SFT Bournemouth

[rjsl608]

I am soon considering starting an intergrated course through to frozen ATPL with these guys. (I've done my research, gone and talked at length with them and others. Put myself through apptitude tests etc etc) and formed the opinion that these guys, galls & facilities sound best me & my budget.
What i would really appreciate is contact with someone who has been through their doors and has gained a job at the end of the course.

Thanks.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

This has wind up stamped right through it.

However, just in case:

SFT went bankrupt some months ago. You must therefore look elsewhere. I have several good suggestions but like a good little Moderator you'll have to email me privately to find out.

Cheers,

WWW

ps can you smell that coffee yet?

[spitfire747]

Come on he may have been stuck on a desert island for the past 3 months and has only just returned home

[QNH 1013]

Sounds to me like he has been talking to Send Clowns !

[rebeccadblake]

what a good pilot he will make obvistly done a lot of reserch and talked to a lot of people!!.

have to agree with QHN.

However as this thead is now going I might as well add these following comments...

SFT has had a few offers(and are being seriously considered)by aviation training companies, and if all is well we may have a new FTO by april.

This is not a rumour.

In the not to distant future the building will be used for pilot training.

I say again for clarity... This is not a rumour.

SFT isn't being boken up into bits as someone last said.

Whoever made up that load of **** about there being a ground school in Bournemouth made up of Ex-ppsc instructors is a very sad person.

[rjsl608]

OK OK large amount of egg on face!!
(The jab they give u at the medical for being perfect hasn't come in to effect yet)

But Spit747's suggestion of being put on a dez island for the past few months isn't too far from reality.

But seriously can anyone recommend a good alternative school?

[notcavok]

Cheshire cat,

I am not sure where you get your info from but here are a few facts.

a) a maintenance organistaion (owned by a guy whose name featured quite a lot in the bible) on the field has bought sft's hangar they are also looking at using sfts office space.

b) another fto on the field is looking to rent some of sfts offices from the above mentioned.
This fto has been around for about 18 months but would be looking to pick up where sft left off except on a smaller scale.

c) Do not discount a groundschool setup affiliated to the above fto run by ex ppsc types.


<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Send Clowns]

SFT never went bankrupt, WWW dear boy. They went into administration, a very different situation. Latest info from the administrators, Fanshawe Lofts (who probably know a little more than the comics above <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> . Cheshire Cat EGHH is the only one close to the truth) is that a contract should be signed this week for the purchase of SFT Aviation Ltd. Due to commercial confidentiality FL would not tell us details until next week - such as who has bought the company and what their plans are for it. However they were able to confirm that the purchaser is in the business of flight training provision.

I am happy to post as many details as I have when more is available.

VNE if SFT get back on their feet I should be able to give you inside information, if they use any of the old groundschool staff, as I used to teach General Nav there last year. Otherwise I would certainly recommend Bristol for distance learning. Others I don't know much about.

[rolling circle]

Cheshire Cat wrote:
[quote] SFT isn't being boken up into bits as someone last said <hr></blockquote>
The majority of SFT's old building has been sold to a company that has nothing at all to do with aviation (Apart, perhaps, from painting aeroplanes.). However, the area containing the FNPTs has been leased to a separate company along with said FNPTs. I wonder what they could be intending to do with them??

[quote] Whoever made up that load of **** about there being a ground school in Bournemouth made up of Ex-ppsc instructors is a very sad person <hr></blockquote>
A consortium of ex-PPSC instructors has already submitted a proposal to the CAA for modular theoretical knowledge training approval.


Stick to what you're good at, Cheshire - a silly grin!

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

Send Clowns - get out into the real world

&lt;&lt;SFT never went bankrupt, WWW dear boy. They went into administration, a very different situation.&gt;&gt;

However you want to pick at it, SFT still closed its doors, took with it a lot of money, and slowed down/shut down a lot of dreams. And no, I am not slagging of SFT, that is just bad business but you cannot continue to blow their trumpet either!

[Peter Skellan]

Bankrupt, bust, under, administration, popped its cloggs, shut down, ceased trading or shut its doors. Its all the same to me.

Speculation about anything that comes from the ashes is a little pointless UNLESS you are compelled to train at Bournemouth airport. There are many excellent schools elsewhere you ought to select ahead of a new outfit at EGHH.

Any new outfit will have no track record or reputation for you to assess. Whilst it might contain some excellent names from previous ventures you will have little opportunity to make an informed training decision for at least their first 6 months of trading.

Personally I would be looking at some of the excellent established school out there - I am sure you can find the names...

