NYC Airports Closed - Four in Pilot Uniforms Arrested

[Airbubba]

6:12 p.m. EDT, Thursday, September 13, 2001


Takeoffs Are Halted
At New York Airports

The Wall Street Journal

THE FAA temporarily stopped take-offs at all three New York City area airports late Thursday after four men dressed as pilots attempted to board a flight leaving John F. Kennedy Airport.


___________________________________


Also reported on the CNN webpage. Looks like NYC area landings have now resumed from Flight Explorer.

[ 13 September 2001: Message edited by: Airbubba ]

[SunSeaSandfly]

Shock...horror... pilots board aircraft.
It might just be possible that the "men dressed as pilots" were actually pilots, probably tired of being stuck in New York and headed for home on the first available.
I suppose we can expect a period now where all pilots will be terrorist suspects.
Sheeesh....., and to think this job was once fun!
Are they going to pay danger money now? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Lerxt]

The "pilots" had fake ID buddy.

[BadAndy]

There were more at La Guardia airport, as well. They also had knives in possesion. Folks this is not over. I fear we are seeing the beginning of a long sustained conflict with many casualties on every side. May God have mercy on us all....

[TowerDog]

Those fake pilots: Were they by any chance Arabs or Egyptians or from Muslimstan?

If so, yeah this is not over.
Hope the New York police are not too gentle with 'em down in the basement.

Heard 4 guys were arrested in Dallas this evening: Fake IDs, dyed hair. Two were Indians (As in East India) and two were Arabs.
They tried to board a train to San Antonio!

Hmm, keep rounding up the vermin.

[Airbubba]

Arrests made at New York airports

September 13, 2001 Posted: 11:13 p.m. EDT (0313 GMT)


(CNN) -- At least eight people were arrested Thursday at airports in New York because of new security measures -- including four people who were seen at one airport before Tuesday's terrorist attacks.

One U.S. official told CNN, "Certainly this is being looked at -- that a hijacking was thwarted. There is concern in our office that this may have been another attempt."

In Washington, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Thursday night that any future U.S. military action against those individuals, groups or nations involved in Tuesday's terrorist attacks would be "self-defense."

"I don't think of it as retaliation. I don't think of it as punishment," Rumsfeld said on CNN's "Larry King Live." "The United States has every right to defend itself."

Rumsfeld spoke as at least eight people - including one who allegedly was posing as a pilot -- were arrested at two New York-area airports. One official said there was concern that another hijacking, similar to the four that occurred on Tuesday, might be attempted.

___________________________________


Yep, it ain't over till it's over...

[Eboy]

Around 6:45 p.m. EDT Peter Jennings on ABC said those arrested were not dressed as pilots as had been earlier reported. He said that earlier report came from information on a "pilot's website."

[Pentac]

I was watching NY1 news and the report stated two separate group were arrested. The report detailed those being arrested as having false airman credentials, Delta Airlines uniforms, flight crew style bags that contained box knife blades and plastic handles, and open-ended tickets to LAX dated on September 11.

Two of the suspects were challanged on Tuesday but fled.
Very brazen and very chilling.
:mad:

[TowerDog]

The same guys that fled on Tuesday got arrested today: Security cameras in the terminal filmed the whole thing.

Saw them hand cuffed and led away on TV this evening.

Fourth Degree coming up.....No silk gloves or human rights lawyers needed down at the station tonight. Wish I was there.

[SunSeaSandfly]

The "four men in pilots uniform" seem to have been downgraded somewhat to four men with fake ID, one of them with fake pilot licence.

What worries me much more is that, according to a TV report I saw this morning, four possible terrorists got past all the new security measures at JFK and sat in a loaded aircraft for up to two hours, before a swat team came on and siezed them. Report said they had weapons. Astounding.

I am disturbed that now there appear to be people who believe that they can get by with fake ID and real weapons in the middle of the biggest security flap the world has ever seen. Nobody is that dumb, so whats going on?

