Advice on a larger training aircraft

[zczcr39]

Hi all,

As a low houred PPL student i'm still enjoying the youthful thrills of being in the air but being quite a tall chap (6ft4') i'm finding the confines of the 152, let us say, somewhat lacking. I wonder if any of you could suggest a switch to any other training aircraft that are a little more roomy. Katana? Pa-28/38? 172? Other?

Us tall flyboys also have the advantage of broad shoulders and i can safely say there's not a funnier sight in the aviation world than my tiny instructor cramped in next to me. For both his sake and mine, advice please,

Many thanks,

[ratsarrse]

I'm in the same boat as you. I just cannot physically get my legs inside a C152! The 172 is far more comfortable...

[FlyingForFun]

Surely what you fly in will be determined, to a large extent, by what's available? See what other aircraft your school has, and any others near by. Ask to sit in them. (If a school won't let you sit in their aircraft, find another school!) Then go with the one which you find most comfortable!

FFF
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[Bodie]

zczcr39, Assuming your weight is in proportion to your height, I'm surprised the C152 gets off the ground :eek: . Perhaps your instructor is very small?

I have a share in a PA28 Archer, obviously, it has much more room than a 152. The seats go quite a distance back, although any rear passengers will not appreciate this as much as you do. It also has a low wing so perhaps you might find it easier to get in and out, compared with a 172.

I am of average proportions 5'11" and have found this a beneficial attribute for GA ;)

Good luck

[KCDW]

The PA28 might be for you. I’m 5’ 10” and struggle to get a decent view over the cowling when the seat is right down. I say this, because most club PA28s I’ve used seem to have a broken seat raising mechanism :D, so I tend to have to use a cushion.

Only thing against the PA28 as a trainer, is there is a definite knack to landing the thing due to the long float (low wing/ground effect). If you fly out of a short strip like Headcorn, and miscalculate, you can find yourself running out of runway fast.

Side topic – am I the only one who can’t raise the seat on PA28s?

[PPPPP]

I started training on a Grob 115D but due to height and weight (just under six foot, 92 kg!) I swoppped to the C172 about 14 hours ago, and am now much happier than we can fill the tanks to full:)
Even in the C172 its .....cosy...... in the front with a slightly lighter but still tallish instructor<G>

[rustle]

zczcr39,

I'm 6'3" and trained in an AA5.

One of the guys training at the same club was taller and substantially "wider" ;) and had no problems either.

Low wing, sliding roof canopy.

Only time it gets "close" (i.e. head smashed against roof) is when you practice stall recovery and get loads of negative (well, zero) "G" - but you only do it once :D

[Cat.S]

I'm 6'2" and fairly broad shouldered. I find the PA 28-161 great for headroom, but a bit restricted on shoulder/elbow room. PA 38 has as much headroom and is noticeably wider for shoulders (maybe as much as 4"!). If I remember rightly, PA 38 cabin is about 7" wider than a 152. The best has got to be a TB9/10 where cabin is about a foot wider than the PA 28. I can't get into a Katana at all.

[Sam Buca]

I had a similar problem, being 6' 6" I found that the C-152 was way too uncomfortable for me. So I switched to a PA-28, found that a bit lacking in space for my shoulders, and having only 1 door on the rhs was a pain in the backside for getting in and out. Eventually I tried the C-172 and had absolutely no problems at all, a bit more expensive but worth the money in terms of comfort on the x-country flights !

Hope that helps !

[fernytickles]

Have a friend who is a long-legged 6'4 and has problems with the PA-28 (including control column restriction) but is fine in a 172.

[ModernDinosaur]

I have taken a 6'4" colleague for a flight in a Katana and he seemed to fit comfortably (but not with full fuel!). That said, if you have an "unusual" ratio of upper body height to leg length you may find the canopy and/or rudder pedals uncomfortable.

My first ever flight was in a Cessna 172 and even at only 6' I found it very uncomfortable. I got my license in a Katana, and have since converted back to Cessnas as there are simply more to choose from (I still prefer the Katana though!). All of the Cessnas I've flown have an adjustment for seat height with a surprisingly large range. If it's right at the top I suspect even 5'10" people must bang their heads on the ceiling, but at the other end of the range my head gets nowhere near the ceiling even in the 152. Next time you fly, take the time to look under the seat for a "window winder" before you get in - quite a lot of people (even some instructors) seem not to know it exists, but it can make a huge difference to your comfort.

Cheers,

MD.

