studes reading this to think that carb icing is a winter only thing!

[Flock1]

sbaywatch,

I started my PPL this summer, thinking that I'd get it all completed in my 6-week holiday, (I am a teacher). However, I didn't complete it, and am currently up to the cross-country stage. And so, to offer my limited advise, I would get those lessons booked ASAP. Yes - lots will be cancelled, Yes- you will get pissed off. But at least you can begin.

I just wish that I had started earlier, because then I might have actually passed my licence. But as other posters have rightly pointed out, you do get used to having lessons cancelled. Just to put you more in the picture; in the summer, I had 4 hours booked every day for 2-weeks, and I actually only flew for 2.1 hours in total. So don't rely on good weather in the spring and summer...we're in England for F**K's sake !

P.S I've sent you a private message! (Not as dodgy as it sounds...honest!)