[Wino]

If the groundstop prevented other groups from taking over other aircraft, then they know the FBI must be closing in on them as the terrorist made no attempts to hide their identity. Indeed, they encouraged the pax to make phone calls so that there would be more press coverage.

So, if you were a terrorist that was expecting to die on the 11th, and you have been trapped on the ground by the halt to all flying, and you know the FBI is coming for you, what have you got to lose?

Its a sick new world, and make no mistake, this is war. The countries that support this crap have just lost their mandate to exist. We have gone to war for far less, including Pearl Harbor, the Lusitania, the Barbary pirates. The answer is to occupy each and every country envolved in this, set up a military gov't for 10 or 20 years, rule benignly adn build up their standard of living so people like us, build up the countries and then leave like we did in Germany and Japan.

The answer is not to just walk out and say we won, like the end of WWI or the persian gulf. Call up the reserves, reinstate the draft, this is gonna be a long process but is necesary before the next terrorist attack involves a nuke. And if anyone even thinks of giving one nickle to the IRA, they better have their head examined.

Wino

[stagger]

From CNN today...


Airline employees intentionally breach security

September 14, 2001 Posted: 12:24 AM EDT (0424 GMT)


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Three Northwest Airlines employees intentionally breached a security checkpoint at Sky Harbor International Airport in Phoenix as flights resumed Thursday.

Two ground crew employees cleared the checkpoint with a pocketknife and a corkscrew while a pilot passed without proper identification, airport spokeswoman Suzanne Luber said.

"Once they did that, they turned around and said, 'Hey, look what we did,"' she said. Their point: to show that security gaps still exist days after terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, she said.

Airport officials evacuated the terminal's north concourse and swept it for dangerous materials. Nothing was found and the concourse was reopened.

Luber said she did not know what happened to the three employees. "We would ask that nobody intentionally try to break security," she said.

Airport spokesman David Cavazos said the matter was referred to the Federal Aviation Administration.

A Northwest spokesman didn't immediately return a call Thursday.

Northwest provided limited service for a short time Thursday but it had canceled all flights by the evening, without providing details.

[Gaza]

Ladies & Gentlemen

Some of the rhetoric being spouted here is worrying.

Fourth Degree coming up.....No silk gloves or human rights lawyers needed down at the station tonight. Wish I was there.

What happen to "Innocent until proven guilty"? Three men were arrested in Boston at the Westin but later released. No connection with the terrorists.

Radio 5 Live have just reported that the FBI have confirmed that no men of Middle East appearance were dragged of aircraft by SWAT teams today. They have confirmed that a "screwball" (their words) was arrested. I think he is the guy with the fact ID and Pilots uniform.

They have asked for calm and for the media to be responsible in reporting rumours. They are concerned it will lead to more panic and cause further unnecessary suffering.

Anyone of Middle Eastern appearance is probably advised not to board an aircraft at the moment, less they want to find themselves staring down the barrel of a gun.

The levels of hysteria we are seeing is causing all sorts of problems. A mob attacked a group of Muslim school children in Brisbane today. These people are sick. What have Muslim school kids in Australia got to do with it?

[HalesAndPace]

According to latest UK news, the 12 people seized at JFK yesterday have been released (one pilot, 10 on the way to a Boeing conference & one screwball). Also, the man held yesterday at LHR has been released.
(Edited for typo)

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: HalesAndPace ]

[Lucifer]

STOP STOP

This is not every Muslim on the planet who wants to kill every Christian. This was a horrible attack carried out by a minority, and if things happen such as Wino is suggesting: going in and 'sorting out the whole country', this will only create even more of these evil suicide bombers. The Jihad did not exist until the West started meddling with the affairs of Afghanistan with Russian invasions and the CIA funding of the mujahdian. People need to take a step back to identify those who really did this and take only them out. And solve the problems which cause people to turn to these desperate acts, such as full on invasions and killing of innocents such (some not all) of the Palestinians killed by Israel.

