Time to evacuate

[goranb]

I'm havinga refresh course in SEP and the question has been raised about time allowed to evacuate an aircraft. We couldn't agree on the beginning of the 90s timing. Is it staring when the a/c is stopped or at moment Captain gives Evac command. In some cases it can be up to 30s difference (at least by my company SOP)
Does anyone have a reference that I can use?
Thanks

[BlueEagle]

The precise definition will be a part of the certification of your aircraft by the issuing authority, (in your case Malta?), and may vary a bit from country to country.

On the registers that I have operated aircraft the 90 seconds has been timed from the time the order was given, either by the tech crew, (if still able), or the senior surviving Cabin Crew member until the last able bodied pax and crew were out of the aircraft.:)

[Captain Stable]

I would concur with BE. 90s from the order being given, whoever gives it, on all aircraft registers that I have had anything to do with.

[goranb]

I didn’t agree with the instructors statement that timing begins when a/c is stopped. It takes time for PIC to asses the situation, talk to ATC, Fire Chief... Then, as you guys say, Captain or next alive in a chain of command gives an order to Evacuate and everybody should be out in 90sec.
I believe this timing has to do more with how big exits manufacturer has to make in order to satisfy regulator that a full load of pax can evacuate in given time. So it would be un-logical (stupid) to start counting before the Evac actually starts and that is the moment the order is given.
I'd like to thank you for your replays. It would help me if you know a reference that I can use to prove my case.

goranb

P.S. Unfortunately I'm no longer in Malta. :( - have to change my profile.

[CD]

...It would help me if you know a reference that I can use to prove my case...

Hopefully, the information and link below will be what you're looking for:

The requirement for the airplane manufacturer to conduct an evacuation demonstration for airplanes having a seating capacity of more than 44 passengers was established in Part 25 (25.803) by Amendment 25-15, effective October 24; 1967. The time limit for the manufacturer's demonstration was established at 90 seconds, and the Part 121 time limit was reduced to 90 seconds. It was considered that the manufacturer's demonstration would show the basic capability of the new airplane and, as before, the Part 121 demonstration was intended to account for crew training and adequate crew procedures. Therefore, the test conditions were somewhat different.

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A full-scale demonstration is conducted to assess the evacuation capability of the airplane and, when compliance with 5 25.803(c)(7)(i) is requested, to also demonstrate the effectiveness of crew training and emergency procedures. Section 25.803(c) specifies the conditions for conduct of the evacuation demonstration.

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To constitute a successful test, all passengers and crewmembers used in the demonstration must be evacuated to the ground or to an off-wing stand or ramp, if used, within 90 seconds. Use only the number of passengers for which approved seating is provided, not to exceed the limits of 5 25.807(c) or (d). No credit is given for the number of evacuees on the ground at 90 seconds if all persons have not been evacuated.

***********************

Neither the crew nor passengers should hear or otherwise receive any. indication that the demonstration is about to begin. The first indication to persons on board the airplane should be the test start signal.


AC 25.803-1 Emergency Evaluation Demonstrations (http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/7075D43FFAE5D76B862569B300547706?OpenDocument&Highlight=evacuation)

[Ignition Override]

Do the younger crewmembers (both FAs and pilots) realize that when these demonstrations are performed by the manufacturer, the "passengers" consist of MD or Boeing (even at Airbus?) employees and family members? It is a very "rigged" and unrealistic demonstration, and was normally conducted in a well-illuminated aircraft hangar. The so-called "passengers" are all well-briefed and prepared for playing this game for the FAA, and do it over and over until it is done within the required time limit: what a charade. Maybe with a serious situation in the real airplane with real passengers, the Rescue crew can be reached on Ground or Tower freq. If you have a tiny bit of smoke and flames contained within the exhaust pipe of a jet, you might nOT want to evacuate. A Delta crew coordinated with the Rescue crew years ago and kept everyone onboard in their seats and calmed down, instead of risking serious injury on evac slides from high in the air, as the fire truck sprayed the engine exhaust.

Don't let anyone fool you-I've watched these demo films on tv, either on the Discovery Wings channel, or on others.

There is only a general connection between this game and the real thing. Many actual passengers go forward to the main cabin door, no matter what instructions are given by crewmembers. Many have been seen to pull their bags etc from overhead bins before they consider leaving the plane, especially when no smoke or fire is noticed. It is fascinating just how may unwitting passengers are allowed (by the certification rules) to be seated/"crammed" into those many coach seats, far from aircraft exits, and on a very windy day, good luck to those going down evac chutes from a large aircraft, whether overwing or not. Let's just hope that the slides are fully inflated.

Even the floor lighting was not required in the US for many years (also triggered by loss of the DC Emer Bus).

[OzExpat]

I saw such a demonstration test many years ago, at the training facilities set up by one particular international airline. They used their own personnel, of course.

There was record absenteeism throughout the following few weeks while many of the staff sought treatment for broken legs, arms, hands, fingers... :eek:

But, hey, at least they ALL got out within 90 seconds! :D

[Ignition Override]

Oz Expat-thank you for the verification.

[*Lancer*]

Ignition Override,

I read somewhere last year that the FAA conducted a certification trial where the first XX passengers out the door got a bucketload of cash... to falsely create a 'panic'. :D

Lancer

[CD]

...FAA conducted a certification trial where the first XX passengers out the door got a bucketload of cash... to falsely create a 'panic'...

You're likely thinking not of certification trials, but rather evacuation studies that include a monetary motivation.

The FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute conducted a study involving egress through Type III exits:

Access-To-Egress I: Interactive Effects of Factors That Control the Emergency Evacuation of Naïve Passengers Through the Transport Airplane Type-III Overwing Exit (http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/AAM-400A/Abstracts/2002/am02-16.htm)

Cranfield University in the UK has also conducted evaucation studies using this method:

Aircraft Cabin Simulators (http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/soe/aircraftevacuations/)

Duke of Kent Opens World's Largest Aircraft Evcatuion Cabin Simulator (http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/university/press/072001/1.htm)