PS

&lt;Peter I have taken the liberty of editing your post very slightly as it read slightly like you were speaking for me. I personally think that if some of the characters combined with the excellent sims that SFT had can be combined then we might see a halfway decent school arise from the ashes. WWW&gt;

[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: Wee Weasley Welshman ]</p>

[Send Clowns]

"Facts not Fiction" well bankrupt is a legally defined term, and the wrong one for this case.. SFT did not go bankrupt this is a Fact, in the real world, not Fiction. Had you any knowledge of SFT's current situation you would be aware of this this, thus WWW clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. In fact looking at the Oxford Dictionary of Law 'bankrupt' is a term applied only to individuals, not companies. Companies can go into administration or are wound up (go into liquidation), and the latter a worse situation. SFT was in administration until this week.

The same dictionary defines an Administration Order as "2. An order of the court under the insolvency act 1986 made in relation to a company in financial difficulties with a view to securing its survival as a going concern ...". Well it looks like that view has been realised.

It is a bit silly to start saying it's "bad business" to close for business. It is no business at all. They shut down peoples dreams, but that was never the intention, and largely due to factors way outside their control (if you are interested email me, and I will tell you what I know, but it is history now and largely irrelevant in detail). Why should I not blow their trumpet? They were a very good training organisation, cheaper than many and I would judge giving better service.

I will continue to believe Fanshawe Lofts assesment of the state of the company sale, as the negociations are confidential so no-one else knows at the moment, except the purchaser. More may be heard this weekend, but I am away. On Monday I will find out as much as I can, and post here anything I think relevant.

[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]</p>

[Send Clowns]

Peter Skellan you are starting to sound very self-centred and self-opinionated. It may not matter to you, but to those of us who lost money or a job, or in my case both as a customer and employee, it matters a great deal.

Whatever new school does start up here will be assessed when we know who is operating and how they go about operating the school. SFT in its previous incarnation was arguably the best school in the country for studying a modular ATPL. Certainly it gave better value for money than most of the well-known schools.

You don't know where the staff will come from, they may well have a good long record, as many of the staff of the original SFT are still in the area. So stop telling people from your ill-informed perspective what they ought to be doing. Feel free to recommend or give advice, but unless you explain why you should be judged to be an aviation training consultant, ought is not a word you should use. I assume from what you say you have not trained yet, but having both trained for an ATPL and taught students for ATPLs I would not tell people what they ought to do. What people ought to do is up to them, but I would recommend they judge for themselves the company that restarts SFT's operation.

[Sensible]

Well Send clowns, I'm with WWW on this one, in my book SFT has gone bankrupt! And, I am willing to bet that no wannabees will ever see their money again. I strongly suspect that the only ones who may even get a sniff of anything salvageable will be secured creditors and those don't include wannabees!

Whatever you choose to call SFT's demise, it is still otherwise known as BANKRUPTCY to the man in the street and the fact is whether the administrators salvage the company or not, I am willing to bet that at best, a new SFT will rise from the ashes of the old SFT leaving wannabees out in the cold and losing all of their money! And that doesn't matter which dictionary you look up the word "bankruptcy" in! I believe that the mushroom system has really worked in your propogation (fed bull **** and kept in the dark)

Do you honestly and seriously believe that any wanabee will ever see a penny of their money or ever receive any of the training which they have paid for? the companies recently trading as SFT have gone, gone, GONE!

[Megaton]

Sensible,

Having just re-read SC's posts I don't think he ever suggested (but I stand to be corrected) that students would receive any of their money from the SFT administrators so I think to criticise him for something he hasn't said is unfair.

SCs

Clarity of thought (pedantry to some) is an important quality in aviation. In this case, however, arguing the toss over the definition of bankruptcy is a rather pointless exercise and only likely to further inflame those who did lose money. You're loyalty to your former employer is admirable but, please, quit while you're behind.

[notcavok]

Clowns and Cheshire.

SFT no longer functions as a company. The job of the administrators is to sell the stricken company as a going concern. However we are now almost three months down the line and there is no sign of life. having said that another fto on the field not too far from sft are in the procees of getting approval from the CAA to run a new school at sft premises however on a very much smaller scale. (see my previous thread)

Cheshire I thought you would be promoting that well known fto next door to your current place of employment.Rumour has it they are producing the goods in terms of pass rates in both IRs and GFTs.
(Albeit with al little help from some very good instructors from sft).

Ref the sim FNPT2 or even R2D2 at sft if one looks at former thread regarding sft it is no secret that a certain person has bought it and will be working with (emphasis on the word WITH)
the fto hoping to step into the rather large shoes of sft. (a clue to the fto is that it has the same number of letters in its name as sft and is located on the nw side of the field).

Anyway enuff said time to open another tin!!