The East and West must work together to stop this terror any mention of wiping out Muslimstan by people is just as bad as what they have done to those poor, innocent people from all nations in New York on Tuesday. This is a strange alteration in world geopolitics.

The security arrangements must in future keep people out of the cockpit who should not be there, and fully search all before boarding.

[Scud Runner]

I agree that care must be taken to avoid pointing our fingers at all Islamists, when these extremists have displayed no behaviour that would be condoned by the true believers of the Koran. What concerns me most though, is the way in which the Islamists of the world are reacting to this tragedy. While they seem to be sincere in their condemnation of the attacks in the US, I question why they, as a community, have not pulled out all the stops in an attempt to bring the perpretators of these crimes to justice. I cannot believe for a minute, that if a group of British, French, Americans, Canadians, or Aussie extremists had carried out a similar attrocity, that their own countrymen and women wouldn't do whatever it takes to see them caught. It's time for them to take action, which could only help to raise their stock on the world's stage.

IMHO

Scud

[Paterbrat]

Seconded.
I live and work in Saudi. I transited Beirut on the 11th. There was shock and horror expressed by most and more so in Jeddah as the full story unfolded. A majority of people in the world, not all, but a majority have looked to the United States for leadership and guidance as a superpower and the pre-eminant nation in todays world. It espouses certain ideals of freedom justice and equality. It has suffered a terrible act and there is a righteous and understandabley great anger at what has been done. Let the wheels of justice grind small let them grind surely and let the overtake every single one who is implicated in, who harbours and condones the actions of those who have done this, but resist a blanket retaliation aginst any who are simply thought to be associated, because to do so is to descend to the very pit in which those who have done this have emerged from.

[FMC]

Maybe the problem is that commercial aircraft have pilots and manual controls that are always in threat of being taken over for sinister reasons. The technology exists to make future commercial A/C like drones that have pilots as a backup with control and pilot access being ultimately controlled from the ground. You cannot point an A/C at a building if you cannot take control even under the most violent conditions.

A less expensive and more practical solution would be to incorporate a 'safety-device' coupled with the EGPWS and the altimeter (like the EFA has) that takes over control from the pilot and corrects the A/C if it sees a conflict (advanced TCAS/EGPWS/AP type system) and therefore would prevent (via software) an A/C decending below a preset altitude in a software defined red area, (ie FL30 in NYC) such as urban cities if not on ILS LOC.

More of a problem on Boeing than Airbus but not impossible.

Only a thought!

[flypastpastfast]

No easy solution to this, but thread has moved a bit off aviation isues. FMC is on the right lines regarding 'unbreachable' controlled airspace.

[spagiola]

Going back to the original topic of this thread, latest news reports say that all but one of the people arrested yesterday at LGA and JFK have been released.

[driftwood]

This is every Arabs response to Americas financing of Israel. The IRA are also financed from the same source.

[Lockstitch]

Tower Dog -You are a bloodthirsty swine sir,its not the bobbys fault if those invited for interview trip over steps and bounce off a wall or two.

[cosmo kramer]

TowerDog:
Fourth Degree coming up.....No silk gloves or human rights lawyers needed down at the station tonight. Wish I was there.

Wino:
The countries that support this crap have just lost their mandate to exist.[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree.

[J-Class]

FYI, there follows an eyewitness account of a passenger on one of the two planes held back yesterday which was forwarded to me today. The gentleman in question was going to LAX on his way to SYD.

Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: Flying out of JFK was a mistake. period.


Okay.

Whoever told me I was sane in trying to fly out of JFK today should be
spanked.

I just had a thoroughly unsatisfactory air travel experience.

After hours of delayed flights, throughout which they assured us that we
would get to board our plane, we boarded. I sat, I chatted, I offered to
translate for the stranded Chinese woman behind me who spoke no English.

