Redhill Aerodrome. The new Gatwick?

[sennadog]

I haven't as yet found a URL to a story in the Evening Standard tonight stating that it was to become the new Gatwick. Talk of 2000m RWY has got me all excited but I can't see how that would fit within the confines of the existing property - beats using the taxiway in Winter.:D

A red herring I reckon but does anyone have some firmer news?

[Select Zone Five]

sennadog's missing link :p (http://www.thisislondon.com/news/articles/2501155)

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£800m plan for 'new Gatwick'

By Patrick McGowan, Evening Standard

16 December 2002

Ministers are considering secret plans to develop a small private aerodrome near Redhill into an airport handling 15million domestic and European passengers a year.

"London Redhill" would circumvent a ban on expansion at Gatwick, only five miles away, and its supporters say it could be operational within four years of planning permission being granted. Alternative plans for expansion at Heathrow and Stansted would take 10 to 15 years to complete.

The new airport would be linked to Gatwick by rail but would have its own terminal, check-in and immigration facilities. It would have a 2,000-metre east-west runway parallel to that at Gatwick.

The proposed £800 million expansion of Redhill would have a number of advantages for developers. Only a small number of houses would need to be demolished, no public money would be needed and almost all the land is already owned by Redhill Aerodrome Ltd.

Neither would there be any disturbance to protected wildlife sites - a major issue with the other option of developing a new airport at Cliffe on the Kent marshes.

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Interesting plan. Is there much Nimby activity at Redhill? I've been planning to fly in from Biggin for ages now but I'm scared of Gatwick! :p

[Fly Stimulator]

A 2,000m hard runway would certainly be nice, especially at this time of year when the grass gets wet enough to require a seaplane rating.

It would present a bit of a sporting challenge too, since it would need a 180 degree bend halfway along its length in order to fit within the current airfield. Even more fun than using the taxiway - I can't wait!

[Stampe]

Excellent idea serve all the local nimbys right then they,ll wish they,d allowed the airfield to develop in the much smaller ways proposed in the past.Reminds me of West Malling where in the end the protesters wanted the airfield proposal reinstated ,they ended up with a vast sprawling Industrial estate and hideous residential area called Kingshill a sort of council estate for the middle classes.

[rex]

Stampe

I remember the West Malling fiasco as I lived not too far away. Usual thing is that NIMBYs always protest at aviation, but when they lose it or get a "prestigious"(?) housing estate and office/industrial complex they change their tune. Perhaps we should all time warp to the 60s when aviation was "in".

Any way why not concrete the whole SE, then it wouldn't matter which direction the wind was blowing.

Slightly off topic I know but I felt like a rant:D

REX

[t'aint natural]

It will be a disaster if Redhill is lost to general aviation. In all probability the required 'protection' around Redhill would close the gap between the Gatwick and Heathrow zones, close down Kenley and impinge on Biggin Hill operations. Biggin to Fairoaks, Blackbushe or points west via Booker or Shoreham.
The whole concept of airport expansion in the south east is fundamentally flawed. Our problem is that the entire population of the UK is forced to travel to Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted because it suits their owner to direct traffic to three virtually co-located major airports. The solution is not a fourth co-located airport but a major international airport serving Scotland and the north of England.
Don't bitch about Nimbys at Redhill. If you're a GA pilot, you'd better be thinking about joining them.

[Kefuddle_UK]

The whole concept of airport expansion in the south east is fundamentally flawed.
BINGO!

Unfortunately, the best 'investment' the incompetant fools that call the shots can think of is usually...<drum roll>... the cheapest option...<crashing symbols>. I mean why build where the business and communication links are needed most when the infrastructure is already present in the SE? Why indeed :rolleyes:

[rex]

t'aint natural

I agree with your statement about GA. But here in foggy Rochester you have the council wanting to stiff us and the NIMBY's opposing a Cliffe airport. It seems that Joe public are so uneducated when it comes to flying. I told my work colleagues that I was a pilot and had got my licence. They didn't believe it. Obviously have to fly shiny jets and wear gold bars before they believe you.