<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Ambassador1]

Send Clowns,

I would like to remind you of a couple of points you made on 21 August 2001:

[quote]
Note that I work for SFT, in the groundschool. Our managing director has just returned from visiting Naples. I understand that he is happy with what he found there (he has shown himself perfectly able to change his partner in this course if necessary, recently changing from OBA).

Ambassador's post in this thread is confirmed. They have stopped some of their maintenance at Naples, and have another maintenance base still up and running. The closure was for efficiency and to concentrate on training at Naples.

Florida Air had its operator's certificate suspended because of the citizenship of the owner - he is not an American citizen. It is expected that the certificate will be reinstated in the next few weeks.
<hr></blockquote>

Since you have all this inside information, please tell me what you think of your statement from August.

I might be wrong, but the warning that Ambassador and SFT were in trouble was discarded by yourself and you said that everything was going well.

I believe that Ambassador Airways is no longer trading and their offices, classrooms, and Hangar along with several of their aircraft have been purchased by other FTOs. I do not dare say Ambassador went Bankrupt for fear of another Oxford Dictionary lesson.

Last Question, what is going on with Florida Air? I have not had any word of the Airline operating, thought you might know.

Please Enlighten Us,

Florida Air

[Lightning ace]

Not Cavok

Don't you mean SS/E side of the field. Unless a new FTO has started in the industrial area.

As for the sale of SFT. I noticed on a list of busted companies for sale, a certain flight trainng school in Bournemouth. With an annual turnover of 3 million and a 'forward order book' of 1.8 million. Now who can that be ????

In this climate its only worth breaking up. Even aircraft sale are slumped and all those twins wont sell that fast unless its a fire sale.


<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Sensible]

Ham Phisted, I read into Send Clowns posting that SFT was not bankrupt and therefore SFT was not dead. By further inference I took that Send Clowns was offering a possibility that SFT would get the kiss of life by some divine force and trade as if nothing had happened. But here in the real World!!!

[notcavok]

Lightning,

Negative; the interested party is on the northwest industrial estate but a much bigger clue would be to re-arrange the the following letters TEA.

Reference the turnover and order book do we all live in a world of gnomes and goblins.(or maybe even sunreaders). I would certainly paint a better picture if i wanted to offload an ayling (oops I mean ailing) company.

<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[mboulton]

Well edited wee weasley welshman lets just wait and see
Mike Boulton sts

[Lightning ace]

Not negative NotCavok, Just realistic.

As for the figures I saw advertised. £ 3 million turnover it may well have been, but profit is the only figure / percentage I would be interested in. As for the 'forward order book' of £ 1.8 million, that had me in stitches. As anyone with a hint of knowledge in this field would know, that now Zero. Plus a stigma to boot.

We would all love to see someone pull a pheonix from these ashes and train future pilots well. I just think pilot demand is decreasing so training needs will do the same.

Good luck to anyone who is brave / foolish enough to give it a go.. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[mboulton]

well edited wee weasley welshman lets just wait and see

[Megaton]

Sensible,

You're missing SCs point which was that that SFT had gone into receivership (or administration or whatever) and were not bankrupt. I disagree with much of what he has said but I still don't think he was implying that any students would get their money back. But, as I said, arguing over the definitions only rubs further salt in the wounds.

[rebeccadblake]

for focks sake you lot!!!!.....

Ok you all seem to think that you are getting the real picture from the adminstators..... BOLLOCKS!

the adminstators are at no liberty to tell you ANYTHING! LET ALONE THE TRUTH. as I can work out 3 people from BFC(not staff) have spoken to the administators and so far they dont seem to stick to anything they have said other than its being sold to a local company.

NOT CAVOK... you are correct on some points(a,b,c). however you are wrong in what m***s is planning to do with it. Also BFC haven't employeed any of SFT's where on earth did you get that from?. I work with the instrutors every flipping day I know who works there.

the ex-ppsc instrutors thing will never go ahead they know that!! the management company of BIA only want 4 FTO's on Bournemouths airfield as they feel that this will prevent further "liquidations, or bankruptcies(whatever)" being caused, however they may set up somewhere not near the airfield. please note I have only just gained this information.

rolling circle ....... SFT is being SOLD not leased and as a WHOLE.. its not being broken up. although some of the smaller items i.e sims are being sold off to another company.

[ 12 January 2002: Message edited by: Cheshire cat EGHH ]</p>

[notcavok]

LIGHTNING,

Maybe its me but I was only confirming the position of SFTs possible replacement.As regards the financial side I am in total agreement with you.

CHESHIRE.

Are you 100% there are no instructors from sft working on a part time basis at BFC. I know their are but no names mentioned just ask L**** or M****
who run BFC. so enuff about gonads.