We waited and waited. 4 oclock had passed in the lobby (they told us the
flight crew was being briefed on new security measures). 5 oclcok passed on
the plane. and 6 and 7 oclock.

then at about 7:30 the pilot told us we were fine - we had finally mad
clearance and we were ready to go.

8 o clock - the back door to the plane silently opened and 15-20 SWAT team
members entered the plane, led by plane people. They screamed at u s " HEADS
DOWN" and rushed the plane with huge (rambo-sized) weapons and rushed
through the plane. They grabbed a guy ahead of me - a guy I had noticed on
the entry ramp (an Indian guy - sketchily claimed to only speak gujarati but
insisted his was a dialect nobody would know, also cliamed to speak some
chinese, hence my interest) . They cuffed him as he screamed and carried him
out over our heads. The same guy had deposited his luggage in separate parts
throughout the main cabin of the plane (aka 'economy section'). We kept
trying to look up but kept getting shouted down by hardcore no joke SWATy
people. They were all 'keep your heads down - you, keep your head down !
keep your baby down!' ) . vscary.

then we waited and stressed as they lesiurely removed the guys alleged
luggage. then, ten minutes later, they let us off the plane and revealed
that JFK had been closed for hours and all flights grounded, waiting for us.

It turns out 4 (four!) people were pulled off my plane from JFK. That is, as
they say in the spy business, a full cell of hijackers. Stressy stress.

Then I turned around and went home. Bringing with me a british lass (hi
sally!) i met on the plane and who had been stranded in a JFK ramada for
three days waiting for flight and sleeping on a red cross cot. also i ran
into a requisite yalie. also i am not sure about flying about the moment,
the country seems a bit, ah , scary right now.

But i am fine again - much more rattled. the SWAT team has big big guns.

Big guns.

After the fact I asked a cop what had happened. he said, and i quote "there
may have been some very very bad people on your plane".
Which is not exactly reassuring.

Australia? Hmm.

Best from my sanctum sanctorum in Brooklyn.

Cheers
PT

[Ignition Override]

Tonight on our local (US) NBC tv station or on CNN, we learned that all of those pilots at JFK or wherever had been released, and really are pilots. One guy reportedly had his brother's identification card?

Despite the sizeable network which supported the attacks on the Pentagon and New York City, the horrible Oklahoma City bombing was the work of a Caucasian American (from upstate New York), the recently executed Timothy McVay, who was an Army soldier in Desert Storm (he later applied to the Green Berets). In the long run, could it be some of our home-grown Anglo-Saxon (anti-government) types who might be the most dangerous, because they never stand out in a crowd?

Don't get me wrong, but many of us jumped to the wrong conclusions right after the OK. City destruction.

Off the topic, but we live in a society which expects and demands not only instant arrests but results for everything, yet in a covert war, which might be a more appropriate but less rewarding response than a large, conventional attack against the wrong people (who are left behind when the bad guys scatter to caves...), we might not want the public to be aware of how ruthless these conflicts can be. A large body count fooled McNamara during Viet Nam: he believed that numbers of enemy dead equated to victory. As for surgical strikes, have you ever seen Harrison Ford in the movie which is based on a Tom Clancy book, in which some CIA personnel watch a night SAS attack on a North African desert training camp, hoping to zap some IRA murderers, transmitted via infrared? "Patriot Games"? We might need all of our Navy Seals, Green Berets, Delta Force (Red Cell?), the SAS and Mossad, possibly the Speznaz and many others, all working together, at least as the initial operation.

[SunSeaSandfly]

Ignition
You are a very naughty boy. You are not suggesting that we might expect to see (or rather, not see) the sudden disappearance of the odd Talibandsman, or others, merely because they harbor, support or encourage terrorists? :eek:
Good grief, this is tantamount to, erm....,war.

Clear targets, minimum colateral, tempting,tempting.