air accident investigation

[empty pockets]

does anone know what qualifications are required to join the air acident investigation board, and how to apply?

cheers.

[Pro Spin]

empty pockets

I recently wrote to the AAIB with the same question - their response contained this description of the positions and qualifications required:

Inspectors (Operations):
These posts are recruited from professional pilots who must have a current ATPL and have extensive experience in more than one sector of aviation, but usually including large public transport jet aircraft. A test flying or management pilot background is an advantage. Rarely recruited under the age of 40 years

Inspectors (Engineering)
The engineers come from a variety of engineering backgrounds with a wide knowledge of aeronautical engineering and a suitable degree. They must be capable of investigating accidents across the whole range of aircraft, from microlights and balloons to public transport aircraft. The youngest age at which we recruit engineers is usually 30.

Other Posts
Mainly clerical dealing with administration of the Branch.


I hope this helps!

PS.

[empty pockets]

thanks PS.

i thought that the AAIB would at least have some kind of training scheme for graduates or younger engineers. seems that everyone these days wants an atpl as a minimum entry requirement!

[2WingsOnMyWagon]

I saw a tv show about aircraft safety (on Wings i think) It showed a training course for trainee accident investigators most of them were fairly young. It was in the U.S. mind. Maybe you could ask the FAA?

[clearair]

I was lucky enough to get an undergraduate placement at the AAIB for a month.
As far as I know they take on 3 students during the summer for 3 weeks each- training is invaluable.
More inspectors are desperately needed but is difficult to get employment because like the fire service it is funded by the government.

[lomapaseo]

I teach air accident investigation techniques and many of my students (about 50% do not have degrees) Most from the government agencies (ala AAIB/NTSB types do. The 50% that don't have engineering degrees often include pilots, and mechanicaly inclined looking to work within organizations in aerospace.

Here are some links to ask some questions before you embark on such a career.

http://www.scsi-inc.com/

http://isasi.org/

Good luck and say hello if you ever take one of my courses.

[newswatcher]

http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/coa/tech-atm/atm-4k.htm

[jungly]

Does anyone know of any correspondance courses available?
(At least the academic side of the course, I appreciate that hands on experience is invaluable)

[empty pockets]

i looked at the websites mentioned an found them useful (thanks guys).

how to these courses relate to an actual qualification? i.e. will the AAIB acknowledge the course as an entry requirement for employment?

i am planning to do my ppl,cpl etc in the US next summer, and may possibly do one or two of these courses whilst i'm there.

[lomapaseo]

> how (do) these courses relate to an actual qualification? i.e. will the AAIB acknowledge the course as an entry requirement for employment?

Best to check directly with the AAIB.

You might also check with the administrators of these course to see what they can tell you about where their students have progressed.

Many of the students take these courses already having a job and are upgrading their vocation.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've not yet been tempted to work for them (well not tempted enough) but I've had the privilege of working with AAIB on a number of occasions.

AAIB inspector is not an entry-level job, they recruit Engineers who are at IEng or CEng level, or ATPLs with a lot of experience. In practice, many of the ops inspectors seem to have a good grasp of Engineering, and almost all of the engineering inspectors have at-least CPL level flying knowledge and experience, if not the actual license. That is what you're looking for here, if you are pre-PPL and lack at-least an Engineering degree then although I'd say it's a thoroughly worthy aim, it's not going to happen next year.

Without doubt they are a very professional organisation who, if it wasn't for the obvious reason, I'd say I've always enjoyed working with. If you can find a route in, I doubt you'll regret it - or at-least not often. But, I would regard it as a "next job" after building up credible professional experience elsewhere, rather than something you can aspire to early in your career.

NTSB in the US is a much larger organisation with a very different way of working that lends itself to graduate training schemes (or whatever the Yanks call them), frankly AAIB isn't.

If you are a glider or hang-glider pilot, those organisations (BGA / BHPA) have small teams of (largely unpaid) accident investigators who are partly trained and resourced by AAIB, that might be a route to gain some relevant experience.

G

[Mariner9]

EP, dont you think it would be a rather depressing job?

[newswatcher]

Mariner, an interesting question, and one which probably depends on the incentive/motive driving someone in this career direction.

For example, I would doubt that those people who tend to "rubber-neck" at a motorway accident, would be suitable.

I remember attending a lecture at school from a member of the AAIB(name forgotten), and it was riveting. This guy just thrived on the challenge of discovering the cause of an accident, particularly where this proved not to be straightforward. He detailed how even simple pieces of forensic evidence could be interpreted - examination of a light bulb filament could indicate whether it was on or off at the time of the incident.

Satellite TV often repeats the Copa Airlines 737 Panama crash investigation, in which Tom Haueter is very thorough in his brief, and frustrated by following the "wrong" lead, at one point.

I guess the "interesting" aspect is more than balanced by the "boring", but it is certainly an occupation that I wish I had explored more thoroughly.

[BigGreenPleasureMachine]

like clearair, I did a placement at AAIB earlier this year, and its just about the best work experience an aeronautical engineer could hope for.


as regards training, they take on people when there are vacancies (due to retirements, generally) and send them on training courses run at cranfield, but they only, as was mentioned above, take people (pilots and engineers) with a vast amount of experience.


as for motivation, i found (as have others i know who have been involved there) that AAIB is actually doing something important and worthwhile, which isn't always the case in aviation.


i'm quite sure one or two of the current compliment down there in darkest hampshire procrastinate in the afternoon by perusing this blat, so they'll probably be having a good old chortle that so many folk want to steal their jobs......:D


anyone who is studying aeronautics should apply for the placements, great experience, and doesn't look too bad on the old cv.

Regards,
BGPM.

[lomapaseo]

Newswatcher, thanks for a very personal answer.

Also there is satisfaction in uncovering any of the many links in a causal chain, even when you don't get them all.

At least you have the pride in recommending corrective actions that will lead to improved safety against some future risk. I've always figured that my contributions over my career have saved one planeload of 747 passengers. That's enough motivation for me.

I've never heard the word depressing used by any of my compatriots.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The latest issue of Aerospace International carries a full page job ad from AAIB for twoInspectors of Air Accidents (Engineering) who are obviously required to be ADR specialists.

The main requirements are listed as:-

- Degree at 2:2 or above in electronic, or
- Degree in aeronautics + at-least 8 years flight recording experience.
- Excellent communication skills and computer literacy

There's a recruitment agency web address at the bottom of the advert, which is www.capitaras.co.uk , and the closing date is given as 6 Jan.

G