My understanding is M**** has bought or leased the hangar and the offices previously occuppied by sft and will sub let them to E*A. Further to your comments regarding the sim you should be aware that due to JAR the sim is now amore integral part of the IR and as a result is a necessity to any serious FTO as well as being quite a profitable machine ie :low on costs high in revenue.

Anyway the fridge door beckons for more amber nectar.

Cheers


<img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[rebeccadblake]

Notcavok... there is one sft instructor working at BFC on part time, although I have never seen him, so he is VERY part time... but anyway on that front you are correct... although he is not doing IR training..

I am also very close to a staff member of BFC I have asked him about this, and M***s certainly hasn't bought SFT's offices, and by the sound of it he wont.

I think I may have confused people with the comments.. Sft is being broken up.. I dont mean it literally, I just meant that most of their items are being sold off individuly.


I would love to who you are NOTCAVOK.. any clues?

[Lightning ace]

I also did not think M***** would have any interest in the SFT hangar. He doesn't need any extra space and for the few years I have known him he never seems a fool. I trust him with my single and not those cowboys at AAA.

Yes NotCavok it would be very interesting to see what E** would make of the old SFT setup. I suspect rather more that other parties I have heard mentioned ie C**Air and even another FTO who I have been watching very carefully after digging up not so pleasant financial info on them,P***T A***** C******. But like most of their plans, just pie in the sky
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Send Clowns]

Florida Air, in case you have had your head stuck in the sand, or somewhere else, for 4 months, some news for you. On September 11th some people destroyed the twin towers of the World Trade Centre with hijacked airliners. That is since I wrote those words. It drastically changed the flying training environment. The next course due to start at SFT dropped from 17 (about twice our break even figure on the groundschool, the less profitable side, so very healthy) to 3. You are quoting what I said in August, statements which were true at the time to the best of my knowledge. Did you really think that what was true in August was relevant on 12th September?

I have no idea what is happening with Florida Air, as I never had anything to do with them.

Sensible

You may know something about company law that Oxford University Press's experts don't. If so tell us.

Where do you get your information that students will not recover any money? Though I never said they would, the administrators opinion is that a little will be recovered. That is why the distinction between administration and liquidation is important, as more is likely to be recovered, and it is more likely that students will get a fraction of their money back.

Ham Phisted

I thought the distinction irrelevant (except to us who were affected) until this thread was started. If the recovered company is to be a success there has to be a fair view of it as a business. The more ill-informed speculation here is not a fair view

I doubt I will inflame the majority of those who lost money. I know many of them well, as friends and as students. Most have been very supportive, and do not have the negative opinion of SFT you might expect. I can't see one critic here who claimed to have been a student of SFT, or even claims any association or source of information. My source of information is (indirectly) the administrator. I am not "behind", as none of the attacks on my posts are even factually correct, so none are valid.

All

Do none of you have the patience to wait until the sale is announced, or not as the case may be? The timetable was for signing the contract last week, so if the sale went as planned the announcement should be tomorrow, not far away. Then instead of wild speculation and uninformed guesswork, someone could post the facts. That'd be a change, wouldn't it?

[Ambassador1]

Send Clowns,

BOLLOCKS!!!!

To start with I had friends Tower 1 so take your attitude and stick it where the Sun does not shine!

One incident does not bring down a company, in this case the 11th of Sept. There were warning signs back in August that SFT was in real trouble. The 11th of Sept. was the final nail in SFT's coffin. My problem with you is that you assured people that there was nothing wrong with SFT and a lot of people lost their HARD EARNED DOSH on your reassurances.

I also brought up Ambassador Airways and Florida Air to prove the point - you do not know what you are talking about.

If you know something then post it. If you are guessing or speculating, gossip about it at your local and not here where people spend real money on the words you type and assurances you gave as a self appointed representative of SFT.

Sincerely,

Florida Air

[F900B]

Send Clowns

No offense, stick to what you do best instructing, as some people have pointed out to you, alot of people lost hard earned money and there dreams down the toilet etc

Your defending a company that was taking students money right up till the last day, knowing that tomorrow they be closed down.

And also i dont think its your place to comment on sft's business, your not there PR Department thats for people in management and all the way to the owner etc

And may i add not one of them bothered to come to pprune other than a few instructors like youself

[DesiPilot]

Anyone who is interested, a Piper Aztech was just ferried to Orlando FL. Registration GYSFT!! The rumours are that there are four more being ferried here. The plane is parked at Kissimmee airport and bought by CABAIR.

[Sensible]

Coals to Newcastle huh! Oh well if they are giving them away almost free then I suppose it makes sense!!!!!!!!! After all, I guess they are already paid for by the creditors of SFT!!!!!!!