[distaff_beancounter]

zczcr39
I too would recommend the AA5 series. They seem to fit all sizes, as I am only 5'6", but have several friends who are well over 6".
The original AA5As were factory fitted with 150HP Lycomings, but many have been refitted with 160HP engines that improve performance. If you are likely to have problems on weight, as well as height, then the AA5B & AG5B versions, both have the 180HP engine & a better payload.


KCDW Side Topic - am I the only one who can't raise the seat on PA28s? NO! They do seem to have a mind of there own. :(
I find that the best chance of success is to try & raise the front seats, when NOT sitting on them. I do the right front while standing on the wing, then sit on that seat & do the left front.:)

[knobbygb]

KCDW, PA-28 seats! Tell me about them! :mad: Ones with broken mechanisms aren't too bad - at least you know you have a problem and can deal with it before takeoff. Try flying one where the mechanism leaks and gradually lowers itself over perhaps 10 minutes. Wrestling a cushion, or a couple of books, off the back seat and under your bum while trying to fly straight and level is no fun. Is it just me, or is this a fairly serious safety issue? Nobody else I speaks to seems too bothered - hence the proliferation of cushions in the a/c.

Back on the main subject of the thread, I am reasonably tall (6 foot ish) and still find I have to have the seat to its maximum height in a Pa28 to get a good view over the nose. This means I always seem to bang by headset on the sun-visor and am forever re-positioning it (the headset).

[FoxRomeo]

You can say all you want about them Frenchies, but they sure know how to make you fell all compfy in their planes. Flying a Socata TB10 myself, it's like being in a Merc. Been flying the Grumman Tiger as well, but sorry guys, can't compare.

FR

Ok, ok, I admit the AA5 is slightly faster.;)

[152small]

At 6ft2, Its a tight squeeze in a C152, but have enough (just) to be able to cover all control movements effectively. Don't know how long it will take to get feeling back in my backside after cross country flights though.
I think the doors on a 152 were an afterthought. I'm almost tempted to wear a crash helmet when trying to post myself through the letterbox like door space, one of these days am convinced will bundle out headfirst and knock myself out. :o As I am comfortable enough to be safe, I'll probably stick it out for consistency and check out on something a bit more appropriate for my size

152small

[Abbeville]

T6.....STACKS of room! :D

Seasons greetings to all

ABB


Top tip: Always get someone else to pay for the gas ;)

[ratsarrse]

With the 152 I was fine when I was flying it, but it was when the instructor was flying I had problems. If I wanted to get my feet clear of the rudder pedals my knees would get wedged under the yoke :eek: I had visions of my instructor not being able to rescue us from a novice's 'creative' landing.

[Taildragger55]

At 5'7'', my first 10 hours were flown on instruments (and not flown well) until my instructior noticed and introduced me to a piece of technology called a "cushion".
Life got a bit easier then...

[Final 3 Greens]

KCDW

If you are running out of runway at Headcorn due floating, you would find it useful to spend some time with the POH in respect of approach speeds.

I regularly operate into a 700m strip in a PA28-181 and it is very comfortable.

You may be flying down the glideslope too quickly.

I tend to use 65kias at gross, with flaps 40 and about a 5 degree glideslope (about 550-600fpm depending on windspeed) - ladning roll is typically 250-300m.

BTW, I'm just an average PPL and a real stick and rudder pilot could do better I'm sure.

[foghorn]

Being 6'3" and broad-shouldered, I've not found too many problems with most common training types. I've never flown a PA38 so can't comment on that.

One problem that I have had is running out of aftwards elbow travel during stalls in certain types with large seats (the AG5B springs to mind), making it difficult to get the control wheel fully back without changing hands. Most types have a decent gap between the seats and the a/c wall to get my elbow in, but types with plush seats often don't.

[RW05]

Try being 5' 1"! No. it's not a misprint. Wish it was.

[formationfoto]

One rather 'off the wall' suggestion for coping with vertical excess in training is to identify an aircraft with very little constraint in the 'tallness of occupant' department. One such example would be the Tiger Moth, still in use for ab initio training at locations such as Cambridge. There are of course disadvantages in having more of your frame in the slipstream but at least the limit on height is well beyond the height range of even extreme humans (the limiting factor is the upper wing).

Whilst intended as a slightly light hearted suggestion this is an entirely practical proposition which removes the problems you cite.

[Cleared_to]

6' 1" and the PA28 is fine. Funny thing I saw once on an ACA A320 was a big French guy, maybe 6'5" and 250 lbs, he took up a lot of the room in the cockpit. Captain was maybe 5'5" and not too big. Funny when you compare them in size.