I really wish some thing more was made of GA. The possiblities...............ahhhhhh

REX:)

[Stampe]

Ah well I see it from all angles I fly a shiny jet from LGW for a living,keep my own light aircraft at Rochester and run and instruct on the companies flying club light aircraft out of Redhill.In the end what will be will be.The great shame is that West Malling which was lovely field was not developed inclusively for ALL light aviation(the proposal was biz Jets only) and the grass fields developed .The planners missed a golden oppurtunity. :rolleyes:

[aidanf]

What's a 'NIMBY' - sorry I had too ask....I'm a bit thick....and it's only 6am!

[Ace Rimmer]

Hmmm well it certainly would make all year round ops better for trips from the Rimmer News offices, but wasn't this idea floated a few years back and pretty much shot down by local NIMBYS and the Surrey CC (in their transport plan which only allows the airfield in its current form and then under sufferance). Let's look at the practicalities, can't extend east the M23 is in the way and to the west there's a hospital and more than a few houses. As much as the oewners of the field might like the idea I can't help thinking that this one is dead in the water.

aidanf :NIMBY Not In My Back Yard

[Hersham Boy]

Stampe

"...serve the nimbys right..." Sorry, mate - this seems to me to be a particularly stupid point-of-view. You give me the name and address of one person in the UK that would actually WANT a major airport runway in their back yard. Commercial pilot or not, I doubt you would welcome such a move within 5 miles of your house?

That said, I'm not defending the people who move into the area of an existing facility and then moan about it, or people who complain about light aircraft flying at 5000' above their houses...

But, as a pilot flying out of EGKR and a local, I defend both the GA aspects of losing the field and the rights of incumbent residents not to have to endure the noise and financial ruin due to inability to sell houses as a result of some cretin deciding that East Surrey is the perfect location for a new European hub.
I've not even seen a convincing business case that says the UK needs one.

Hersh

[Penguina]

I know a Redhill NIMBY personally. I'll ask her about it next time I see her. From what she says, they already have a fair amount of noise to put up with, not just from aviation. I'm not sympathetic about that, she's living in a posh area she chose to move to and could always move away from, but an airport would transform the place - indeed the whole of the SE - for the worse.

[ratsarrse]

Personally I would oppose any airport expansion in the South East. Airspace is already looking pretty tricky in the region as a whole - building another airport or dramatically increasing the capacity of an existing airport can only make things worse. ATC services appear to be overstretched already despite (or should that be because of?) new facilities. Further areas of restricted airspace would certainly restrict GA aircraft to an unreasonable extent.

More important are the transport links to any proposed new airport. The SE seems to be blessed with the nation's worst rail company. Access by road to Heathrow and Gatwick is already problematic for anyone living north of London. All roads lead to London and getting anwhere south or west of it involves using Satan's own motorway.

I don't expect it to happen, but if we had some kind of joined-up integrated transport policy that properly connected buses to trains to airports then an additional airport might be worth discussing.

[formationfoto]

I suspect one thing we should not lose sight of here is that there is a considerable amount of politicking going on from all concerned with regard to airport expansion. The Kent option is designed to annoy the bird loving types and is probably there to act as an option which can easilly be killed in favour of a third runway at Heathrow. The Redhill option might also be the result of a large pinch of 'spin salt'.


As GA pilots we should be concerned about loss of amenity should it happen as not only will we lose an excellent airfield we will also find more of our skies round London being occupied by commercial IFR traffic.

Perhaps there is a growing North South divide here with the North being GA friendly and the South being increasingly GA unfriendly. All we need now is someone to realise the commercial value in this and develop a GA community facility somewhere north of Birmingham where we could all go during our holidays to commit aviation when it is banned everywhere else.

There is of course nothing wrong with commercial aviation but ultimately for the private pilot it has to be seen as a threat as commercial pressures tend to win in the long run.

If Redhill does end up being the preffered option I would forget any debate about how it fits into the current environs as the only recognisable bit of the current Redhill post development will be the name. Those of us who knew Stansted as a relatively small regional airport will know the changes development can bring. I recall flying into to Stansted during my PPL training - you don't tend to hear of too many people doing that now! and I'm not one of the 'I flew with the Wright brothers' generation so it really wasn't that long ago (OK about 15 years ago but I'm not ready to be shot down for being over 50 yet!).

