anyone with experience on a Monney M20

[aidanf]

Bit of advice please, gents! V. interested in Mooney M20 type a/c - range and speeds look v. good but anyone know a downside - maintenance, etc..!!! Good or bad experiences!! Any help would help me make a decision!!
Cheers

- The Blimp

[Mooney Driver]

Maybe I can help. Have owned two; first was a 1975 M20E Chapparal; 200HP, normally aspirated, fuel injected, owned for 10 years - wonderful!
Second (present) 1980 M20K 210HP Turbocharged, owned for last 7 years, even better.

Previously owned Cesna 177RG and Grumman Cheetah. Mooneys have been by far the best of all.

Used to plan on 150Kts at 38Lt/hr in the M20E Now plan on 170-180 Kts (depending on altitude) in the M20K, (42Lt/hr.)

Maintenance has been reasonable on both, - no nasty surprises, but I am the ONLY pilot and am very familiar with operating requirements.

The M20K, in particular, is a surprisingly versatile aircraft. It is capable of operating out of a friends 650m dirt strip but equally at home at FL180 on a 1000nm non-stop trip.

I'm in Australia and frequently fly Sydney to Mackay non-stop, 75% power, landing with more than one hours reserve.

Mooneys are fairly popular here in OZ, due to good speed and range capabilities.
Only downside is payload. M20E was a 4 (small) pax hauler with light luggage, the M20K is a 3 person machine at best.

Very active owners group with annual advanced training courses. in US and Australia.

If you have any more specific questions, let me know.

[Loop... Hole]

I had a share in an M20J until 2000. It was a spectacular machine for private air travel. I used it for business trips around the UK and for cross channel breaks. The avionics upgrade to keep up with airways requirements was fairly costly but other than that it was very reasonable on operating costs.

Our group had removed the innermost gear doors which reduced anxiety when operating from bumpy grass strips - in fact many group members refused to fly from grass at all but I found no problems.

Downsides?

It is very low on profile drag which means the cabin is small, yet it is designed with Texans in mind. I'm 188cms tall but my passengers sometimes complained of being able to see nothing ahead but instruments.

Mooneys (IMHO) are not good for satisfying all pilot's desire for recreational 'bimbling about' flying, they want to go somewhere, and fast. Don't expect to go sightseeing around anything except on the scale of counties at a time!

Also, you've got to wash and polish a Mooney and keep it pristine at all times - because it is one of the most ogled types on the apron and you'll be showing it off a lot...

Good luck!
:cool:

PS: Question from a young passenger as we walked towards the Mooney on a crowded apron "Wow, is this the best aeroplane here?" Looked around and decided on the honest answer... "Oh yes indeed!"

[bookworm]

I'd agree with all the points made so far. I've had a share in a M20J (201) for 10 years and never for a moment regretted the choice of aircraft.

Speeds? I'd expect 160 KTAS at FL100
Range? More than my bladder ever managed to cope with (5.5 hours as above + reserves)
Maintenance? Surprisingly economical with all things considered. Comparable with Arrows and similar VP/retractables

Downsides:
1) Field performance: Notwithstanding Mooney Driver's comment, though 650 m of smooth grass is possible, it's not comfortable. The rubber shocks give it a suspension like a shopping trolley and it's really not made for bumpy surfaces. The clean wing means that its landing performance is not exactly STOL.

2) Payload: Useful load of ours is 860 lb, which gives just 480 lb with full fuel. Fine as a 2-person aircraft, occasionally 3, but if you regularly carry 4 adults it may not be for you.

3) Crosswinds: The combination of ground effect from the low-set wing and the stiff gear can make the last 10 knots taking off in a serious crosswind quite entertaining. Some might find this limiting.

If you're not bothered by 1,2,3 above, then it's a no-brainer. Just do it.

[Radar]

Aidan,
Very limited experience with the aircraft (M20J) on my part. A delight to fly, handled beautifully ... but impossible to land. Purely personal. As Loop...Hole said earlier it's built for Texans. At 174cm, the seating position is like sitting in a bath-tub and during the flare all reference to the runway was lost. Not ideal really. Did Mooney really build an aircraft that fit's only one size? Like I said, loved flying the aircraft, hated the latter stages of the approach. Good luck with the decision making.

Slan

[aidanf]

Thanks for your comments so far - it's helped a lot. Didn't know about the payload limitations - what I'm really looking for is a good 3/4 adult tourer with additional useful luggage payload - for long distance touring. Based in Ireland, so touring would be to UK and Europe. If you don't think the Mooney will satisfy the payload issue, and ideas as to what might?

[eyeinthesky]

Also had a share in an M20J for a while. All comments so far valid, with the addition of:

1) Relatively little ground clearance for prop, so beware of bumpy grass taxiways.

2) The rudder pedals are a long way underneath the coaming. I am 6ft, and to reach the rudder pedals I had to sit close to the control column, so much so that I could JUST get full and free.

3) The one I flew had no brake pedals on the right, so checkouts were a little interesting.

4) A brilliant touring machine, but required good planning to get it slowed down in time for the circuit if you didn't want to shock cool the engine or cheat by using the gear as an airbrake (some of them have the latter).

If you can get into one, enjoy it. No other basic piston single (and some twins) can beat it on speed. :D

[bookworm]

I think you need to be more specific about the payload and length of journeys you want to do, and how often. By reputation the TB-20 carries more, but bear in mind you'll be paying £15 per hour more for fuel every hour you fly it, to do a few knots less. Over a year, that's a lot to pay if you only intend to use its extra hauling capabilities once or twice. Even with an 860 lb useful load, our Mooney will carry 660 lb for 3 hours with VFR reserves.

The problem with published useful load figures is that they don't reflect reality, sometimes being optimistic by 150 pounds or so on a sensibly equipped several-year-old aircraft. Check any particular aircraft before you buy it if that's important (get it wieghed).

[aidanf]

bookworm - simple answer is 'as often as I can!' - sorry, don't mean to be flippant, but I would hope to get up for a few hours at least once or twice a week. The once or twice a month do a long-run, with a full compliment of drunks and vagabonds, and then a few times a year go even further. I would expect to do Cork to Leicester (guess = approx. 600miles) return 5/6 times a year, and then even further travels to as far as the bird will fly for extended holiday cruising a couple of times a year. Does that help?

[bookworm]

OK, Cork to Leicester is 278 nm as the crow flies, probably 300 nm by a sensible routing. So it's two hours by Mooney, and a 650 to 700 lb payload is feasible. If you really intend to carry 4 people over that distance a couple of times a month, there may be more comfortable choices, but they will cost you. That said, over that sort of distance (say 300 to 500 nm, particularly where water crossings are involved) it's a wonderful way to travel.

[Courtman]

I've got 200hrs in an M20J and I'd agree with most of the comments above. It has a lousy payload (ours has 805lbs useful), and our club won't allow the aircraft to operate off grass at all. It is bouncy on the ground because of the suspension (or lack of).


However, it is a fantastic machine to fly! I love the controls, and if you land it just as the stall warner comes on it will be perfect every time. Land it fast and you'll be p-p-p-porpoising down the runway before you know it! I know it, it's only when I stopped concentrating so hard on the landing that it clicked!