[foghorn]

Problem is most of the money that feeds GA is generated in the South East...

[Thirty06]

I can't believe they're trotting this old scheme out again.

as far as I can see there are proposals to site a major airport over just about every square mile south of Nottingham.

Everybody in the environs says they don't want them. Residents of Redhill (bit of a dump by the way), Salfords, Nutfield etc. have been protesting against the scheme for quite some time.

Kent doesn't want a new airport, Herts residents would rahter Luton didn't grow, Stanstead seems to be qute big enough thankyou, Gatwick's expansion would wipe out Horley (hmmm...), Birmingham has no space to bulge into, the protest signs against the Rugby scheme festoon the Warks. landscape, they won't reopen Bedford ...

That leaves Lydd. So there you go Dungeness international airport with train link via Ashford international staion (via Folkstone international hole in the ground).

Or just build another bit on Heathrow which is basically there to hide the sewage works anyway.

Thirty06

[sennadog]

The more I think about it the more I believe that we are being sold a dummy on the whole issue.

There is no way a 2000m RWY can be accomodated at Redhill with the M23 at one end and more than a few houses would have to be moved at the other end. As already mentioned, it would completely close the airspace between Gatwick and London pretty much putting the knockers on GA in this area and I would join the NIMBYs on this issue because a) it's my local airfield and b) I'll be honest, I don't really want large jets screaming past my house and before I get accused of hypocrisy I moved to this area knowing full well that LGW was there and I have no real beef with it.

As for proposals for Hythe (I think) the whole environmental issues surrounding it make it unlikely due to the opposition that it would receive. So the lesser evil, would be to extend LGW or another existing airport and I reckon this is what HMG is after.

Fly Stimulator. What do you need a sporting challenge for? You could land your aircraft on the rug in my living room.:p

[Fly Stimulator]

An even better challenge! :D

[sennadog]

Next time you're in the circuit using 08, extend you downwind leg a bit with the gas cylinder at Redhill on your right, over the common into Reigate and I'll put the red carpet (rug) out for you.

:p

[stephen cook]

This stupid plan is raising its head again. If you want to see how to fit a 2000m runway between the M23 and the railway have a look here: http://www.stoplondonredhill.com/

[Mike Cross]

Minor digression

I see the proposed runway has the M23 at one end and the railway line at the other, which has never seemed a sensible idea to me.

Southampton had the M27 built at one end
Northolt has the A40 at one end
Duxford had the M11 built across one end

All have had aircraft end up on the road, which is of course all the fault of the airport and not of the wombats who created a major trunk road in the overshoot.

This proposal seems to be reversing the pattern.

Mike

[Timothy]

Mike

Kegworth.

W

[pilotwolf]

Went into Redhill, yesterday, by road...

The locals, (NIMBY's?), have adorned the approach with posters and a banner claiming that Redhill is the country's most dangerous airfield.

As someone who is likely to be doing a reasonable amount of flying from there in the near future, despite their rather high charges, I would be interested in the justification of this claim.

PW

PS As all these anti-airport posters seem to adorn every tree/gatepost/fence around here - ruining my enjoyment of the beautiful countryside - can we get the posters charge with flyposting.... :}

[Timothy]

Redhill is the country's most dangerous airfield.It certainly doesn't behove any of us to speculate what is the "country's most dangerous airfield," but sure as eggs is eggs it ain't Redhill by a looooooooong way.

It has ATC and three runways, no high ground or obstructions, no traffic mix (unless you count helicopters and SELs), it is flat and level, has superb radar cover for a/c in difficulties. It is in the country and the approaches avoid the Reigate/Redhill overhead. The only possible finger that could be pointed is regarding the M23, and that is crossed at a reasonable height.

Actually I have talked myself into it being one of the safer airfields in the country! ;)

can we get the posters charge with flypostingThere are two Redhill Magistrates on this forum to my certain knowledge :}

W

[Papa Charlie]

I fly from there and have to admit haven't actually read the signs properly. I assumed they said WILL be most dangerous airfield with that whopping proposed runway shoe-horned in between the M25 and the railway line?

Having said that the locals have never liked the light aircraft activity....